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Return of Ford Nation
- Thread starter Baggsy
- Start date
its a hail mary.
and
realistically it only covers day care for 1.5 year (for 2.5 y-old to kindergarten, which is 4 y-old) so although it's a really nice savings it's going to do 2 things
- clog up the system like quebec city where you can be waiting years before you can get daycare (subsidized, not free)
- push prices up on other non-licensed daycares when panick catches on that there are not spots available in the licensed ones.
I know at our daycare that the subsidized kids bring less money in to the daycare than the full fare kids. If this one window were subsidized, the price of daycare for <2.5 years old and after school care for >4 years old would have to increase to compensate. Most families would likely come out spending almost the same amount of money over the life of their child while at the same time the government spent billions.
EDIT:
And my point assumes there are available spots. You are correct, availability will be even worse.
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dieselxx
Well-known member
It is a hail mary I agree. Spots are already difficult to get. I have been waiting years as it is, and never heard back from 5+ daycares. Luckily my wife while off with the baby would visit the daycare a block away from my house. That is how we got in, by interacting with the staff. Otherwise tough luck.....
Needless to say it cost us $2300 a month for the first year at the City of Toronto run daycare. It is now $2000/month(toddler now) and soon to be (1800$/month) as she moves to preschool room. That payment plus mortgage is more than half of my salary (Electrician)
Needless to say that's a boat load of money to be dropping every year (24 grand). To top it off we are not eligible for a rebate from any of the governments (rejected because of our income). It's been 15years in power while all the time the middle class have been struggling with daycare, and now you want to pay for it. Can only claim $8000 on the taxes at the end of the year but that goes to the wifey.
Sorry Wynne! I'm not looking for your pity handout
at the last minute, because you know you are clinging on to your power.I do believe it should have some sort of subsidy as child care costs are nuts, but not a full payout as she is suggesting. The really low income families receive subsidies, and I am cool with that. However, if middle class are paying full pop, that does'nt necessarily leave them in a good situation either.
The system is a failure.
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
Anything is possible, investors like the best odds so unless there are advantages to Kingston -- it's not going to happen over the GTA. Transportation isn't the biggie, it's proximity to suppliers and services, and most important you must have access to the skills needed to run your business.
Yeah right, money from where.
Riceburner
Well-known member
from the kids that are attending daycare of course......they pay in 20 years, just like everything else.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
My kids are way past daycare age. When they were small, daycare was largely a network of work at home moms that charged reasonable rates. Parents had the responsibility for due diligence -- we would drop in, talk with other parents, ask out kids about their day. A mom working from home made a decent full time wage -- more than if she was employed at a daycare today. 20 years ago this cost $75 to $150/week. Caregivers earned cash, they paid no taxes.It is a hail mary I agree. Spots are already difficult to get. I have been waiting years as it is, and never heard back from 5+ daycares. Luckily my wife while off with the baby would visit the daycare a block away from my house. That is how we got in, by interacting with the staff. Otherwise tough luck.....
Needless to say it cost us $2300 a month for the first year at the City of Toronto run daycare. It is now $2000/month(toddler now) and soon to be (1800$/month) as she moves to preschool room. That payment plus mortgage is more than half of my salary (Electrician)
Needless to say that's a boat load of money to be dropping every year (24 grand). To top it off we are not eligible for a rebate from any of the governments (rejected because of our income). It's been 15years in power while all the time the middle class have been struggling with daycare, and now you want to pay for it. Can only claim $8000 on the taxes at the end of the year but that goes to the wifey.
Sorry Wynne! I'm not looking for your pity handout
I do believe it should have some sort of subsidy as child care costs are nuts, but not a full payout as she is suggesting. The really low income families receive subsidies, and I am cool with that. However, if middle class are paying full pop, that does'nt necessarily leave them in a good situation either.
The system is a failure.
Then came McGinty and a mountain of regulation that destroyed the home based service that had been working well for decades. Their solution was to commercialize daycare using the public school model. JK and full day Kindergarten cost $6,500 for 40 weeks (paid through your taxes), and institutionalized daycare. By altering a system that was already working, they made daycare harder to find AND they increased average from $75/week to $450/week
This is a good read for those who like to go back in time. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/020426/dq020426a-eng.htm
A practical solution might be to hand daycare back to parents and community organizations, as it was done pre-McGinty.
JTR
Well-known member
I've been seeing these attempts to buy votes popping up in news feeds for atleast the last week, she's been spending somewhere around 2 billion dollars a day on average I think.
Question, who issues the credit that the government uses to go into debt? Because I'd think that she should have been cut off some time ago.
Question, who issues the credit that the government uses to go into debt? Because I'd think that she should have been cut off some time ago.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
There is no real limit, gov'ts borrow money based on their ability to pay it back. When the risk of payback increases, so does the cost of credit.
Ontario has lots of credit available, they's not the issue. The issue is she is spending your money (the taxpayer) like a drunken sailor. At some point you have to say stop -- voters will do that before creditors. If it happens the other way around, we join the 3rd world.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think Wynne knows she's past the Hail Mary stage... now she's throwing stinkbombs. Stinkbomb promises are ones intended to be messy and expensive for the new gov't to manage or repeal -- gives Liberals something to talk about post election.
Sometimes when I go through the city I wonder if we are in a 3rd world country already...........................
dieselxx
Well-known member
Back in the 80s when I was a small child, my mother was able to stay home with three kids until we were all of school age. My father only worked. The 1 income was enough to feed us, pay for house, and buy more properties. Those days are long gone my friends. Unless 1 earner is pulling in 200gs a year, maybe 1 parent can stay home and take care of kids. That's part of the problem imo
I have friends who's wives stay home because it's not worth it for them to go to work and pay for daycare. They're surviving though lol.
The sad thing is the younger generation will be paying for this or us in our taxes. Most don't see this and just see the "free" daycare. It's a sly move on her part.
She/Libs had 15 years to do something....NOW they realize there's a problem? Where is the money going to come from? My A** has been both lubed and taken dry too many times already lol there's no money left in there ☺
I also don't believe people with no kids should be fronting the full bill for people with children either.
Announcing money here, money there, and spending like a drunken cowboy in a saloon ain't gonna cut it. I see through those games already. It's a last ditch effort on her part.
I have friends who's wives stay home because it's not worth it for them to go to work and pay for daycare. They're surviving though lol.
The sad thing is the younger generation will be paying for this or us in our taxes. Most don't see this and just see the "free" daycare. It's a sly move on her part.
She/Libs had 15 years to do something....NOW they realize there's a problem? Where is the money going to come from? My A** has been both lubed and taken dry too many times already lol there's no money left in there ☺
I also don't believe people with no kids should be fronting the full bill for people with children either.
Announcing money here, money there, and spending like a drunken cowboy in a saloon ain't gonna cut it. I see through those games already. It's a last ditch effort on her part.
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Please explain to me why I should subsidize for your daycare so you can have more discretionary money.
How in the ****** are you subsidizing it? His kids are subsidizing it. You're paying for Trudeau Sr.'s and the last few Ontario & municipal governments' expensive tastes.
H
dieselxx
Well-known member
See above post 394#...I said I don't believe in people with no kids paying for us with kids. Also said I don't want her pity handout now.
Also by stating numbers I was just putting it out there what alot of people pay and that it's not sustainable for most
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Mad Mike
Well-known member
The secret to this is deregulation. Roll things back 20 years to parents could stay at home by taking a few daycare kids. Give parents back the responsibility for vetting their care givers and their facilities. That will help the supply problem, which should bring rates down. If they got tho the same relative rated that had in 2000, daycare could cost about $200 a week.
Imagine a young parent that makes $20/hr and has 1 child. They would take home around $650/week from a normal office job. Day care costs costs $200/week so there is $450 left over. Say that parent stays home and takes in 3 children @ $200/week each. He/She is working from home making almost the same as if when went to the office, AND she has more disposable income -- $600/week. Everybody wins.
That's how it used to work, I don't remember any of my friends having trouble finding sports for their kids -- most of our friends had trouble finding 3 clients when they wanted to stay home.
Now there will be naysayers claiming there is no safety without regulation. They may be right, but I can tell you from experience that was never an issue -- in fact I think kids did better in a proper home with a parent and 3-4 kids rather than in an institutional pen with 15 kids and 2 paid sitters.
Imagine a young parent that makes $20/hr and has 1 child. They would take home around $650/week from a normal office job. Day care costs costs $200/week so there is $450 left over. Say that parent stays home and takes in 3 children @ $200/week each. He/She is working from home making almost the same as if when went to the office, AND she has more disposable income -- $600/week. Everybody wins.
That's how it used to work, I don't remember any of my friends having trouble finding sports for their kids -- most of our friends had trouble finding 3 clients when they wanted to stay home.
Now there will be naysayers claiming there is no safety without regulation. They may be right, but I can tell you from experience that was never an issue -- in fact I think kids did better in a proper home with a parent and 3-4 kids rather than in an institutional pen with 15 kids and 2 paid sitters.
I love the idea
But the world is more ****ed up. People don't look into other people's business. People pay less attention to their "jobs" and responsibilities. I was lucky, we found a home daycare at reasonable price for my 1st kid who ended up with the good ol' scenario of a mom who didn't go back to work after her 2nd kid. With my now 2nd one, we're looking at options now and it's a freak show. Even if they're licensed, doesn't mean you can trust them either. The bigger "pens" cost 3/4 of my mortgage to watch my kid.......... and that doesn't include pre and after school care for the older one.
Yes something should be done, but what she's offering isn't the solution.
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