Motorcycle Parking Fee 2015 – Response Coordination Thread | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Motorcycle Parking Fee 2015 – Response Coordination Thread

Just an FYI ..... I found the link below from the City of Toronto as of Dec-1-2014. The designated parking spots have been setup (300 of them) and included is a map as to where all of these spots are located. Parking is still free of charge and the program will be evaluated over a one year period with final recommendations in the Fall of 2015.

There is also a "how to get involved section" where "Public input and comments are welcome and will be considered as part of our pilot study". There's an email address in this section as well, so I think we should send as many emails as possible on top getting in touch with councillors.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=e10086195a7c1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD
 
is there a form letter we can send to our councillor at this point in time?

We don't have anything yet, but we can pull something together that is more general for now, then another one when the report is made public.

Just an FYI ..... I found the link below from the City of Toronto as of Dec-1-2014. The designated parking spots have been setup (300 of them) and included is a map as to where all of these spots are located. Parking is still free of charge and the program will be evaluated over a one year period with final recommendations in the Fall of 2015.

There is also a "how to get involved section" where "Public input and comments are welcome and will be considered as part of our pilot study". There's an email address in this section as well, so I think we should send as many emails as possible on top getting in touch with councillors.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=e10086195a7c1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

Sending e-mails in with your thoughts and concerns is great. Everyone should ask to be notified when a public consultation meeting is being held, and a report dealing with either the dedicated parking pilot program, or implementing fees for motorcycle, is brought forward. Hopefully you will be notified, but if you aren't, the lack of consultation and notification can be another issue we raise when we address Committee.

Since the last recommendation about fees was tied into the dedicated parking report, the next one may be as well. Other than the reference to "the fall", we have no idea when it will come out. I'll watch agendas just in case they separate the issues or bring it out early.
 
This issue is a major one for me as i ride and park downtown all the time and if this gets taken away i would strongly be looking at ditching the bike all together. With the mayor going gangbusters on traffic issues i don't possibly see how we can not make a bunch of really good points on how motorcycle use reduces traffic and congestion, occupies less parking and is less harmful to the environment. In fact the city should be putting in motion policy to increase motorcycle use instead of bringing forward motions/rule changes that would negatively impact bikers.
 
With the mayor going gangbusters on traffic issues i don't possibly see how we can not make a bunch of really good points on how motorcycle use reduces traffic and congestion, occupies less parking and is less harmful to the environment.

The province needs to make insurance costs realistic instead of what they are to get more people interested. It's a small percentage of general traffic so no one cares.
 
Since many members here are also CAA members, had anyone contacted them to see if they would assist with this initiative? They would be a well respected voice to this matter.

I would have attended the meeting but was working the show and could not get away.
 
Thinking about insurance rates... Would it make sense to engage any of the local State Farm agents? They would have financial impact if pay parking leads to a number of motorcyclist selling their bikes and thus cancelling insurance. Would they have any influence?
 
So, I took a walk to Mercer & John Streets to see what the City of Toronto had "setup" regarding the 300 motorcycle parking spaces spread across the city. No painted lines from what I could see since there's still quite a bit of snow on Mercer St., but there were two signs like this:

IMG_20150225_124413.jpg

The signs were roughly 15 yards apart. Nothing on the payment machine regarding the "motorcycle parking pilot" either. So, if we're parked outside of the signs we get ticketed? Something to ask the city I guess.

I'm trying to figure out how many bikes could fit within 15 yards -- I dunno, 1 full-sized motorcycle per yard and/or 2 scooters per yard? I think 2 full sized bikes per yard would be too crammed.
 
So, I took a walk to Mercer & John Streets to see what the City of Toronto had "setup" regarding the 300 motorcycle parking spaces spread across the city. No painted lines from what I could see since there's still quite a bit of snow on Mercer St., but there were two signs like this:

View attachment 36408

The signs were roughly 15 yards apart. Nothing on the payment machine regarding the "motorcycle parking pilot" either. So, if we're parked outside of the signs we get ticketed? Something to ask the city I guess.

I'm trying to figure out how many bikes could fit within 15 yards -- I dunno, 1 full-sized motorcycle per yard and/or 2 scooters per yard? I think 2 full sized bikes per yard would be too crammed.
I'm pretty sure I know this spot your referring to as well as a few others, I've noticed them in the past. Haven't been riding around that part of the core though recently and like you said, there's too much snow to be able to tell if there is anything painted there. But I do believe I recall seeing something painted on the ground, just some extra yellow lines I think. Nothing fancy. Definitely a good idea to ask about parking outside of the designated areas where they are in effect and in regular Green P pay and display parking where the designated areas are not in the area.

Let's not forget to sign the petition on change.org as well as show up to meetings, maybe even protest on University or at Yonge and Dundas and fill the streets up with our bikes when the weather gets better. Change.org petition is here: https://www.change.org/p/john-tory-please-maintain-free-motorcycle-parking-in-toronto
for those of you who haven't seen it.
 
So, I took a walk to Mercer & John Streets to see what the City of Toronto had "setup" regarding the 300 motorcycle parking spaces spread across the city. No painted lines from what I could see since there's still quite a bit of snow on Mercer St., but there were two signs like this:

View attachment 36408

The signs were roughly 15 yards apart. Nothing on the payment machine regarding the "motorcycle parking pilot" either. So, if we're parked outside of the signs we get ticketed? Something to ask the city I guess.

I'm trying to figure out how many bikes could fit within 15 yards -- I dunno, 1 full-sized motorcycle per yard and/or 2 scooters per yard? I think 2 full sized bikes per yard would be too crammed.

At this stage in the pilot program, these signs and lines are meant to define an area that is dedicated for motorcycle only parking. Motorcycles are still allowed to park outside the lines with cars, and motorcycle parking both inside and outside the lines is still free. The problem today is that as no by-law has been passed regarding the dedicated spaces, Parking Enforcement officers have no authority to ticket cars parked in the dedicated motorcycle spaces.

The September 2013 report spoke to charging motorcycles at a reduced rate within the designated areas some time in the future when pay-by-plate technology is deployed. The report did not discuss how or if motorcycles would be charged outside these dedicated areas. We were successful in getting Council to strike any reference to future charging out of the recommendations, so the final recommendations were silent on charging.

We know that staff intend to charge motorcycles in the future. We just have to wait and see how they propose to implement it, and at what rate relative to cars. We also don't know when these recommendations will come forward. We just have to do what we can to be ready when they do.
 
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maybe even protest on University or at Yonge and Dundas and fill the streets up with our bikes when the weather gets better.

There are pros and cons to protesting. Sure it can put an issue in the public spotlight, but that may also work against us. Many people don't understand how more people switching to bikes improves congestion, and a road blocking protest won't get that message across. They just say that cars have to pay, so why shouldn't bikes. People who couldn't care less may even react against riders in response to this kind of action.
 
We know that staff intend to charge motorcycles in the future. We just have to wait and see how they propose to implement it, and at what rate relative to cars. We also don't know when these recommendations will come forward. We just have to do what we can to be ready when they do.

This is whats important to me. I dont want them to be wasting our money by implementing some crappy scheme. By keeping up with this process, we can try and keep them in check.
 
There are pros and cons to protesting. Sure it can put an issue in the public spotlight, but that may also work against us. Many people don't understand how more people switching to bikes improves congestion, and a road blocking protest won't get that message across. They just say that cars have to pay, so why shouldn't bikes. People who couldn't care less may even react against riders in response to this kind of action.
Parked all along university to show how many bikes can fit in so many small spots? lol

It's always amazed me to see it happen at the burrito boys meet in mississauga how usually that would be a spot for 5 cars, and we have 20+ bikes instead of it.
Anyhow back to the thread, we need awareness.

And we need it soon.
 
There are pros and cons to protesting. Sure it can put an issue in the public spotlight, but that may also work against us. Many people don't understand how more people switching to bikes improves congestion, and a road blocking protest won't get that message across. They just say that cars have to pay, so why shouldn't bikes. People who couldn't care less may even react against riders in response to this kind of action.

I do agree that a road blocking protest will not get the message across or benefit us in anyway. However I feel like seeing how many riders/bikes there are lining the sides of the streets in legal legit pay and display areas, as well as non parking areas in a non road blocking fashion can benefit us, as well as show the magnitude and effect that this will have on the city congestion and traffic. The only time we'll be taking up the entire street is when groups are coming or going. There is no point in walking or riding around in circles creating negative police and public attention when the shear numbers of parked bikes, riders in gear will show cause and create public awareness in itself.
Any size group of riders already can slow down/stop traffic without protesting and acting ignorant.
Most people in the city genuinely have no clue that the city is attempting to change this/these by-laws and probably won't until some type of public awareness is created.
A large issue I personally have with pay per plate/pay and display parking for bikes is is the city going to change it's parking system entirely to account for and allow us to pay for parking because as things stand now is when you purchase a ticket/parking for your bike where are you supposed to securely display your ticket. Unlike a cage we have no where to secure a ticket like a windshield or a dash. The wind, a pedestrian, parking authority or a fellow driver looking for a paid display parking ticket can take our ticket from our bikes and I fail to see what there is that we can do about it.
 
The idea of "parking along all of University", or parking along the longest Green P strip we can find, may not be such a bad idea. There wouldn't be any interference with traffic and riders would still be making a point at the same time. Like someone said, "it has to be peaceful" and we can't break any laws in the process -- we don't want to tick too many people off or we've lost.

The key here, however, is to alert the Media as to where and when the "protest" will happen. They show up with a crew, take a good shot of all of the bikes and say "hey, these could be cars if paid motorcycle parking becomes law". The city doesn't likes bad press and if we could get a spokes-person to work the angles with the reporters -- e.g. we're more environmentally friendly; we have a smaller vehicle footprint; it'd be a waste of taxpayer money enforcing paid motorcycle parking vs. the actual income it would generate to the city; etc -- it might help.

If it doesn't help, at least we tried and all had a coffee together in the process.
 
Most people in the city genuinely have no clue that the city is attempting to change this/these by-laws and probably won't until some type of public awareness is created.

A large issue I personally have with pay per plate/pay and display parking for bikes is is the city going to change it's parking system entirely to account for and allow us to pay for parking because as things stand now is when you purchase a ticket/parking for your bike where are you supposed to securely display your ticket. Unlike a cage we have no where to secure a ticket like a windshield or a dash. The wind, a pedestrian, parking authority or a fellow driver looking for a paid display parking ticket can take our ticket from our bikes and I fail to see what there is that we can do about it.

Most people have no clue that bikes park for free.

Pay-by-Plate is not coming because of us. It's coming anyway. Probably to do with the age of the pay-&-display machines or savings through efficiency, or coordination with apps, but it's not about us. Because it is coming, staff see the opportunity to include motorcycles as well. In their minds, the only reason we aren't charged now is because of the problems displaying slips on a bike.

The idea of "parking along all of University", or parking along the longest Green P strip we can find, may not be such a bad idea. There wouldn't be any interference with traffic and riders would still be making a point at the same time. Like someone said, "it has to be peaceful" and we can't break any laws in the process -- we don't want to tick too many people off or we've lost.

The key here, however, is to alert the Media as to where and when the "protest" will happen. They show up with a crew, take a good shot of all of the bikes and say "hey, these could be cars if paid motorcycle parking becomes law". The city doesn't likes bad press and if we could get a spokes-person to work the angles with the reporters -- e.g. we're more environmentally friendly; we have a smaller vehicle footprint; it'd be a waste of taxpayer money enforcing paid motorcycle parking vs. the actual income it would generate to the city; etc -- it might help.

If it doesn't help, at least we tried and all had a coffee together in the process.

Sounds like an interesting idea. Ideally it should happen just before the Committee meeting, but that may be difficult given the short notice we will get. It would also have to be well organised. I would hate to invite the press only to have 10 bikes show up. That would defeat the whole argument.
 
Most people have no clue that bikes park for free.

Pay-by-Plate is not coming because of us. It's coming anyway. Probably to do with the age of the pay-&-display machines or savings through efficiency, or coordination with apps, but it's not about us. Because it is coming, staff see the opportunity to include motorcycles as well. In their minds, the only reason we aren't charged now is because of the problems displaying slips on a bike.



Sounds like an interesting idea. Ideally it should happen just before the Committee meeting, but that may be difficult given the short notice we will get. It would also have to be well organised. I would hate to invite the press only to have 10 bikes show up. That would defeat the whole argument.
Ahaha we're basically talking about doing a flash mob in a more tame manner.

And yeah when i tell people motorcycles park for free, they are truly surprised! The media is a very important component of this as it will make it more of "an issue that touches a wider population"
 
This can't be just about free parking or people will ask why we get to park for free.

We need them to want to have more bikes and fewer cars, and by them letting us park for free, we reduce their traffic. This must be about why it's good for taxpayers who do not ride bikes.

The data talking about the growth in motorcycle licenses since no fee parking showed up is supportive that no fee parking encourages increased use of motorcycles. If we could quantify what that means for commuter bikes that would otherwise be another car, that would be helpful.

Mary Margaret said that I should take ttc if I don't want to pay for parking. I said ttc was terrible and I would drive my car instead of pay for bike parking. She asked why I don't then ride a bicycle, like she does, to work.

We can't make this about us. It has to be about what's best for the city. Is there data comparing a city with reduced pay by plate parking for bikes like vancouver to a city with free parking?
 
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So I have to write a letter for to a governing body for my Business Communications Class, One bottle of wine and three hours later(including research), I have a first draft.

By no means am I suggesting this represent us, the numbers are true....ish, massaged for dramatic purposes and it's a little mumbling. I had fun writing it and maybe it will bring up some good points, or maybe you'll all correct it to the point is becomes a decent piece of writing. I haven't included sources because the list is 6 pages.

Have fun with it

-Chris

Fudging:

most popular vehicle, F150,
Grom and CBR 500 for bike stats
40km Round trip commute
1.42 for gas prices
AVG car: 5.02M +0.48M for maneuvering space
1.3M commuters is 450,000 from GTA plus 850,000 Toronto commuters (even if they cross the street)
5,500KM =1.3Mil*.8(rounded percentage that drive to work in Canada)*5.5/1,000m(1km) rounded
10.5km of space (17,500 spaces*6meter average space/1,000(1km))
20,000 off street spots (with green P)

(I'm happy to do the conservative math and share my sources if anyone wants them)


Dear Toronto City Council

I would like to address the issue of motorcycle parking in the city of Toronto, its cost to the city, its users, and other impacts it has. Everyday, the city of Toronto gains and loses more than the population of Miami, Florida due to people commuting in and out of the city. The influx of commuters during the day is only a part of the massive migration that Toronto goes through. More than the population of San Francisco, comparatively speaking, moves from the vast borders of Toronto to the downtown core of the city, and 4 out of 5 commuters drive.

In late 2005, The City Council of Toronto amended by laws to allow motorcycles to park for free on Toronto streets. The Toronto City Council has recently introduced new legislation to repeal this legislation, making very public it’s intention to create separate spaces for motorcycles. This would be detrimental to the local Toronto economy and the environment, directly effecting air quality in the downtown core. A great number of motorcyclists have spoken out about the parking fee change, claiming that if they are charged for parking, the cost savings will diminish to the point they will drive their much more convenient car.

Every day in Canada, 15.4 Million people commute to work. Of all of those commuters 11.6 Million of them drive to and park in city centers. In Toronto’s case, with nearly 1.3 million people going to work each day, it means that, if all vehicles were average length (averaged based on 2010 Calgary parking study) and were lined up end to end, with just enough space between them to park, it would stretch nearly 5,500 Kilometers. This is a staggering number, because Toronto only has 10.5 kilometers of public street parking space. When the journey comes to an end, many of these vehicles end up in Municipal parking, totalling over 37,500 spaces; the rest end up in private lots or even illegal off street parking.

The message all this sends is that Toronto congestion cannot get better without some drastic change. Motorcycles originally became free to park on the street because of their environmental benefits, small space requirements and the difficulty is displaying a “Pay-and-Display” ticket, without the ticket being stolen. Since 2005 Motorcycle ridership has increased year-over-year to it’s current high of 2.7% of registered vehicles. The majority of motorcyclists also owning cars and having the option brings us to nearly 40,000 potential motorcycle commuters.

A full size motorcycle, parked carefully, takes up less than a meter of horizontal curb space. The space savings are compounded when a group of them park together, fitting in so as to allow a much space as possible for others to park. Since a motorcycle takes up less space than a car, at current ownership levels motorcycles parking in the city could save up to 220 Kilometers of street parking space.

Motorcycles have many benefits over cars. The most popular selling vehicle in Canada for the last five years gets, at best, 18 mpg (15L/100km); the best selling motorcycles in Canada, one light commuter and one aggressive sport bike, get 121 mpg (1.9L/100KM) and 65 mpg (3.6L/100KM) respectively. All these comparisons and statistics mean that, at current ownership levels, motorcycles save 960,000 Liters of gas from being burnt up into out air, and save up to $1,400,000 to re-allocate into our local economy (Number of Liters saved multiplied by summer gas prices 2014).

So Motorcycle save parking space, making the core more efficient, allowing more access to local businesses, they save money they their owners can spend in the local economy and they save the air we all share and breath. Repealing Toronto’s current parking legislation would be a massive step backward and a very short sighted, ill-conceived move benefitting only the ego’s of the legislators and for only a short time.
 
Ahaha we're basically talking about doing a flash mob in a more tame manner.

And yeah when i tell people motorcycles park for free, they are truly surprised! The media is a very important component of this as it will make it more of "an issue that touches a wider population"

A tame flash mob!? LOL, my other half goes to Ryerson for dance and has been in an actual flash mob, and I've seen a few- I really don't think that this is a good comparison but reading it made me LOL. I think we just need to open peoples eyes with the peaceful protest of simply parking in masses. The flash mob; tame or other wise is typically a more erratic- spontaneous appearing event that is very well planned. Which we will most likely not be well planned- and should refrain from appearing spontaneous or erratic. Just saying.

I'd say the number of people who are aware that we don't pay for parking is 50-50. I'm pretty sure the CP24 video Face initially posted said that since 2005 8000 plates have been registered. It didn't offer any prior or other stats for comparison. I think it's safe to say we're not all going to just stop riding and sell our bikes if we have to pay for parking. We might not ride as much/ as often. We may not use our bikes to commute as much but I don't think we're going to just stop riding, ridership increase will most likely be hurt though.


puttockc I like the letter, solid first draft, not sure I would change much/if anything. But also not sure how many of us should send basically or exactly the same letter.



Just a link to the discussion (or lack of so far like here as Its Winter so not may riders) on the Toronto Scooter Forum:

http://www.meetup.com/toronto-moto-scooter-club/messages/boards/thread/48624914


So do you actually ride a scooter as well? Good call creating a connection on the Toronto Scooter Meetup site.
The thought crossed my mind but I never go on there and meetup.com sends annoying emails that I need to unsubscribe for.
 

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