Not sure if police officer liked my dash cam | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Not sure if police officer liked my dash cam

They need NOT prove there was anything on the SD or that the camera was even operating. Your living in a fantasy land if you think that. ALL that has to be proven LEGALLY is the officer had "reasonable and probable" grounds to believe the item contained evidence and that YOU destroyed that evidence. That is the "elements of the offence"

I have previously laid a charge in a similar, (not an SD card but a small video camera tape). The accused argued that there was no proof of what was contained on the item they destroyed. The crown merely asked one question. "Then explain to the court why you took the actions you did" The accused said "because I felt like doing it, it wasn't meant to destroy any evidence as there was no evidence of anything to be destroyed"

In his ruling the judge wrote, the accused simply can not be believed in this case, there is no REASONABLE explaination as to why the item was destroyed other than to conceal the evidence of his illegal actions. Therefore a conviction will be entered. Had he not destroyed the evidence the orginal charge likely would have resulted in a small fine. Instead The judge stated that the accused had tried to subvert the justice system with his intentional actions to avoid prosecution and the resulting fine was $1500, as well as 1 year probation.

And yes they will go that far for a relatively minor infraction because you have shown your willingness to hide something, They have no idea of what was on the evidence it could show you committing a MUCH more serious crime. After all who in their right mind is going to swallow an SD card to hide a traffic offence?

So not worth it.. But enjoy your meal..lol

Splash said:
First they would have to prove the camera was on (easy to reach down and unplug it), then prove that there was a SD card in the camera (easy to remove the SD card and swallow it) then prove that it recorded the incident.

We are also talking about a traffic ticket... not a criminal charge. You think they'll go through all that for a traffic ticket?

Like I said, Good luck.
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All of this circular arguing...it's pointless.

You can easily "lose" the SD card or encrypt it and "forget" the password...unless you talk yourself into trouble by admitting you're obstructing justice on purpose there isn't much they can do.

In hedo2002's example above the accused admitted (or performed in such a way that it was obvious that) he destroyed the tape.

The police are more than willing to lie in court if it will help get convictions for HTA offences and generate revenue for their salaries...there is no reason you should feel bad about saying whatever will ensure you aren't convicted if you do happen to get in trouble.

You may need two lawyers - the one who you ask how to lie effectively, and the one you hire to help you with the trial...if you tell a lawyer you plan to lie under oath they are ethically obligated not to put you on the stand...well maybe if you get a shady one...

If you're planning to engage in shenanigans and get away with it...ask yourself...are you smarter than the cops and the crown? Unless the answer is a resounding "yes", maybe you should just behave.
 
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No in your first example you stated you could "swallow" the SD losing it, is a different kettle of fish. How does a police officer establish you had the card to begin with? They can't therefore, no gorunds for a charge of obstructing.

If the card is password protected then the officer will seek a search warrant to compel you to provide the password. If you state that you "forget the password", (which means your failing to comply with a court order, namely the search warrant). They then have grounds to arrest you and bring you before a judge who will then direct you to provide the password. Should you fail to comply with the judges order... YOUR assuming that your smarter than the court and can play little games with those of lesser intellect. Then the judge has the option to declare you in contempt of court, and that you be held in custody until such time as you comply with the courts order.

But if someone has merely recorded a simple infraction are they going to go to these extremes just to avoid the "officers of the court" from viewing the video?

Your playing silly little "what if" which truly have no foundation in law. I mean what if the camera never had an sd card? What if the sky collapsed and killed everyone before the officer could access the sd card?

Bottom line is no matter how you want to percieve it the officer will gain access to the card lawfully, (as long as they follow the rules), either a search warrnat for a password protected card. Evidence is evidence and you can't make up your own rules to suit your vision of how things should go, (solely in your favor).

Rob and I have attempted, (with at least one of us having actual real world law and court experience), to show that your view is incorrect. I am confident in my position if your as confident in yours then test it out next time your stopped. After your release from custody tell us how wrong we were...lol

nm1 said:
All of this circular arguing...it's pointless.

You can easily "lose" the SD card or encrypt it and "forget" the password...unless you talk yourself into trouble by admitting you're obstructing justice on purpose there isn't much they can do.

In hedo2002's example above the accused admitted (or performed in such a way that it was obvious that) he destroyed the tape.

The police are more than willing to lie in court if it will help get convictions for HTA offences and generate revenue for their salaries...there is no reason you should feel bad about saying whatever will ensure you aren't convicted if you do happen to get in trouble.

You may need two lawyers - the one who you ask how to lie effectively, and the one you hire to help you with the trial...if you tell a lawyer you plan to lie under oath they are ethically obligated not to put you on the stand...well maybe if you get a shady one...

If you're planning to engage in shenanigans and get away with it...ask yourself...are you smarter than the cops and the crown? Unless the answer is a resounding "yes", maybe you should just behave.
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If the card is password protected then the officer will seek a search warrant to compel you to provide the password. If you state that you "forget the password", (which means your failing to comply with a court order, namely the search warrant). They then have grounds to arrest you and bring you before a judge who will then direct you to provide the password. Should you fail to comply with the judges order... YOUR assuming that your smarter than the court and can play little games with those of lesser intellect. Then the judge has the option to declare you in contempt of court, and that you be held in custody until such time as you comply with the courts order.
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Maybe - but only until holding you doesn't increase the likelyhood of you complying...eg: the court accepts that you did indeed forget, you weren't making it up.

You LEOs are pretty hilarious at times...if anyone points out the simple reality that if you are clever you can easily skirt around a lot of the tactics you employ you immediately respond.

I have my own personal experience with the system and am close to people within it...not going to elaborate on that.

The bottom line is: you trying to intimidate people into not having dash cams is obviously the slant of your comments here...my response is: tough ****, we will record you, you're not getting away with poor job performance or not following procedure.

I would say I agree though people who think they could just eat the SD card or destroy it in view of an officer...come on...if you're going to dream of getting away with criminal activity at least be realistic about it.

Not all ******** is created equal

"I haven't accessed the camera's memory card in 2 years and I don't remember what the password was."

Is a lot different from

"I really like the taste of SD cards and I eat when I'm stressed out"
 
The fact still remains that I have never seen a dash cam (or sports cam) that has a password protection feature and no one has countered with anything that says otherwise, so it's a moot point.
 
I love my dash cam, I was pulled over today DWB detained, arrested, threatened with harassment in the future at my place of employment then with harm. After request to contact council was denied, released charge free. Keep your dash cam running!
 
Rob MacLennan said:
The fact still remains that I have never seen a dash cam (or sports cam) that has a password protection feature and no one has countered with anything that says otherwise, so it's a moot point.
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Many cams integrate with Android phones (GoPro being one of them) and SD encryption/protection is a built-in feature on that platform.

It took 5 mins of googling to find easy ways to protect your media files...that's why I didn't bother responding to you on that.
 
nm1 said:
Many cams integrate with Android phones (GoPro being one of them) and SD encryption/protection is a built-in feature on that platform.

It took 5 mins of googling to find easy ways to protect your media files...that's why I didn't bother responding to you on that.
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Really? Do you have an example? I saw plenty of Android Apps that act as a form of dashcam, but no dashcams that link to Android devices. Even so that would presume that you have that second device, and that the camera doesn't also hold the same data.
 
Firstly I am no longer on active duty so I have no issue with you recording me..lol

But you went on to "accuse" me of "trying to intimidate" people into noit having dash cams. Please feel free where I ever posted that people shouldn't have a dashcam, or even record an officer. Unlike you I am open minded. I could care less, if someone recorded me when on duty. Again, I will point out a huge flaw in your logic. I actually have a go pro that I use as a dashcam, both in my cage and on my bike, but I guess that isn't possible seeing that I am so anti dash cam.

Your assertion is that officers don't want to be recorded because they are "not going to get with poor job performance or not following procedure" is a HUGE assumption that most if not all officers don't do their jobs or follow procedure. If indeed you are close to people within the profession I am sure that they would be happy to know of your biased.

As Rob has pointed out, even using an android app which couples with the dash cam does NOT encrypt the media on the card. The phone IS/MAY be password protected, but the camera and the media card are not. So as Rob posted please feel free to post evidence to the contrary. A youtube video showing that the card is password protected, and therefore, can't be accessed.

Given that it is only the newer models, (Go pro) that are capable of recording loops, not having accessed the card in two years would mean you have recorded nothing, because the card would be full, and the camera will not actively record. I JUST tried it with a card which is full. But you are convinced that you are the only one who knows how the cameras work, and you have an answer, (albeit incorrect), for eveything. so good luck. Try taking your own advice "Be realistic"

It was you who presented intially the concept of "swallowing the sd card" when challenged and proven that this isn't a viable option then you attempted to change tactics to "I forgot the password"

Playing the system may work, but it may also backfire and result in a much more serious issue. Either way it won't impact me in the least how you choose to proceed, but sometimes realty bites...lol

nm1 said:
Maybe - but only until holding you doesn't increase the likelyhood of you complying...eg: the court accepts that you did indeed forget, you weren't making it up.

You LEOs are pretty hilarious at times...if anyone points out the simple reality that if you are clever you can easily skirt around a lot of the tactics you employ you immediately respond.

I have my own personal experience with the system and am close to people within it...not going to elaborate on that.

The bottom line is: you trying to intimidate people into not having dash cams is obviously the slant of your comments here...my response is: tough ****, we will record you, you're not getting away with poor job performance or not following procedure.

I would say I agree though people who think they could just eat the SD card or destroy it in view of an officer...come on...if you're going to dream of getting away with criminal activity at least be realistic about it.

Not all ******** is created equal

"I haven't accessed the camera's memory card in 2 years and I don't remember what the password was."

Is a lot different from

"I really like the taste of SD cards and I eat when I'm stressed out"
Click to expand...
 
hedo2002 said:
Firstly I am no longer on active duty so I have no issue with you recording me..lol

But you went on to "accuse" me of "trying to intimidate" people into noit having dash cams. Please feel free where I ever posted that people shouldn't have a dashcam, or even record an officer. Unlike you I am open minded. I could care less, if someone recorded me when on duty. Again, I will point out a huge flaw in your logic. I actually have a go pro that I use as a dashcam, both in my cage and on my bike, but I guess that isn't possible seeing that I am so anti dash cam.

Your assertion is that officers don't want to be recorded because they are "not going to get with poor job performance or not following procedure" is a HUGE assumption that most if not all officers don't do their jobs or follow procedure. If indeed you are close to people within the profession I am sure that they would be happy to know of your biased.

As Rob has pointed out, even using an android app which couples with the dash cam does NOT encrypt the media on the card. The phone IS/MAY be password protected, but the camera and the media card are not. So as Rob posted please feel free to post evidence to the contrary. A youtube video showing that the card is password protected, and therefore, can't be accessed.

Given that it is only the newer models, (Go pro) that are capable of recording loops, not having accessed the card in two years would mean you have recorded nothing, because the card would be full, and the camera will not actively record. I JUST tried it with a card which is full. But you are convinced that you are the only one who knows how the cameras work, and you have an answer, (albeit incorrect), for eveything. so good luck. Try taking your own advice "Be realistic"

It was you who presented intially the concept of "swallowing the sd card" when challenged and proven that this isn't a viable option then you attempted to change tactics to "I forgot the password"

Playing the system may work, but it may also backfire and result in a much more serious issue. Either way it won't impact me in the least how you choose to proceed, but sometimes realty bites...lol
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For clarification with respect to the encrypted/password protected recording I could certainly do it, but then again I'm a computer service/network tech with going on 30 years experience, who does digital photography on the side, and have been recording my commute for several years now. It wouldn't be "off the shelf."
 
I would like to interject my $0.02 on the issue of dashcams, as an LEO who is still active.

I encourage the use of dashcams in general. It is the only way to show unbiased evidence of what truly happened. Understanding of course, that not everything will be captured within the screenshot. My issue is this - have a camera facing forward to show the driving conditions (traffic, lane changes, etc) and know that if I can see it, it is subject to the plain view doctrine and could potentially be used as evidence. If it is reasonable to assume that you have captured evidence of an offence, your device and it's power cord could be seized. I will need a report to a justice and a search warrant to get the data, unless you consent.

By all means, have a second camera showing your interaction with the officer, including audio. This will protect both the driver and the officer in case something happens. I am all for this. The vast majority of the officers out there are doing their jobs the way they should be. And for those that aren't, they deserve to be caught. Keep the camera running.

Unfortunately, until our tech catches up, we cannot just seize the video at the roadside. We need the device itself to ensure that we have the evidence.

As Rob said, this is new and emerging case law, and needs to be tested in different ways to see what the limitations are.

Disclaimer: I've not yet dealt with video that wasn't voluntarily turned over to the police. I have, however, used a drivers' GPS to convict them of dangerous driving, following the procedure outlined above.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
For clarification with respect to the encrypted/password protected recording I could certainly do it, but then again I'm a computer service/network tech with going on 30 years experience, who does digital photography on the side, and have been recording my commute for several years now. It wouldn't be "off the shelf."
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Yes, of course we are talking about the "average everyday user"..lol.

But as you know if we have the ability to encrypt something, then someone else has the capabilities to open the encryption.

I love it when a buddy of mine who is on the job tells how people seem to think they are the first to "discover" the deep web and post stuff never thnking if I found it then can the cops find it? Or if I encrypt this file then no one can ever get into it. Organizations like Microsoft have depatments that work with law enforcement to give them capabilities well above what the average Joe can even dream of.
 
hedo2002 said:
It was you who presented intially the concept of "swallowing the sd card" when challenged and proven that this isn't a viable option then you attempted to change tactics to "I forgot the password"
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No, it wasn't...lol, I only chimed into this thread on the last page...I don't think digesting the evidence is a smart plan.

Playing the system may work, but it may also backfire and result in a much more serious issue. Either way it won't impact me in the least how you choose to proceed, but sometimes realty bites...lol
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I agree! It's best to avoid as much illegal activity as possible rather than counting on thwarting the attempts of LEOs to stop you....however people shouldn't be ashamed to use whatever means they need to try to stay out of trouble.


I am also in the computer/security industry...for me it would be somewhat trivial to write software that would capture and then encrypt files from a small camera...if you have any competence at all you could find a way to protect yourself in short order by searching....the whole "well I ain't seen no dashcam that encrypts" tells me you and Rob are probably just really old...;)
 
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nm1 said:
No, it wasn't...lol, I only chimed into this thread on the last page...I don't think digesting the evidence is a smart plan.



I agree! It's best to avoid as much illegal activity as possible rather than counting on thwarting the attempts of LEOs to stop you....however people shouldn't be ashamed to use whatever means they need to try to stay out of trouble.


I am also in the computer/security industry...for me it would be somewhat trivial to write software that would capture and then encrypt files from a small camera...if you have any competence at all you could find a way to protect yourself in short order by searching....the whole "well I ain't seen no dashcam that encrypts" tells me you and Rob are probably just really experienced...;)
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Fixed it for ya :)
 
nm1 said:
I am also in the computer/security industry...for me it would be somewhat trivial to write software that would capture and then encrypt files from a small camera...if you have any competence at all you could find a way to protect yourself in short order by searching....the whole "well I ain't seen no dashcam that encrypts" tells me you and Rob are probably just really old...;)
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And yet you still haven't seen fit to post information on a camera that encypts or that supports a camera that will dump to a phone, as you stated, without storing anything locally ;)
 
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nm1 said:
No, it wasn't...lol, I only chimed into this thread on the last page...I don't think digesting the evidence is a smart plan.



I agree! It's best to avoid as much illegal activity as possible rather than counting on thwarting the attempts of LEOs to stop you....however people shouldn't be ashamed to use whatever means they need to try to stay out of trouble.


I am also in the computer/security industry...for me it would be somewhat trivial to write software that would capture and then encrypt files from a small camera...if you have any competence at all you could find a way to protect yourself in short order by searching....the whole "well I ain't seen no dashcam that encrypts" tells me you and Rob are probably just really old...;)
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Well I can't speak inteligently as to Rob's age. But I am mature, (not really old), but with age also comes benefits like experience, (thanks Iceman), and wisdom.
 
hedo2002 said:
Well I can't speak inteligently as to Rob's age. But I am mature, (not really old), but with age also comes benefits like experience, (thanks Iceman), and wisdom.
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Well let's just say that while I was alive at the time, I didn't kill Kennedy.
 
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