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Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

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I agree that principles are important but when times are tight, they always fall back on the money issue.

I'm picking up on the latest comments about fairness. To charge 1 motorcycle a quarter of the price because its in a painted box, and the 1 10 m over full price because it isn't won't work. With that alone, will can compel them to use a 2 price structure machine across the entire City. That alone should put the price well above the revenue from bikes & hopefully get us back to free parking as the most financially viable option.
 
Face said:
I agree that principles are important but when times are tight, they always fall back on the money issue.

I'm picking up on the latest comments about fairness. To charge 1 motorcycle a quarter of the price because its in a painted box, and the 1 10 m over full price because it isn't won't work. With that alone, will can compel them to use a 2 price structure machine across the entire City. That alone should put the price well above the revenue from bikes & hopefully get us back to free parking as the most financially viable option.
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Unfortunately there are a couple of problems with this.

The first is that there are a goodly number of counsellors who are stuck on the 'global city' concept and who think that if something has been done somewhere, anywhere else, then Toronto needs to do it in order to 'keep up with the Joneses.' With this assumption in their heads, a pay-by-plate or other new and shiny parking system becomes a necessity. This assumption, of course, in no way considers whether the initial outlay for the system is a true necessity, or if motorcycles would continue to park in the city and provide the assumed revenue. If that assumption is made, there is then no reason to exclude motorcycles from paying.

The second is that counsellors would consider some sort of fundamental fairness, when pricing said parking for smaller vehicles like motorcycles. Several counsellors have already gone on record by essentially saying that a motorcycle is a vehicle and, therefore, should pay the same as any other vehicle.

The break point is whether it's a necessity, at a time of fiscal constraint, to replace the existing parking system. If the assumption that a new system is needed is allowed to stand, unchallenged, then all else will naturally follow.
 
FYI "mike" =

[FONT=&quot]Councillor Mike Layton[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ward 19, Trinity-Spadina[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
I can just see the Mini owners or the smartcar owners wanting special rates because they are smaller. Hopefully it won't get to that silliness as seen in places like home Depot where they try and have hybrid parking spots.

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Rob MacLennan said:
Unfortunately there are a couple of problems with this.

The first is that there are a goodly number of counsellors who are stuck on the 'global city' concept and who think that if something has been done somewhere, anywhere else, then Toronto needs to do it in order to 'keep up with the Joneses.' With this assumption in their heads, a pay-by-plate or other new and shiny parking system becomes a necessity. This assumption, of course, in no way considers whether the initial outlay for the system is a true necessity, or if motorcycles would continue to park in the city and provide the assumed revenue. If that assumption is made, there is then no reason to exclude motorcycles from paying.

The second is that counsellors would consider some sort of fundamental fairness, when pricing said parking for smaller vehicles like motorcycles. Several counsellors have already gone on record by essentially saying that a motorcycle is a vehicle and, therefore, should pay the same as any other vehicle.

The break point is whether it's a necessity, at a time of fiscal constraint, to replace the existing parking system. If the assumption that a new system is needed is allowed to stand, unchallenged, then all else will naturally follow.
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I'm assuming that they have already decided to switch to "pay by plate" technology for other reasons. I can't see them introducing it just to get a tiny bit of revenue from riders.
 
Face said:
I'm assuming that they have already decided to switch to "pay by plate" technology for other reasons. I can't see them introducing it just to get a tiny bit of revenue from riders.
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I don't know that it's a done deal yet. There was talk, a few months back, about 'upgrading' to a different system. I don't really recall hearing much about the reasoning behind it, other than 'it's newer.'
 
Rob MacLennan said:
...there are a goodly number of counsellors who are stuck on the 'global city' concept and who think that if something has been done somewhere, anywhere else, then Toronto needs to do it in order to 'keep up with the Joneses.'
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That's what I've noticed too, councillors from both spectrums will stoke civic pride by claiming something-or-other is an essential part of making TO a "world-class city".
As if that's even a worthwhile goal on its own, and as if it absolves us from having to establish our own set of values, our own identity, and evaluate the merits of ideas in accordance with these.
Shameful pandering is what it is.
 
fastar1 said:
That's what I've noticed too, councillors from both spectrums will stoke civic pride by claiming something-or-other is an essential part of making TO a "world-class city".
As if that's even a worthwhile goal on its own, and as if it absolves us from having to establish our own set of values, our own identity, and evaluate the merits of ideas in accordance with these.
Shameful pandering is what it is.
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And a pointless exercise, at that. Is there anyone, in the developed world, who doesn't already know the name 'Toronto'? Sounds pretty 'world class' to me.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
And a pointless exercise, at that. Is there anyone, in the developed world, who doesn't already know the name 'Toronto'? Sounds pretty 'world class' to me.
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Exactly. Plus, obsessively copying the great usually leads to mediocrity anyways.
 
fastar1 said:
Exactly. Plus, obsessively copying the great usually leads to mediocrity anyways.
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And copying seems to be all that they want to do. Toronto is great because it's Toronto, with all that comes with, not because it's "London Lite." The decisions that the city makes have to be good for it; not just because the neighbours down the block gots one.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
And copying seems to be all that they want to do. Toronto is great because it's Toronto, with all that comes with, not because it's "London Lite." The decisions that the city makes have to be good for it; not just because the neighbours down the block gots one.
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Oh I agree, problem is its a dysfunctional City at best where works are concerned. Examples would include garbage cans that can't be opened if there is any amount of snow on the ground, new roads that get ripped up 3 times in a summer because water/hydo/sewer people refuse to coordinate, hand wells that are spe'ced 15mm from a standard size so they require custom order from a manufacture, or green p machines that don't work when its really cold.....I constantly want to beat my head against my desk and ask "what the hell were you thinking?".

If I can get them to copy something that works well for a "world class city", and would actually work for this City just as well I am happy to put whatever spin on it that will get it implemented.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
And a pointless exercise, at that. Is there anyone, in the developed world, who doesn't already know the name 'Toronto'? Sounds pretty 'world class' to me.
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Having travelled around North America on a motorbike, talking to everyone I meet, you'd be surprised. Most people aren't aware this toxic waste dump exists, and they're better off for it, I say. Toronto is only significant to Canadians and nearby places like Buffalo, Rochester, Detroit, Chicago, etc.
 
viper84737 said:
Having travelled around North America on a motorbike, talking to everyone I meet, you'd be surprised. Most people aren't aware this toxic waste dump exists, and they're better off for it, I say. Toronto is only significant to Canadians and nearby places like Buffalo, Rochester, Detroit, Chicago, etc.
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Americans aren't aware of anything outside the US

Sent from my tablet using my paws
 
Who originally coined "Toronto is a world-class city", Mel Lastman? If you constantly need to reinforce your city is world-class, it probably isn't.
 
skip said:
Oh I agree, problem is its a dysfunctional City at best where works are concerned. Examples would include garbage cans that can't be opened if there is any amount of snow on the ground, new roads that get ripped up 3 times in a summer because water/hydo/sewer people refuse to coordinate, hand wells that are spe'ced 15mm from a standard size so they require custom order from a manufacture, or green p machines that don't work when its really cold.....I constantly want to beat my head against my desk and ask "what the hell were you thinking?".
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Haha, I feel your frustration. Add to that organic waste cans that pop open when tipped over resulting in the world's largest urban population of obese racoons.
 
viper84737 said:
Having travelled around North America on a motorbike, talking to everyone I meet, you'd be surprised. Most people aren't aware this toxic waste dump exists, and they're better off for it, I say. Toronto is only significant to Canadians and nearby places like Buffalo, Rochester, Detroit, Chicago, etc.
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Having travelled through the US a fair bit what I've found is quite the opposite; they think that Toronto is our national capitol. Not hard to understand as it's our best known, and largest city. It needs to start behaving like it and drive the damned bus, instead of just tagging onto the bad ideas of everyone else. When it comes to this parking issue, as I've said, they need to start at the beginning by asking if it is actually necessary, and fiscally responsible, to change the existing system. Far too often politicians make the assumption that something should be done rather than asking that one simple question, "Do we need to do this?"
 
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Rob MacLennan said:
And a pointless exercise, at that. Is there anyone, in the developed world, who doesn't already know the name 'Toronto'? Sounds pretty 'world class' to me.
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I never knew anything of Toronto before I came here. Many years ago in the 90s I travelled the west coast and visited Victoria, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary. I knew there was a French Canadian province and also about the east coast. Oh, and some place with the large tower and big lake /waterfall nearby.

My friends in NZ and Australia think I live in a place like Vancouver - that's the image we see on TV and media of Canada.. The Rockies etc.
Only reason I came to Toronto when I got my visa for Canada was my sponsor moved from Victoria to The GTA. (I got assimilated here in the post dotcom fallout and now have settled here...)

Seriously.. many members have PMd me and ask " why the **** would a kiwi want to live here? ."

Most of them are like me, either came here with expectations to leave but get settled.. Or have been sent here due to work.





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RetroGrouch said:
Who originally coined "Toronto is a world-class city", Mel Lastman? If you constantly need to reinforce your city is world-class, it probably isn't.
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Bingo. It's not the garbage CANS that make Toronto a festering, deplorable, disgusting sh1thole, it's the garbage PEOPLE (and the garbage climate).

I've been to some real world-class cities (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Montreal, London, Istanbul, etc) and including Toronto in them is a giant insult to those places. In many of those places you can park a motorcycle for free, or at least get away with parking in between cars without repercussion.
 
Back to the pay by plate thing.
In Wellington NZ they implemented pay by SMS (txt msg for nth Americans) you txt msg your plate details to a special parking number and put "money" in your meter. Handy when needing to top up the meter when out at a show or restaurant.
Motorcycle parking was free on the bays they provide throughout the downtown core. This is similar to what I have seen I Australia too. Free parking at university was awesome.
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