New Riders...Start with a smaller bike! | Page 15 | GTAMotorcycle.com

New Riders...Start with a smaller bike!

Forum Sponsor
PrivatePilot said:
You're dismissing the other very important side of the equation - torque. V-Twins have massive amounts of it. I can roll through a town with a 40kph speed limit just poking along in 5th gear and then roll into it and be doing 100+ again in no time flat without even touching the shifter.

The tractor trailer I drive daily has only 400HP (and 6 cylinders) to pull >80,000# of weight (most tractor trailers are similarly equipped, even ones pulling 140,000#+ loads), but the *torque* is what gets the job done.
Click to expand...

True, and I like big v-twins, but on a toy vehicle (as opposed to a heavy tow vehicle), being tuned for all torque and no hp seems silly to me. I would rather pull a bunch of weight out of toys and have similar performance. For example, Ape ETV 1000 makes same torque (~70 ft-lbs), 100 hp (instead of 60) and motor is 30% smaller (in swept volume). Exact same motor in RSV is less torque but way more hp (~160 IIRC). For a truck, having tons of torque and thumping along to achieve incredible lifespans make sense. How many people are putting 1,000,000+ km on a VTX? I would rather have it wound up a bit (a lot) so it only lasts 100,000 km, that's more than enough for that style of bike.

For me, on a toy, HP should be in the ballpark of engine size in litres * 100 or better. You can easily achieve this while still having tons of torque (if desired). Obviously if you sacrifice torque, you can get way more hp than this formula presents (such as the ninja 250 at 156), but that brings a different style of riding with tons of shifts to wring the neck of the motor.

EDIT: Forgot what thread we are in. 100 hp+ bikes for new riders aren't a great idea.
 
Last edited:
GreyGhost said:
True, and I like big v-twins, but on a toy vehicle (as opposed to a heavy tow vehicle), being tuned for all torque and no hp seems silly to me. I would rather pull a bunch of weight out of toys and have similar performance. For example, Ape ETV 1000 makes same torque (~70 ft-lbs), 100 hp (instead of 60) and motor is 30% smaller (in swept volume). Exact same motor in RSV is less torque but way more hp (~160 IIRC). For a truck, having tons of torque and thumping along to achieve incredible lifespans make sense. How many people are putting 1,000,000+ km on a VTX? I would rather have it wound up a bit (a lot) so it only lasts 100,000 km, that's more than enough for that style of bike.

For me, on a toy, HP should be in the ballpark of engine size in litres * 100 or better. You can easily achieve this while still having tons of torque (if desired). Obviously if you sacrifice torque, you can get way more hp than this formula presents (such as the ninja 250 at 156), but that brings a different style of riding with tons of shifts to wring the neck of the motor.
Click to expand...

Some of us like doing that :love4:
 
interesting thread, like a barometer of the site
folks telling others they're wrong about subjective things
not all members, a lot of good exchange of ideas as well
 
bigpoppa said:
Some of us like doing that :love4:
Click to expand...

That's why I didn't say it was wrong, just different. I want to like riding that way, but I have tried on the street and it just isn't for me. I think on a track I would love that style of riding.

I still want to try one of the 4 cylinder 250's and see if the sound is enough to cancel out the rest of their problems (pita to repair, not cheap, no torque).
 
If you have been around bikes long enough you'll remember when 70hp was GP bike. You could go cross country on a 350cc bike. To get 350hp out of a car engine was about 5k in specialty engine work (in 1976 dollars), now its an introductory mustang off the lot.
 
so in a nutshell :
"my toy is better than your toy"
"you bought the wrong toy"
"you shouldn't be playing with that toy"
"you don't know how to play with your toy"
"I learned how to play with my toy on YouTube"
"I play with my toy better than you play with your toy"
"Back in my day we had crappier toys"
 
mbroyda said:
so in a nutshell :
"my toy is better than your toy"
"you bought the wrong toy"
"you shouldn't be playing with that toy"
"you don't know how to play with your toy"
"I learned how to play with my toy on YouTube"
"I play with my toy better than you play with your toy"
"Back in my day we had crappier toys"
Click to expand...
Lol I'm dying. Very true.

There are guys who start on small bikes and will run head on into a curb, low side multiple times, drop it, you name it they do it with ease on repeat.

I wonder how much of the "start on a small bike you will be fine" plays into a false sense of security for new riders?

Also the same with possibly the guys who start on larger bikes having a sense of respect/fear for what the power can do, thus minimizing mistakes?

Personal opinion time, I think 90% of it comes down to the riders mental ability to maintain focus and composure when crap happens (hitting a bump in a turn, fighting target fixation, etc) and not so much the type of bike (of course there are exceptions, something very twitchy and unforgiving in low gears like an FZ-09).



Ps. mbroyda, my toy is better than your toy! Lol





Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk
 
mbroyda said:
so in a nutshell :
"my toy is better than your toy"
"you bought the wrong toy"
"you shouldn't be playing with that toy"
"you don't know how to play with your toy"
"I learned how to play with my toy on YouTube"
"I play with my toy better than you play with your toy"
"Back in my day we had crappier toys"
Click to expand...
Rofl! Sums it all up nicely. End thread.

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk
 
It's not the size of the toy it's how you play with it.

Starting with a smaller toy makes it easier and faster to learn to play with it.
 
I am starting on a HD 2012 Electra Glide. I wanted something which is versatile. Meaning once I get comfortable and learn to handle it properly, I want to get out and do some long cursing with it. Explore etc and be able to ride on the highway comfortably without having to fill up every hour as well. It has storage so I can put stuff like my camera, water, rain gear etc...And own the bike long enough to take the final M test. Buying a smaller learner bike and having to replace it in a month didn't seem convenient or practical to my needs.

Also my head is in this and I am not rushing out or doing more then I feel I can handle. I have just started to get out in real traffic since owning the bike mid Aug. Ya that has been a treat so far dealing with bad drivers. Being on a bike really brings out the **** heads. I swear they can't see indicator lights at all (I even double checked to makes sure mine all work).
 
mbroyda said:
so in a nutshell :
"my toy is better than your toy"
"you shouldn't be playing with that toy"
"you don't know how to play with your toy"
"I learned how to play with my toy on YouTube"
"I play with my toy better than you play with your toy"
Click to expand...

Baggsy said:
It's not the size of the toy it's how you play with it.

Starting with a smaller toy makes it easier and faster to learn to play with it.
Click to expand...

Is toy a code word for something?
 
sburns said:
I am starting on a HD 2012 Electra Glide. I wanted something which is versatile. Meaning once I get comfortable and learn to handle it properly, I want to get out and do some long cursing with it. Explore etc and be able to ride on the highway comfortably without having to fill up every hour as well. It has storage so I can put stuff like my camera, water, rain gear etc...And own the bike long enough to take the final M test. Buying a smaller learner bike and having to replace it in a month didn't seem convenient or practical to my needs.

Also my head is in this and I am not rushing out or doing more then I feel I can handle. I have just started to get out in real traffic since owning the bike mid Aug. Ya that has been a treat so far dealing with bad drivers. Being on a bike really brings out the **** heads. I swear they can't see indicator lights at all (I even double checked to makes sure mine all work).
Click to expand...

What's your definition of versatile?

PLau said:
Is toy a code word for something?
Click to expand...

Yes, motorcycle, but don't tell anyone, shhhh!
 
sburns said:
I am starting on a HD 2012 Electra Glide. I wanted something which is versatile. Meaning once I get comfortable and learn to handle it properly, I want to get out and do some long cursing with it. Explore etc and be able to ride on the highway comfortably without having to fill up every hour as well. It has storage so I can put stuff like my camera, water, rain gear etc...And own the bike long enough to take the final M test. Buying a smaller learner bike and having to replace it in a month didn't seem convenient or practical to my needs.

Also my head is in this and I am not rushing out or doing more then I feel I can handle. I have just started to get out in real traffic since owning the bike mid Aug. Ya that has been a treat so far dealing with bad drivers. Being on a bike really brings out the **** heads. I swear they can't see indicator lights at all (I even double checked to makes sure mine all work).
Click to expand...


Sorry Dude, wrong toy, see last 15 pages......
 
sburns said:
Nope.. why did you bother to post here.

Maybe you should review the last 15 pages yourself.
Click to expand...

bro, the Senior Membership has spoken
they've decided you're offside with numbers 2, 3, 4 and 6

proper course of action now is to lay low until you have a few thousand posts
then you can dump on new members with impunity


  1. "my toy is better than your toy"
  2. "you bought the wrong toy"
  3. "you shouldn't be playing with that toy"
  4. "you don't know how to play with your toy"
  5. "I learned how to play with my toy on YouTube"
  6. "I play with my toy better than you play with your toy"
  7. "Back in my day we had crappier toys"
 
To the argument that a bigger bike can roll around at 40kph in 5th gear all day: Where's the fun in that? Putputputputputput....braaaaaaaakes..... putputputputput.... Gearboxes are meant to be used. Some people actually enjoy shifting gears, and enjoy using more of their engine's potential than just above idle. I for one enjoy taking my bike through its rev range through all the gears.

I was stuck behind one of those guys today, on the typical harley with a vest and useless helmet. Going 25 in a 40 zone, didnt hear or see him change gears once. Go buy a Prius you turd.
 
JP0160 said:
To the argument that a bigger bike can roll around at 40kph in 5th gear all day: Where's the fun in that? Putputputputputput....braaaaaaaakes..... putputputputput.... Gearboxes are meant to be used. Some people actually enjoy shifting gears, and enjoy using more of their engine's potential than just above idle. I for one enjoy taking my bike through its rev range through all the gears.

I was stuck behind one of those guys today, on the typical harley with a vest and useless helmet. Going 25 in a 40 zone, didnt hear or see him change gears once. Go buy a Prius you turd.
Click to expand...

I had a bike once that could go all day in second gear. It would easily wind up to 120+ without shifting. It's all in the application. I don't see the reasoning behind lugging the engine in 5th, a stall could kill you.

Anyways, you can do a lot of cursing (sic) on a small bike, without filling up every hour, and be comfortable on the highway, it's up to the rider, not the bike.

p.s. I hate the superslab, every time I take the bike on it, I curse myself for not taking the cage.
Forum Sponsor
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom