suzuki2000
Well-known member
Once that sweet sweet taste of the $ gets into the trough, you wait, the definition of “safety zones” will get a little broader…
It will looks just like pigs going to the trough.
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Looks like Photo Radar is coming back..!
- Thread starter kiwi
- Start date
Once that sweet sweet taste of the $ gets into the trough, you wait, the definition of “safety zones” will get a little broader…
It will looks just like pigs going to the trough.
All sorts of speculation and guessing going on here already. Not surprised by it whatsoever, but to dismiss something beneficial on the sole basis of assumptions on what may or may not happen in the future is a bit of a stretch.
As it stands it benefits us, keeps people (and particularly kids) safe. Anyone who suggests that people driving like idiots in school zones isn't an issue either has their head stuck in the sand, or simply never goes near a school zone to see it. I live a block away from a public school (I'm on a crescent and the school is on the main street it joins) and it's a MAJOR issue - people blast along the thoroughfare at easily 30-40 over the limit. Regularly.
I wonder how people would feel if the financial penalty was taken away. I suggested back in the 90's when photo radar was last a thing that if the government financials (all the typical "pigs to the trough" comments) was removed and the penalty was solely points alone (so your insurance company gets you, not the government) people would probably STILL feel the same - it's the underlying "I don't want to get caught by a machine" that's the root complaint for most people...the "goverment pigs at the trough" excuse is simply exactly that - a convenient excuse.
People don't like getting speeding tickets, end of story.
As it stands it benefits us, keeps people (and particularly kids) safe. Anyone who suggests that people driving like idiots in school zones isn't an issue either has their head stuck in the sand, or simply never goes near a school zone to see it. I live a block away from a public school (I'm on a crescent and the school is on the main street it joins) and it's a MAJOR issue - people blast along the thoroughfare at easily 30-40 over the limit. Regularly.
I wonder how people would feel if the financial penalty was taken away. I suggested back in the 90's when photo radar was last a thing that if the government financials (all the typical "pigs to the trough" comments) was removed and the penalty was solely points alone (so your insurance company gets you, not the government) people would probably STILL feel the same - it's the underlying "I don't want to get caught by a machine" that's the root complaint for most people...the "goverment pigs at the trough" excuse is simply exactly that - a convenient excuse.
People don't like getting speeding tickets, end of story.
I live in a school zone too. And I've got a kid that rides a dirt bike up and down the street and I've got a young lady that sell drugs along with her boy friend and have her, the boy friend and others that rip it up down my street. And we have kids that don't go to school who are out during the day and weekends and all the time.
So yes, I'd love some LE to come down here and do some work.
Got a church a block over next to the school. Got frustrated drivers due to the cross walk and busses and kids and parents crossing the road and causing more traffic and slowing up folks trying to turn etc.
But, here is how I handle it.
I talk to the drivers that rip up the street. Working from home, they know who I am.
And they slow down.
The through way road a block over, I've taught the kids to pay attention. They don't cross unless it's safe and plenty of time.
Sorry, I agree better enforcement of the existing laws would be great.
But photo radar isn't going to do anything for my neighbourhood and safety. Zilch.
but you can rest assure I'll get dinged for a few tickets each year. And it won't be during school hours or during traffic density. It will be when there is no traffic, early in the morning or late at night. And I'm probably 10 over and it works well with the lights timed.
Again, well intended. But the revenue will be attractive and it won't make things any safer.
And I guarantee they will put them in all the favourite spots where speed is posted at 50 and everyone travels at 60-65.
When the bloody road should have a posted speed of 60.
Enforce speed where it's dangerous. Near high collision intersections. Where red lights are run.
You know the spots. Where you hear sirens. And get ****** off from backed up traffic for bad spots where accident happen because of speeding and stupidity.
This photo junk is just that. And you are very naive to think it will only be in the spots they intend.
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So yes, I'd love some LE to come down here and do some work.
Got a church a block over next to the school. Got frustrated drivers due to the cross walk and busses and kids and parents crossing the road and causing more traffic and slowing up folks trying to turn etc.
But, here is how I handle it.
I talk to the drivers that rip up the street. Working from home, they know who I am.
And they slow down.
The through way road a block over, I've taught the kids to pay attention. They don't cross unless it's safe and plenty of time.
Sorry, I agree better enforcement of the existing laws would be great.
But photo radar isn't going to do anything for my neighbourhood and safety. Zilch.
but you can rest assure I'll get dinged for a few tickets each year. And it won't be during school hours or during traffic density. It will be when there is no traffic, early in the morning or late at night. And I'm probably 10 over and it works well with the lights timed.
Again, well intended. But the revenue will be attractive and it won't make things any safer.
And I guarantee they will put them in all the favourite spots where speed is posted at 50 and everyone travels at 60-65.
When the bloody road should have a posted speed of 60.
Enforce speed where it's dangerous. Near high collision intersections. Where red lights are run.
You know the spots. Where you hear sirens. And get ****** off from backed up traffic for bad spots where accident happen because of speeding and stupidity.
This photo junk is just that. And you are very naive to think it will only be in the spots they intend.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If the goal really is to keep kids safe then making a cruiser or two along with some cops in hi-viz gear aiming radar guns at traffic blatantly obvious would slow traffic and serve the goal of safety far more than an unmarked minivan surreptitiously snapping pics and offenders receiving tickets in the mail a week or more after speeding through a school zone.
It's about grabbing cash, nothing more.
Yeah, that kinda happens now. About once every 8-10 weeks I see cruisers hiding around the corners from 1 of the 2 local schools for a day or three and nabbing the egregious speeders.
And then 8-10 weeks of nothing again and everyone returns to status quo.
The idea of just plunking 2 cruisers and 2 or 3 officers in front of every school sounds like a great idea until you realize how costly that is. I wonder if anyone will take issue with their taxes going up a not insignificant amount to pay for that?
I'm okay with photo radar in school zones, and construction zones while work is in progress. But if it's a safety issue, they should have clear and obvious signage indicating when photo radar is active. Only the real idiots would continue to blast through the area.
I noticed photo radar warning signs during my trip to Arizona, and they seemed to be pretty effective at slowing traffic to the speed limit for the desired region. It appeared to be primarily fixed signage in school zones, and a mobile setup for construction zones. Cruising the highway from Phoenix up towards the Grand Canyon, approaching a construction zone there was a big portable sign indicating "Photo radar in use next 5 miles", and about 3 miles along there was a portable photo radar vehicle parked along the road. Probably not much of a revenue generator, but it certainly had the desired effect of slowing people down temporarily in the high(er) risk areas.
I do however have concerns that our Ontario government would try to make it a revenue tool rather than a safety tool, by being less than forthright about where and when it's being used. The goal should really be to have no tickets issued as a result of giving everyone a heads up to slow down through the area.
I noticed photo radar warning signs during my trip to Arizona, and they seemed to be pretty effective at slowing traffic to the speed limit for the desired region. It appeared to be primarily fixed signage in school zones, and a mobile setup for construction zones. Cruising the highway from Phoenix up towards the Grand Canyon, approaching a construction zone there was a big portable sign indicating "Photo radar in use next 5 miles", and about 3 miles along there was a portable photo radar vehicle parked along the road. Probably not much of a revenue generator, but it certainly had the desired effect of slowing people down temporarily in the high(er) risk areas.
I do however have concerns that our Ontario government would try to make it a revenue tool rather than a safety tool, by being less than forthright about where and when it's being used. The goal should really be to have no tickets issued as a result of giving everyone a heads up to slow down through the area.
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Face
Well-known member
Its niive to believe that photo radar would be obviously signed enough to slow traffic enough to achieve zero speeding. Current radar enforcement is about generating convictions and revenue. If it was about safety, cruisers would be obvious in statistically dangerous locations. Instead cops hide where people feel comfortable driving higher then posted limits. Why would their philosophy change with tiny cameras?
Malks
Well-known member
Slippery slope in my opinion. The inclusion of "community safety zones" will allow installations at locations far from schools; see the example of Dundas Street West earlier in the thread. I agree with Brian P that there is no legislation that would prevent municipalities from expanding the program well beyond the intended target areas. All they need to do is pass a by-law at council to include more roadways as "community safety zones" and they will be able to install cameras.
I think Wynne has just created an issue that will hand the next election to the PC party. I guess I should thank her for that. In the meantime maybe I should look into this stuff. http://www.phantomplate.com/photoblocker.html
I think Wynne has just created an issue that will hand the next election to the PC party. I guess I should thank her for that. In the meantime maybe I should look into this stuff. http://www.phantomplate.com/photoblocker.html
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GVH
Well-known member
It's already in place. Little 2 x 2 or 3 x 3 yellow signs on lamp posts. They show your speed and then bright white flashes. Blinding and distracting. First accidents are already happening. Speed cameras case accidents. People see them last minute and jam the brakes. You want safety put up the sign warning of the speed cameras in the area. Shouldn't be to long before anti photo plate covers come back.
I have seen the cameras over Oakville and Ottawa.
If people are running into the back of others when they step on their brakes (for any reason) it means they were following too close. It's rather specious to put the blame on anything except the person who was tailgating, distracted, or likely both.
I've seen speed cameras work great in Australia when I was there years ago. But they were signed damned well and everyone knew they were there. If you were stupid enough to blow through them, then you deserve a ticket.
Their signage went like this IIRC:
Sign #1 - Photo radar in 1000m
Sign #2 - Photo radar in 500m
Sign #3 - Photo radar in 250m
People would slow down through this section, and then pick back up. But all their cameras were clearly signed.
As for school zones and such. Definitely a major problem with idiots all around. We all saw the footage of the little girl that almost got taken out by the Mazda 6. However...the little girl darted out into traffic with ZERO awareness of what's going on. AND the bus driver did not have the STOP sign out for a long time. It's one example, and I know there's tons of near misses every day unfortunately.
Driver looked like they were speeding, but they were also aware enough to swerve around the little girl (thank God she stopped in time when she heard the honk).
IMO drivers are not always the ones to blame. Similar to this whole 'pedestrians injured safety blitz'...let's see how many of those injuries are pedestrians that just walk out in front of traffic where they don't look up or care what's coming, or how many of them actually get injured at intersections instead of jaywalking blindly and assuming all cars will see them and stop accordingly.
EDUCATION is key to the solution to this problem. Fines, tickets, points, cameras will not solve it if people just don't want to, or know to change their behaviour. Getting a ticket 3 weeks after an infraction will not change behaviour.
Their signage went like this IIRC:
Sign #1 - Photo radar in 1000m
Sign #2 - Photo radar in 500m
Sign #3 - Photo radar in 250m
People would slow down through this section, and then pick back up. But all their cameras were clearly signed.
As for school zones and such. Definitely a major problem with idiots all around. We all saw the footage of the little girl that almost got taken out by the Mazda 6. However...the little girl darted out into traffic with ZERO awareness of what's going on. AND the bus driver did not have the STOP sign out for a long time. It's one example, and I know there's tons of near misses every day unfortunately.
Driver looked like they were speeding, but they were also aware enough to swerve around the little girl (thank God she stopped in time when she heard the honk).
IMO drivers are not always the ones to blame. Similar to this whole 'pedestrians injured safety blitz'...let's see how many of those injuries are pedestrians that just walk out in front of traffic where they don't look up or care what's coming, or how many of them actually get injured at intersections instead of jaywalking blindly and assuming all cars will see them and stop accordingly.
EDUCATION is key to the solution to this problem. Fines, tickets, points, cameras will not solve it if people just don't want to, or know to change their behaviour. Getting a ticket 3 weeks after an infraction will not change behaviour.
-D-
Banned
Easy fix that makes money for the city...
ZERO tolerance school zones.
In school areas- post up some signs (no u turns during x times, drop off on 1 side of street only)
Post the speed limit with large visible signs
install crosswalks (flashing lights)
post signs of min ticket costs under the larger speed limit sign
Now...hand out tickets $500 first offense and 3 points
2nd offense $1000 and 6 points
3rd offense $2500 fine and license suspended for 10 days and car impounded
99.9% of the problem solved imo
That idea makes money for the cops to be there and also if you are caught the police have a simple way to deal with offender.
Those drivers KNOW what they are doing is wrong, they don't care...education is great but ignorant and dumb ppl don't care about that...they do care about $$$ and points.
ZERO tolerance school zones.
In school areas- post up some signs (no u turns during x times, drop off on 1 side of street only)
Post the speed limit with large visible signs
install crosswalks (flashing lights)
post signs of min ticket costs under the larger speed limit sign
Now...hand out tickets $500 first offense and 3 points
2nd offense $1000 and 6 points
3rd offense $2500 fine and license suspended for 10 days and car impounded
99.9% of the problem solved imo
That idea makes money for the cops to be there and also if you are caught the police have a simple way to deal with offender.
Those drivers KNOW what they are doing is wrong, they don't care...education is great but ignorant and dumb ppl don't care about that...they do care about $$$ and points.
I'm against it because it is never about safety but rather is a revenue generation scheme masquerading as a safety tool.
Here is some interesting information:
http://nophotoradar.ca/
..Tom
Here is some interesting information:
http://nophotoradar.ca/
..Tom
the UK is infested with these things but they are signposted everywhere too so if you do get a ticket you only have yourself to blame.
mistersouthpaw
Well-known member
The most dangerous drivers in school zones are parents jostling for position while dropping off their kids. School buses themselves are a separate class of menace since they roam more widely. Which is sort of amusing, considering the calls for SAFETY!
I'm amazed the best we can come up with is cameras. Think about the endless junkets enjoyed by councillors and MPs, who claim to be "studying" other cities. Surely someone had a few ideas? Then again, the only imagination left in the civil service seems to be reserved for mining benefits and pensions.
I'm amazed the best we can come up with is cameras. Think about the endless junkets enjoyed by councillors and MPs, who claim to be "studying" other cities. Surely someone had a few ideas? Then again, the only imagination left in the civil service seems to be reserved for mining benefits and pensions.
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kwtoxman
Well-known member
It's not even cameras, just speed cameras. People can stop in the middle of the road, do dangerous u-turns, drive backwards down the road, double park, weave or show obvious impairment, etc, and none of it will be enforced. Total cash grab and not about safety.
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