Quick write offs | GTAMotorcycle.com

Quick write offs

bigpoppa

bigpoppa

Well-known member
Is it just me or does it seem like even the most minor damage to bikes leads to them getting branded or labelled irreparable or deemed salvage?

Seeing a bunch of 'rebuilds' and in most cases it seems like the damage is very minor or cosmetic. In rare instances the builder isnt some annoying youtube influencer, and can actually ride quick, and knows what he's talking about and even then it seems like the bike hes rebuilding is for the most part in good shape (some damaged cosmetic plastic here, a foot peg there)

Why are bikes that are easily fixable so quick to be branded?
 
Financial loss, and total loss are two different things.

Factory plastic is expensive.

Add in the labor cost to bolt on simple body panels, and it often exceeds the worth of the bike.

Any frame damage, even a scuff, and its considered a write off. "Structurally compromised".


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I had someone run me off the road 10 years ago.

Bike was a financial loss.

It wasn't worth it for them to send a tow truck, send it to auction, pay the fees to sell it off for minimal $.

Cheaper to let me buy it back for next to nothing.

I bought a parts bike, and some parts off e-bay, and rode my "free bike" for another 5 years.

They paid me off $3500, let me keep the bike for $350 or so. I spent about a grand on parts and the parts bike.


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Check the parts fiche for a theoretical front-end collision on something as pedestrian as a Ninja 650:

Blackfoot Motosports Online | Calgary Motorcycle Dealership

Shop premium motorcycle, dirt bike motocross, atv/utv, ebike apparel, parts, accessories and more.Free shipping in Canada over $48
partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com

front wheel: $700
forks: $1300/pair
triple tree upper & lower: $700
handlebar and throttle assembly: $170
headlight bracket: $190
headlight assembly: $950
replacement fairings for one side: $450+
foot peg bracket: $300

That gets you close to half the MSRP of a new bike. Then add shop labour, which I'm guessing is probably close to $150/hour these days? Just removing and replacing fairings on an undamaged bike can take most of an hour. A complete new frame is only $1500, but the shop labour to swap everything onto it would be eye-watering.

From a safety standpoint, something like bent forks are relatively easy to replace or even straighten, but would a typical dealer mechanic/shop even have the setup to verify whether something vital like the steering head was bent? In terms of liability to the shop and insurance company, it's safer for everyone to just write it off if there's any damage to the forks.
 
If you DIY and are patient you can often find deals to get your ride back on the road.

For a dealer shop:

They aren't going to spend days searching listings for used fairings unless they get paid for the time. Will some fasteners be missing? The lack of interchangeability on bikes astounds me. Aftermarket parts may not fit well.

The fairing looks perfect except for the critical broken tab.

The fairings have to be perfect, not a scratch or the customer might complain. Why worry about the complaint?

Their shop space is tied up for the duration (Months) and they can't normally bill until completion. The bike may be in pieces and pieces get lost, starting a new search.

When I repaired small tools every tool went into a plastic tote box with accessories. As it was disassembled all parts went into the tote. Everything was in the same place. It's a lot harder with a bike.

As the process drags out both sides get tired of the "How's it coming?" phone calls.
 
Neither the owner or the shop gets to decide whether to repair or replace, that's up to the insurance company's adjusters and appraisers.
Often, by the time you factor in towing and storage costs (which the shop is entitled to charge while the bureaucrats drag their feet) it isn't worth it to do anything except cut the cheque and move along. I've seen it go both ways - repair something that was a p.o.s. and should have gone in the dumpster or write off a cosmetic, often minor accident. Insurance companies are run by bean counters not enthusiasts.
 
My ZX-4RR got written off due to a dog and a low side, main reason was a scratch and a what a technician deemed an “apparent” bend to the rear subframe. On the ZX-4 the rear subframe is welded to the frame, add to that a scratch on the tank and other minor stuff that adds up real quick when insurance has to make the bike as it was before. I think the bill from the shop to fix it minus the subframe “damage” was around 7500$
 
Asked about buying it back and insurance wanted way too much for a bike with a branded title
 
Dakath said:
My ZX-4RR got written off due to a dog and a low side, main reason was a scratch and a what a technician deemed an “apparent” bend to the rear subframe. On the ZX-4 the rear subframe is welded to the frame, add to that a scratch on the tank and other minor stuff that adds up real quick when insurance has to make the bike as it was before. I think the bill from the shop to fix it minus the subframe “damage” was around 7500$
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I think this is a big part of the current problem. There are no repairs anymore, just parts replacement. Straightening a rear subframe would be far cheaper and faster than replacing a full frame and imo, most of the time, that would be an entirely acceptable repair.
 
GreyGhost said:
I think this is a big part of the current problem. There are no repairs anymore, just parts replacement. Straightening a rear subframe would be far cheaper and faster than replacing a full frame and imo, most of the time, that would be an entirely acceptable repair.
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Strange, since they allow frame repairs on cars.
 
Relax said:
Strange, since they allow frame repairs on cars.
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I think it’s a liability thing (or at least that’s what it sounded like when the tech was taking me through the damage) considering the bike was brand new and I took it to the dealer for repair
 
Dakath said:
I think it’s a liability thing (or at least that’s what it sounded like when the tech was taking me through the damage) considering the bike was brand new and I took it to the dealer for repair
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Yup ^^^. My BMW XR was deemed a total loss (not branded) but the repair bill was similar to the vehicle worth so they paid me out. I asked to buy it back but they wouldn't allow it because of the amount of repair "damage" stating they don't because of liability.
 
There was time, pre 2003 or so, when "write off" bikes went to public auction. That ended and you had to be a licensed dealer to buy them... or they got shipped to Quebec.
You can still buy them as part of YOUR insurance payout, you pay the same as a wrecker would... but on popular bikes (that are in demand) the insurance will want an auction to maximize return... like u/Hardwrkr's Bemmer... BUT if you INSIST they will sell it to you
I used to buy and repair "write offs"
 
bitzz said:
There was time, pre 2003 or so, when "write off" bikes went to public auction. That ended and you had to be a licensed dealer to buy them... or they got shipped to Quebec.
You can still buy them as part of YOUR insurance payout, you pay the same as a wrecker would... but on popular bikes (that are in demand) the insurance will want an auction to maximize return... like u/Hardwrkr's Bemmer... BUT if you INSIST they will sell it to you
I used to buy and repair "write offs"
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Cosmetic write offs perhaps, but when I tried buy my car back after being rear ended they said it was structural so off to the wreckers.
The body shop could have repaired it, and for what the insurance paid out I would have been out of pocket about a grand.
Instead I had to go hunting and buy another car, for significantly more.
 
The problem is when YOU buy back your car/bike during the insurance payout process, it doesn't get branded.
When the insurance company takes possession of your bike, it gets branded.
If you agree to buy back your car/bike AND HAVE IT BRANDED, you can buy it back... but then the insurance company is opening themselves to the liability that your branded bike is worth less than an un-branded bike... which will go no where in court, but will cost many thousands of dollars to defend in court... it's just easier to say NO.
TK4 said:
The body shop could have repaired it,
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The body shop MAY be able to repair it, BUT can said body shop insure/attest that it was fixed to OEM/stock level?
NO they can't... not without REPLACING the frame with an original, undamaged one... as an original undamaged frame is the only one certified by it's manufacture and SAE. As soon as you put a torch or welder to the frame that certification is out the window.
You repair the car/bike, then get into another collision, the other party can say the repair caused the subsequent collision... which gets everyone that touched the car/bike named in the suit: you, the insurer, the shop, the store that supplied the welder to that shop, the school that taught the welder of that shop... EVERYONE.
No thank you.
If you're in the business, you've seen some truly awful and dangerous repairs
 
bitzz said:
The problem is when YOU buy back your car/bike during the insurance payout process, it doesn't get branded.
When the insurance company takes possession of your bike, it gets branded.
If you agree to buy back your car/bike AND HAVE IT BRANDED, you can buy it back... but then the insurance company is opening themselves to the liability that your branded bike is worth less than an un-branded bike... which will go no where in court, but will cost many thousands of dollars to defend in court... it's just easier to say NO.

The body shop MAY be able to repair it, BUT can said body shop insure/attest that it was fixed to OEM/stock level?
NO they can't... not without REPLACING the frame with an original, undamaged one... as an original undamaged frame is the only one certified by it's manufacture and SAE. As soon as you put a torch or welder to the frame that certification is out the window.
You repair the car/bike, then get into another collision, the other party can say the repair caused the subsequent collision... which gets everyone that touched the car/bike named in the suit: you, the insurer, the shop, the store that supplied the welder to that shop, the school that taught the welder of that shop... EVERYONE.
No thank you.
If you're in the business, you've seen some truly awful and dangerous repairs
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Not sure on the exact specifics of how they determined value and all that, but if I agreed to buy my bike back (with branded title) the overall payout would have been less then if I didn’t buy the bike back. Example is I got payed out 10K minus deductible, if I bought the bike back I would have been payed out 8K minus deductible and the buy back amount.
 
bitzz said:
There was time, pre 2003 or so, when "write off" bikes went to public auction. That ended and you had to be a licensed dealer to buy them... or they got shipped to Quebec.
You can still buy them as part of YOUR insurance payout, you pay the same as a wrecker would... but on popular bikes (that are in demand) the insurance will want an auction to maximize return... like u/Hardwrkr's Bemmer... BUT if you INSIST they will sell it to you
I used to buy and repair "write offs"
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i don’t think the licence requirement is regulation, it’s just the practice they choose.

If you want to buy crashes vehicles from Copart, Impact auctions etc, you don’t need a dealer licence, you do need to have an Ontario RIN number.

Buying and fixing crashed bikes without an Omvic dealers licence is considered curbsiding in Ontario. I used to pickup the odd bike from both, until I got the call from OMVIC.

With virtually no profit in fixing crashed bikes, fixing and selling is not worth the risk as OMVIC penalties can be stiff.

Buying crashed bikes for your own use is different, you can save a lot if you’re willing to throw time at a personal project.
 
Dakath said:
Not sure on the exact specifics of how they determined value and all that, but if I agreed to buy my bike back (with branded title) the overall payout would have been less then if I didn’t buy the bike back. Example is I got payed out 10K minus deductible, if I bought the bike back I would have been payed out 8K minus deductible and the buy back amount.
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Since the rear subframe is attached to the main frame, that's why they branded it as salvage.

@V-Tom s wife had a Triumph Tiger that had a minor spill, and was written off this way. Her rear peg mount is solid welded to the subframe, which is attached to the main frame. Structural damage that could have been twisted back with a wrecking bar... b.s.

My old vtr1000f was a "financial loss", not a branded "total loss". It was bought back for under $400, with no brand and I fixed it with e-bay parts.

Cheap old bike, compared to a brand new zx4rr.

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When I bought the 2015 DL650 from impact the estimate was 9K I guessed $700 to fix but needed a headlight so $1200 to repair all in for $2000

If the vehicle is under two years old insurance must replace with new parts.

Also my neighbour had a spill on his R6 Raven edition. Estimate was $7500. All cosmetic. When he asked about buying it back they told him they would not insure it unless all the repairs had been done to the estimate with receipts. The adjuster told him to cancel the claim and just fix it his way. Still has the bike. Total was under $500 and bike has some dings and scratches still.
 
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