Most of the people I hear it from, have been to the Dark Side. Some have lost good friends.
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New Riders...Start with a smaller bike!
- Thread starter arogal
- Start date
Most of the people I hear it from, have been to the Dark Side. Some have lost good friends.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Take it to the track and find out for yourself.
I've seen countless people on litre bikes rail down the straights like a missile, and park it in the corners... pulling like crazy on a 250 on any spot they can twist the throttle, but then 3 turns into the infield, the 250 is being held up by the litre bike.
Sure, the guy on the litre bike may grin like crazy putting on the power, but the 250 rider rides the bike to it's potential and makes better overall lap times.
So no, it's not all about hp/cc - unless you're a straight line hero.
mbroyda
Well-known member
Sure, but an inexperienced rider on a SS can get to the bleeding edge of being in control almost instantly, and then surpass it in the ever so subtle flick of the wrist, whereas a smaller bike is naturally more forgiving and might avoid that ride into and over the guardrail.
It's like the old mantra about 4 wheel drive vs 2 wheel drive trucks - they'll all get stuck at some point, but with the 4WD you're likely in a much worse situation (that's going to be a lot harder to get out of) before it happens.
Suggesting that a inexperienced rider is "fine" on a supersport is akin to suggesting that a inexperienced driver would be "fine" with something like a super high performance car. And then things like this happen when they don't have the ability to control the power - this wouldn't have happened in a 6 cylinder Mustang.
[video=youtube;w4OaQhyXJMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4OaQhyXJMA[/video]
not even close to the same thing, im assuming you've never ridden a SS
a Yamaha R6 makes about 100 - 110 hp, 50-60 of which are made above 9000rpm, and peak power is somewhere around 15000rpm, so it takes a bit of time to get from zero to "OMFG im gonna die", where a muscle cars rev range in MUCH narrower, they make linear power from around 2000rpm and hit peak power around 6000rpm, meaning you can get in trouble VERY fast.
But you're conflating skilled riders versus unskilled with fast versus slow bikes.
The guy on the 250 would probably have "more fun" on that track if he were on a 600 or 1000cc machine because he can corner fast (his ability) and be a missile down the straights (the bike's ability.)
And it's quite likely the guy on the litre bike wouldn't have as much fun if he were on a 250 since he still can't corner (his problem) but now can't even go fast (the bike's problem.)
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
You're basically agreeing with me - it's not hp/cc that really counts.
Go to a track day and have a look for yourself. Both straight line heroes and guys on 250's blitzing corners are really enjoying themselves.
When I was on my Daytona 675 I giggled like a schoolgirl when I passed BMW S1000rr's... I had an absolute blast. Would I have had more fun passing the BMW on my KTM? Not likely, but either way it would have been fun.
So to conclude, skilled riders on small cc bikes have a ton of fun riding the bike to its limits. Guys on large cc bikes without the skills have fun too, but not at all in the same fashion.
If somebody offered me a 250/300cc track bike for a session, I'd jump on it just to see what I could do with it. Ride a small cc bike to the limit. There's no way I could mask poor riding with high hp and application of throttle, which is pretty common in a whack of riders (I'm not an exception). I'd have to maximize my riding to keep my speed as high as possible.
So, riding a slower bike fast, passing higher hp/cc bikes would indeed be super fantastic.
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Roadghost
Well-known member
The bottom line: if someone is telling you it's okay to start riding on a 600cc bike you're getting bad advice.
--you will never learn the skills others do who own a smaller bike.
--You will never learn to control and manipulate the weight of a large bike the way you can with a smaller bike.
--It will take longer and be harder to learn how a bike behaves in tricky situations if it's a larger bike. The awkwardness and perceived unpredictability of a larger bike will then scare a new rider, often leading them to quit riding altogether.
Smaller 125-250cc bikes are the world's best selling. Don't let anyone talk you into getting anything larger than 250cc for a first bike unless you're a big dude (250lbs or more) who needs a 400cc.
--you will never learn the skills others do who own a smaller bike.
--You will never learn to control and manipulate the weight of a large bike the way you can with a smaller bike.
--It will take longer and be harder to learn how a bike behaves in tricky situations if it's a larger bike. The awkwardness and perceived unpredictability of a larger bike will then scare a new rider, often leading them to quit riding altogether.
Smaller 125-250cc bikes are the world's best selling. Don't let anyone talk you into getting anything larger than 250cc for a first bike unless you're a big dude (250lbs or more) who needs a 400cc.
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Who needs that much power ever on the street? I have a 675 on the street. It's needlessly excessive and almost pointless.
I have way more fun on my Ninja 250 on the track than I ever do on my "fast" bike in the street.
I was originally looking for a 650 because everyone I met told me I will outgrow a 250/300 quickly, until I discovered this forum and the threads about starter bikes.
Very happy with the 250 right now and I'm glad I listened to the advise from members on this forum. There were a few instances that I made a mistake and the nature of the 250 made it forgiving thus avoiding a crash/lowside.
Very happy with the 250 right now and I'm glad I listened to the advise from members on this forum. There were a few instances that I made a mistake and the nature of the 250 made it forgiving thus avoiding a crash/lowside.
My point is that had he been driving a Toyota Corolla (to use but one example, insert whatever run of the mill non high performance car you want) he would not have so easily got himself into a situation where the performance of the vehicle got him in over his head in a split second.
Riceburner
Well-known member
Not really...it's easy to get to OMFG on a SS really fast....
mbroyda
Well-known member
that all depends on what you consider OMFG, my point was that its easy to keep a bike under 9K rpm and that 600ss are harmless in that range they make the same amount of power as a 500, they start biting when you when you get closer to the power band.
600ss are NOT ideal for beginners, but they are also not the instant death machine some people portray them to be
Can't tell if you've beat the odds. Never seen you ride.
Do you ride the same way in traffic on the street? If so, then you haven't beat the odds yet. Otherwise, it doesn't help either.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Depends on your skill and bike...
I've seen people significantly slower dragging knee all over the place simply due to poor body position...
People with good body position are faster than those without.
So honestly, knee dragging means pretty much nothing until you've got decent skills.
mbroyda
Well-known member
how does one thrive ??
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