Motorcycle Gang Confrontation

[TK4]

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My $0.02 - if you think you're a bad*ss gangstah then take it to the race track.
There are plenty of track days and organized events to show off your 'skills'.
Of course, the likelihood is you'll get your backside whipped and who wants that ...?

 

[Brian P]

Actually I'm surprised that no one's posted a video of this yet as I'm sure a good number of them would have cameras nowadays. Wait a few more days until it subsides and a video may pop up on YT.

Maybe that's because things didn't happen the way the driver/passenger said they did. (Or any of the five or six different ways the driver and passenger said they did.)

 

[Roadghost]

Re: Griff hard on material

I did not read the whole 10 pages in this thread, and if this is covered then I apologize.

These recent two West end Toronto/Mississauga incidents involving large roaming gangs of sport bike riders will herald a GTA-wide crackdown on sport bike riders. When your group is stopped and ticketed for the smallest infraction, you can thank your fellow riders in these two groups. The driver, a woman, was punched so hard she was knocked unconscious. On the news she stated that the bike rider smashed her window with a hammer, all going at 100+kph. Unbelievably stupid.

Again, like many others here you're taking this stupid woman at her word. In truth, the facts point to her causing the whole thing. You don't use a deadly weapon to force your way past slower vehicles on a highway. Either be patient, or call the police, don't get aggressive. Can you imagine if every semi-truck got angry and force cars out of their way so they could go faster? And a crackdown on sport bike riders? Good luck. It won't solve the problem. How do you think the outlaw clubs got started?

And to those that question why their sport bike insurance is so sky high, these two recent events clearly show that sport bike riders deserve and will receive extremely high insurance increases, especially in Mississauga. Roving sport bike riders in huge groups, flaunting the law, violently damaging other cars, punching people out = high insurance premiums. For a long time. Bad rep with the general public. No help on the road if you get into trouble. No leniency from the police.

Insurance is already sky high. If the greedy insurance companies could charge more they would. And since when have bikers ever had a good rep with the general public? Ever since The Wild One came out we've been portrayed as outlaw thugs and hell raisers. The outlaw element in motorcycling represents about 1% of riders as was once famously said. It's true, even for sport bike riders. Most are law abiding.

You might have gotten away with this event, but the sport bike community will pay dearly for your transgressions. And I support those who will crack down hard on sport bike riders, such as law enforcement, government and insurance. Riding is a privilege, not a license to intimidate and hurt the general public.

The sky isn't falling. There will be more of these pack rides if history is any indicator. People should learn to be patient around them instead of blowing their stacks and getting foolish. I have not seen these guys "intimidating" or "hurting" anyone without provocation. If you attack anyone with your cage they're going to react, and if they do and you all get hauled into court don't be surprised if the judge doesn't side with you. Look up the 50/50 rule on damages:

Two people get into an altercation. Both are ruled at fault. Person number 1 suffers $45,000 damages and person number two $1 million. The 50/50 rule:

$1,000,000 - $45,000 = $955,000

Person number 1 pays. Who do you think is going to suffer the most damage between a motorcycle and a cage?

Being patient looks a lot better in retrospect.

 

[Face]

Re: Griff hard on material

I did not read the whole 10 pages in this thread, and if this is covered then I apologize.

These recent two West end Toronto/Mississauga incidents involving large roaming gangs of sport bike riders will herald a GTA-wide crackdown on sport bike riders. When your group is stopped and ticketed for the smallest infraction, you can thank your fellow riders in these two groups. The driver, a woman, was punched so hard she was knocked unconscious. On the news she stated that the bike rider smashed her window with a hammer, all going at 100+kph. Unbelievably stupid.

And to those that question why their sport bike insurance is so sky high, these two recent events clearly show that sport bike riders deserve and will receive extremely high insurance increases, especially in Mississauga. Roving sport bike riders in huge groups, flaunting the law, violently damaging other cars, punching people out = high insurance premiums. For a long time. Bad rep with the general public. No help on the road if you get into trouble. No leniency from the police.

You might have gotten away with this event, but the sport bike community will pay dearly for your transgressions. And I support those who will crack down hard on sport bike riders, such as law enforcement, government and insurance. Riding is a privilege, not a license to intimidate and hurt the general public.

If you're saying that insurance companies will use this as an excuse to further raise sport bike rates, and cops will use this as an excuse to target sport bike riders for minor infractions to show the public they are doing "something", I agree, we should expect this response. But if you are saying they are justified in doing this, then you probably supported the police hassling any black guy they saw on the street in the year of the gun.

^ Good response Roadghost.

 

[yodude]

Re: Griff hard on material

Can you imagine if every semi-truck got angry and force cars out of their way so they could go faster?

see it all the time when slow cagers in middle lanes don't move over to the right, then truckers get right behind them,

whoever smacked the dizzy dame is up on assault charges

 

[mimico_polak]

Maybe that's because things didn't happen the way the driver/passenger said they did. (Or any of the five or six different ways the driver and passenger said they did.)

I didn't mean from the car. I'd like to see the video from the motorcycle POV. I don't believe the full story from the woman and the driver of the car at all.

 

[Roadghost]

Re: Griff hard on material

see it all the time when slow cagers in middle lanes don't move over to the right, then truckers get right behind them,

whoever smacked the dizzy dame is up on assault charges

What if he says she was punching him first? I want the WHOLE story, not just HERS.

 

[yodude]

Re: Griff hard on material

Again, like many others here you're taking this stupid woman at her word. In truth, the facts point to her causing the whole thing. You don't use a deadly weapon to force your way past slower vehicles on a highway. Either be patient, or call the police, don't get aggressive. Can you imagine if every semi-truck got angry and force cars out of their way so they could go faster? And a crackdown on sport bike riders? Good luck. It won't solve the problem. How do you think the outlaw clubs got started?




Insurance is already sky high. If the greedy insurance companies could charge more they would. And since when have bikers ever had a good rep with the general public? Ever since The Wild One came out we've been portrayed as outlaw thugs and hell raisers. The outlaw element in motorcycling represents about 1% of riders as was once famously said. It's true, even for sport bike riders. Most are law abiding.



The sky isn't falling. There will be more of these pack rides if history is any indicator. People should learn to be patient around them instead of blowing their stacks and getting foolish. I have not seen these guys "intimidating" or "hurting" anyone without provocation. If you attack anyone with your cage they're going to react, and if they do and you all get hauled into court don't be surprised if the judge doesn't side with you. Look up the 50/50 rule on damages:

Two people get into an altercation. Both are ruled at fault. Person number 1 suffers $45,000 damages and person number two $1 million. The 50/50 rule:

$1,000,000 - $45,000 = $955,000

Person number 1 pays. Who do you think is going to suffer the most damage between a motorcycle and a cage?

Being patient looks a lot better in retrospect.

the headlines say

Road rage, mischief, assault, rollover and fire in one occurrence

prior to that

CAUGHT ON CAMERA: ‘Very dangerous’ motorcyclists wreaking havoc through Mississauga prior to fiery crash

considered 2 incidents in a major cops biker investigations

 

[Neil_V]

up in sudbury, bears can end up shot by folks, who also have 911 options

Go ahead, pull out your rifle in a busy suburb and take a few shots yourself; see where that gets you. This isn't out in the sticks we're talking about here, and if the big issue is everyone elses safety, you have no right to try and exact vigilante justice on the roads. All it does is escalate, and beside the entertainment value of the occasional YT vid, there is nothing to be gained.

 

[Neil_V]

Re: Griff hard on material

What if he says she was punching him first? I want the WHOLE story, not just HERS.

She is quoted admitting that once she recognized the biker who hit the mirror/window/whatever, she grabbed him by the back of the neck and started screaming at him.

 

[-D-]

Re: Griff hard on material

let's start at step 1...before anyone was on the road.
The driver/boyfriend has a suspended license.
Why is he driving to begin with?

 

[TorontoBoy]

Re: Griff hard on material

If you're saying that insurance companies will use this as an excuse to further raise sport bike rates, and cops will use this as an excuse to target sport bike riders for minor infractions to show the public they are doing "something", I agree, we should expect this response. But if you are saying they are justified in doing this, then you probably supported the police hassling any black guy they saw on the street in the year of the gun...

Perception is everything. Now the police, insurance companies and government have 2 documented cases of sport bike abuses, both resulting in vehicle fire and one resulting in physical assault of the driver. Any way you look at it, sport bike riders are out of line and there needs to be a strong response to this illegal behaviour. Police, government and insurance ARE justified in a strong opposing response, with these 2 incidents as a precedence.

A recent example was Toronto's burgeoning pot shop fiasco, where so many of the public wanted these pot shops closed. Three major raids later the cops arrest a bunch of owners and workers. They are paraded in front of tv for all to see. Police arrest owners, pot shops close, the public sees these raids on tv, politicians get to say they squished evil, social angst then goes down. These raids were justified.

I hope to see a couple of large arrests and confiscations of sport bikes in the near future. Only then can the general public breath a sign of relief that the police have control of law and order, and that the government is doing their job to protect us. Such blatant disregard for law and order cannot and will not go unopposed, I assure you.

 

[fastar1]

Re: Griff hard on material

There was no reported damage to the motorcycles or riders, or anything they could be liable for. Why would insurers care? If they're gonna randomly increase rates they don't need excuses. If they're responsibly gonna increase rates they need accounting justification.

On the other hand, car insurance will be impacted (technically) based on the total loss of the car and the injuries to the driver.

I think people here are paranoid about insurance companies, it's funny to watch.

 

[yodude]

Re: Griff hard on material

weird stuff, someone here making sense, rational, focused & on point

Perception is everything. Now the police, insurance companies and government have 2 documented cases of sport bike abuses, both resulting in vehicle fire and one resulting in physical assault of the driver. Any way you look at it, sport bike riders are out of line and there needs to be a strong response to this illegal behaviour. Police, government and insurance ARE justified in a strong opposing response, with these 2 incidents as a precedence.

A recent example was Toronto's burgeoning pot shop fiasco, where so many of the public wanted these pot shops closed. Three major raids later the cops arrest a bunch of owners and workers. They are paraded in front of tv for all to see. Police arrest owners, pot shops close, the public sees these raids on tv, politicians get to say they squished evil, social angst then goes down. These raids were justified.

I hope to see a couple of large arrests and confiscations of sport bikes in the near future. Only then can the general public breath a sign of relief that the police have control of law and order, and that the government is doing their job to protect us. Such blatant disregard for law and order cannot and will not go unopposed, I assure you.

 

[yodude]

if the big issue is everyone elses safety?? try again, that's clear cut even for joe public

also, doesn't take much for you to swing wildly with the - what the victims are supposed to do pet theme, if not preoccupation, that i even fundamentally agree with, but not the way you present it,

your presentation might as well be pipe dreams

Go ahead, pull out your rifle in a busy suburb and take a few shots yourself; see where that gets you. This isn't out in the sticks we're talking about here, and if the big issue is everyone elses safety, you have no right to try and exact vigilante justice on the roads. All it does is escalate, and beside the entertainment value of the occasional YT vid, there is nothing to be gained.

 

[Face]

Re: Griff hard on material

Perception is everything. Now the police, insurance companies and government have 2 documented cases of sport bike abuses, both resulting in vehicle fire and one resulting in physical assault of the driver. Any way you look at it, sport bike riders are out of line and there needs to be a strong response to this illegal behaviour. Police, government and insurance ARE justified in a strong opposing response, with these 2 incidents as a precedence.

A recent example was Toronto's burgeoning pot shop fiasco, where so many of the public wanted these pot shops closed. Three major raids later the cops arrest a bunch of owners and workers. They are paraded in front of tv for all to see. Police arrest owners, pot shops close, the public sees these raids on tv, politicians get to say they squished evil, social angst then goes down. These raids were justified.

I hope to see a couple of large arrests and confiscations of sport bikes in the near future. Only then can the general public breath a sign of relief that the police have control of law and order, and that the government is doing their job to protect us. Such blatant disregard for law and order cannot and will not go unopposed, I assure you.

I agree, in that I also expect a political response from the police because, as you say, perception is everything. I absolutely disagree that they are justified to go after anyone who was not directly involved, simply because they ride a sport bike. Sure, track down, charge and parade the stunters in front of the media, no problem. But they better have good solid evidence against any other sport bike rider if they are going to lay charges for petty infractions. I guess the courts should expect to be dealing with a bunch of nuisance charges unrelated to these rides as a result of this upcoming police image campaign. And we wonder why the court system is so backed up and inefficient!

As for the pot shops, why are the police involved in by-law infractions? There are by-law officers for that. As you say, its a response to public pressure for something that is going to be legal within a year anyway.

 

[Brian P]

I didn't mean from the car. I'd like to see the video from the motorcycle POV. I don't believe the full story from the woman and the driver of the car at all.

If those motorcycles doing those actions only existed in the figment of somebody's imagination, recalling the events of a week or two before (and there's no argument that THOSE events happened!) then there was no motorcycle, and therefore there is no video from the nonexistent motorcycle's point of view.

Or maybe six motorcycles did exist on the road in front of them ... but they weren't doing anything out of the ordinary, there was no confrontation, there was no mirror kick, and any video that any of those bikes were taking didn't show anything because there wasn't anything to show.

For the insurance angle ... The only potential claim at this point involves the bike that burned to the ground in the 11 Sept incident ... and the cops will know where that bike came from via its VIN, and who owned it (whether that's who was riding it is quite another matter) via that VIN.

As far as police enforcement? You'd think it would be craziest right about now. I've ridden past four or five cops over this weekend in various regions surrounding the GTA. On a sport bike (that's all I have). In a couple of cases I might even have been going a little over the posted speed limit (gasp, the shock the horror, think of the children). And I wasn't even the only bike. BUT, my license plate is where it's supposed to be and it's legit, the lights and mirrors are all there and working, the bike is visibly in good shape and not a ratted out stunt bike, the aftermarket exhaust system is not obnoxiously loud, I'm wearing full gear not a ****** vest, I wasn't riding like an idiot. Guess what ... nothing happened.

 

[yodude]

Or maybe six motorcycles did exist on the road in front of them ... but they weren't doing anything out of the ordinary, there was no confrontation, there was no mirror kick, and any video that any of those bikes were taking didn't show anything because there wasn't anything to show.

actually, the mischief part is about biker at cager

Road rage, mischief, assault, rollover and fire in one occurrence

headline was all bad for bikers

Mississauga road rage crash leaves woman injured and police hunting group of motorcyclists

opp statement

There was damage to the car as a result of “mischief” from one of the motorcyclists and a brief altercation occurred when the motorcyclist and car exited off of Dixie Road in which it appears the woman driving the vehicle was assaulted. She sustained minor injuries, according to OPP Sgt. Kerry Schmidt.

http://www.mississauga.com/news-sto...ed-and-police-hunting-group-of-motorcyclists/

 

[Face]

As far as police enforcement? You'd think it would be craziest right about now. I've ridden past four or five cops over this weekend in various regions surrounding the GTA. On a sport bike (that's all I have). In a couple of cases I might even have been going a little over the posted speed limit (gasp, the shock the horror, think of the children). And I wasn't even the only bike. BUT, my license plate is where it's supposed to be and it's legit, the lights and mirrors are all there and working, the bike is visibly in good shape and not a ratted out stunt bike, the aftermarket exhaust system is not obnoxiously loud, I'm wearing full gear not a ****** vest, I wasn't riding like an idiot. Guess what ... nothing happened.

Good to hear. Hopefully saner heads will prevail and the police will focus on investigating those who were actually involved.

 

[TorontoBoy]

Re: Griff hard on material

There was no reported damage to the motorcycles or riders, or anything they could be liable for. Why would insurers care? If they're gonna randomly increase rates they don't need excuses. If they're responsibly gonna increase rates they need accounting justification.

On the other hand, car insurance will be impacted (technically) based on the total loss of the car and the injuries to the driver.

I think people here are paranoid about insurance companies, it's funny to watch.

Insurance deals in risk. The fact that a possibly catastrophic event did not actually come to pass is immaterial. The risk is there, was real, and only by luck did not happen. Insurance companies need to be compensated for taking on the increased risk required to insure a sport bike, particularly in Mississauga. In the next swarm a catastrophic crash might happen, so insurance companies need to be prepared for the worst possible outcome. If they did not prepare and a bad event happened, they would lose their shirt.

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