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M1 Insurnace?

Not allowing you another retest is not a cash grab. When the MTO agreed to allow the Canada Safety Council the right to test and upgrade a riders license they imposed some conditions on the training facilities. One of which was a rider that fails the MOST test is allowed to retest only once. It is not the college rules it is MTO that imposed that rule on the training facilities. And yes the MOST test that the Canada Safety council is required to do is more difficult than the MTO test and again the MTO required the training facilities to adopt a test that was held to a higher standard than what the MTO did. Hence the Canada Safety Council took the Motorcycle Operators Skills Test (MOST) from the United States and modified it slightly to satisfy the MTO to grant a License upgrade upon passing this test.

Any insight as to a provision, when someone doesn't understand a particular element of the evaluation?

As for difficulty. The course evaluation is more difficult with the bikes they use, but most people doing the Ministry test aren't using the same bikes as the course.

I'm hearing rumors now that M1 people are being priced out of insurance by many insurance companies.
This is bad because people's first experience on a bike will then be where they're able to take a passenger on the 401 at night.
So much for graduated licensing.
 
And id be willing to bet 100 cash that these guys^ would fail if they did it right now. (just because you have been riding for a season doesnt mean you can adequately perform slow speed maneuvers etc etc with success, while being judged on your riding, speed, positioning, foot placement etc)

I think only 1 person out of our entire class(of 30) passed it with flying colors, and he had previously ridden(back home in india)

most of the people barely passed with the skin of their teeth, id say 5 people dropped their bikes, 1 person got into an 'accident' and decided not to return (he rear ended someone)

Actually I did the course last weekend when it was -18 in the morning and -5 with wind and salt during the test. 1 person failed. Again it's an easy course with tons of time for practice, demo's and questions. Judging by your comments you seem young and immature which is why I'm not surprised you don't have your license. Good luck and learn to take some constructive criticism
 
Actually I did the course last weekend when it was -18 in the morning and -5 with wind and salt during the test. 1 person failed. Again it's an easy course with tons of time for practice, demo's and questions. Judging by your comments you seem young and immature which is why I'm not surprised you don't have your license. Good luck and learn to take some constructive criticism

I'll bite

"Jesus you must be so damned smart" if thats your definition of constructive criticism....

But i digress
I dont know where you did your test, but at centennial about 5 ppl failed(which is not bad) nevertheless I gained more from the practice before the retest than i did on the 2.5 days combined in the actual course itself, this might be because i somehow missed all the information they were giving out/wasnt paying attention, or maybe because everytime the instructors opened their mouths the only thing that would come out of it was regarding the cold weather"its super cold!" or "You guys are troopers for doing this in this cold!"

The only advice i got from the trainers/assistant trainers during the actual course was "Go faster!"


It wasnt until i actually went to the retest and spoke with the guy incharge of the program that i was able to rectify my problems and actually learn some techniques(which ended up in me almost passing the test but not really)
 
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I'll bite

"Jesus you must be so damned smart" if thats your definition of constructive criticism....

But i digress
I dont know where you did your test, but at centennial about 5 ppl failed(which is not bad) nevertheless I gained more from the practice before the retest than i did on the 2.5 days combined in the actual course itself, this might be because i somehow missed all the information they were giving out/wasnt paying attention, or maybe because everytime the instructors opened their mouths the only thing that would come out of it was regarding the cold weather"its super cold!" or "You guys are troopers for doing this in this cold!"

The only advice i got from the trainers/assistant trainers during the actual course was "Go faster!"


It wasnt until i actually went to the retest and spoke with the guy incharge of the program that i was able to rectify my problems and actually learn some techniques(which ended up in me almost passing the test but not really)

Given that the test is usually done on small 125/250 cc bikes in 1st and 2nd gear, "Go faster" is good advice as to successfully passing the test.

I didn't go with Centennial so I can't comment on how they teach, but given that you're on a small cc bike, you cant really go faster than 40km/h without revving it high which would demonstrate fear of speed. If you can't comfortably go 30km/h, then I think even you'd agree that it wouldn't be safe for you to be on public roads where the minimum is 80km/h+.

I doubt cold weather complaints/compliments from the instructors were all that came out of their mouths as it would be hard to hold your tongue for 8+ hours of training - sounds like selective hearing.
 
Op not going to call you names, or suggest your young or immature, etc.

Only going to make an observation, from having read the entire thread, (both those providing advice, as you requested they do), and your replies to some of them. Also to your "assessment" of the course and the instructors. Take it all with a grain of salt or take it to heart, matters little to me either way. Just recognize it comes from a person with 35 years riding experience, as well as a former cop.

You say that the instructors essentially provided no truly useful information but only complimented the students on coming out on what appears to have been pretty awful conditions. Having instructed on several topics over the years, as well as a few years of on the road training of multiple constables and junior officers. It is a known constructive technique to acknowledge the challenges the student or persons being instructed are enduring. Not sure if it would be accurate to say that this is all the instructors related to the class. By your own admission several of the students did indeed pass the course, so presumably they got more out of the instructions provided to them, than you did. Before beginning the test, if you were unsure of any of the instructions provided did you seek clarification, (more so on the retest, especially if you were advised that you had done some things incorrectly on the initial test)?

You asked people on this forum to provide you with their advice, and many did so, including according to one poster at least 4 motorcycle training instructors. virtually without exception you dismissed their advice, as being inaccurate or that they provided unusable information as they apparently didn't understand how terrible the instructors on your course were. At one point you made assumptions that were clearly inaccurate, (You concluded that meme was immature and not well versed young fellow), when in fact the fact is she is a VERY experienced rider and she is a female. You jumped to these conclusions based upon her initial post, primarily because she challenged your presentation of the course events. I am not aware of your age, (you referred to yourself as "adults having a conversation"), so I have no facts upon which to determine if your 18 or 45. Doesn't matter your chronological age is, what does matter is your level of maturity.

Given that 5 people failed, although you didn't say how many were on the course, and one quit after a collision, (although that can hardly be assessed as the fault of the instructors or the level of instruction provided, it was perhaps a wise decision by that particular student). Presumably a higher number of students did indeed successfully compete the course.

So logic and rational thinking would lead one to conclude that the competency of the instructors and the level of instruction provided was at the VERY least acceptable. Now having been an instructor, I can attest that not all students learn using the same techniques nor at the same speed and level. In a one on one learning situation these same students seem to excel, and are successful. Perhaps that is where you fall in the learning spectrum, conversely these same students often don't excel and succeed in larger group instructional settings.

You feel that the fact that the school has provided you one retest and when you were still unable to complete the required steps to be judged successful, a cash grab because they say you must now retake the course. One quick question you kept referring to the "box portion" that you failed to complete to the instructors satisfaction on the retest. Did you complete it properly on the first failed attempt? I would assert (based upon the information later provided) that the MTO has set the standards the schools MUST adhere to, that it is indeed not a cash grab, but simply a requirement the school must follow to remain "certified" by the MTO.

As another poster has stated surely while you were waiting for both your tests you must have watched others who completed their testing successfully? How is it then that they presumably understood the instructions provided to them prior to the testing yet you failed to understand presumably the same instructions. I found it interesting that you referred to the instructor who was conducting your second failed attempt as "the chick". Is that because you felt that as a woman she was unqualified to conduct the test? Is it "possible" that as she was providing you with the instructions you simply (albeit perhaps subconsciously), had decided that you didn't need to listen to a "chick"?

What will the outcome be if when you arrive at the MTO testing facility you are assigned a "chick" to conduct your road test? The course test is conducted in a "controlled environment" the MTO test will involve at the end, at least a one block road riding.

Now having read all your posts very carefully, is it possible, (given that several others did indeed pass the exact same course with the same instructors, and presumably the same instructions being provided), that you are unable to grasp the concept of safe riding, in a prescribed manner, during a stressful period, (testing)? This same course has been taken by in all likelihood several thousand students some of whom have passed first attempt, some who have passed with a retest, likely, a much smaller number who failed twice and retook the course, Perhaps some who took the MTO test and passed, and some of whom after careful consideration having failed twice decided perhaps riding wasn't for them.

The course and the testing are designed to ensure a rider develops and can complete safe riding techniques, while being able to follow instructions, under stressful conditions, (testing).

Good luck whatever route you choose to follow.
 
OP, I can't comment on your riding skills with not having seen them, but let me share 2 points from a relevant background as a commercial truck driving instructor.

1. Any school these days is governed by their curriculum, which is scrutinized by the government. Think of it as a consumer protection mechanism; if you pay company x a fixed amount of money, you get x amount of training on the parameters outlined in the course. It is a fairly rigid parameter, but it is intended to give equal and fair access to the training as advertised. It is not remotely unusual for a re-take of an entire course if after several attempts the driver still has not met the standard.

2. Regarding the ability to pass the MTO test....I have lost count of how many pre-hire exams I have seen failed, or in particular students who have their full AZ license still come to a school, and need the full program, because they cannot find a job due to their pre-hire test performance. I appreciate the frustration, but in all honesty I can't see the wisdom in lowering the expectation by taking the easier test.

These schools provide tremendous value, and a safe exposure to the drills required, so why cheat yourself of that? It is entirely possible that your abilities are nowhere near as good as you think, hence the necessity to have trained eyes assisting you through the process. True story, we have had students that no matter how many training hours they got, they would never meet the standard. As a side note, it does very much appear that your focus is a little to far into the final destination than the overall process. New bike, insurance, etc before you even have an M2? Pretty solid recipe to have a short riding career before the barriers become overwhelming.
 

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