We have the right to freedom of movement providing we don't break the law. That sounds like a qualification to me.
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Motorcycle checkpoints?
- Thread starter TwistedKestrel
- Start date
We have the right to freedom of movement providing we don't break the law. That sounds like a qualification to me.
Not breaking the law isn't a "qualification." your confusing the definitions of qualification. When it comes to earning the privilege to drive a qualification would be passing the required tests. your using the term qualification as outlined in #4 of the definitions as opposed to definition 3. Defintion 3 is the correct one for obtaining a licence.
[h=2]qual·i·fi·ca·tion[/h] (kwŏl′ə-fĭ-kā′shən)n.1. The act of qualifying or the condition of being qualified: Qualification for the tournament will be hard.
2. A quality, ability, or accomplishment that makes a person suitable for a particular position or task.
3. A condition or circumstance that must be met or complied with: fulfilled the qualifications for registering to vote.
4. A restriction or modification: a statement hedged with several qualifications.
Driving is a privilege you won't get an argument from me there, but that is not my point. Under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and you do have the right to move around Canada (Right of Mobility). What the police are doing by stopping you or me without cause (just in case you are doing is wrong) is wrong. I don't understand how the Supreme Court Justices did not see this activity that way. Their argument (ruling) that my being inconvenienced by the loss of time is minimal and acceptable compared to the gains that society may receive if my potential to perform criminal acts is deterred or controlled.
Has anybody been stopped in the US for an Immigration checkpoint? Two summers ago south of Lake Placid, immigration officers pulling everyone over for a review of citizenship documents. I have never experienced this before or after this incident. I guess I could see this along the US Mexican border states but in the middle of New York state.
As I said, I can see along the border states with Mexico, but I guess Canadians are now trying to get the hell out too. Given yesterday's -11C probably not a bad idea!
It could happen (although I've not seen myself) as you can now find persons of Latin American descent in all parts of USA.
A few years ago I was visiting a friend in California and was stopped by Border Patrol near the US/Mexico border. I was picked out of a line of a dozen cars as I was the only foreign car (all others received a quick look into the vehicle and let pass). I was given the "royal treatment" where my documents, car and luggage were checked. I was made to stand outside my car in weather just above zero celsius in short pants and a t-shirt for about 15 minutes.
RedDogDarren
Well-known member
I have, in southern California. The major highways were frequently stopped going north at permanent checkpoint stations similar to toll booths.
NOT a big deal.
Scroll down to mobility rights. Nothing there about the right to use the roads, or to move around in any particular way for that matter.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html#h-43
Not sure what your argument is? My displeasure is being stopped while being innocent of any crime while government refuses to have unmarked police vehicles on patrol to stop those that have actually performed HTA violations.
You referred to mobility rights as rights that are infringed by a roadside check. But that's not what mobility rights gives us, it's just the freedom to choose where we go, not how we get there.
Since mobility rights refers to the movement in our country that is exactly what I mean by the infringement of my movement not just driving/riding.
Police can and do stop people who are also walking not just operating a motor vehicle.
Unfortunately for me and others the Supreme Court Justices feel that the police can circumvent these two sections of the Charter: Search or seizure 8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure and Detention or imprisonment 9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned; because they feel that the benefits to our society of the roadside checks outway the inconveniences. Tell me how you feel after you have been stopped more then once for 20 minutes or more resulting from one of these searches and then told that you can go about your business as they haven't found any contrevention?
There are roadside checks that are legit according to the Charter, and some that aren't. The point is simply that no Charter right is infringed merely by the presence of a checkpoint. If one stop and check or another seems arbitrary to you, and you want to dispute the justification for it, fine. But as you say, they've been challenged before and checking for alcohol, unsafe vehicles, noisy exhausts... whatever, the court has deemed those justified. If you're stopped for no reason then you have a legitimate beef. But that's not what we're talking about here.
It happens a lot near borders. Esp near mexico.. Anytime I go to SD and come back up to LA I have to go through at least 1.. but they are random, and sometimes aren't open. and traffic flows through normal. But that's for immigration issues, not because people are on bikes. The check points for bikes.. that is the strange bit..
GVH
Well-known member
Ottawa was doing the check points about 10 years ago. Setup on a one way street all the cruisers go down to show off. If your pipes didn't say dot legal you had 24 hours to fix it or loss the plate for not road legal. About 25 % of the riders had G1 and should not have been out at night or with a passenger. Most riders where 45 plus getting into riding.
I hope people took that to court, because there is nothing in the HTA that requires a muffler or exhaust pipe to say "EPA" or "DOT" or be original equipment or anything of the sort. The muffler has to be "effective", but there is no guidance for what "effective" means. I can manufacture a completely legal-looking shell that retains the original compliance markings but will be obnoxiously loud ... come to think of it, I've owned a couple of cars that manufactured their own mufflers that were like that, over a suitable period of time (by rusting inside - or by breaking the flex pipe), without me having to lift a finger. It is also entirely possible to have a muffler that is just as quiet as the stock muffler, but without any compliance markings.
Straight pipes / no mufflers at all ... no objection to that charge being laid.
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