Long Term Care | GTAMotorcycle.com

Long Term Care

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nobbie48

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If there was to be an intelligent discussion on the subject it should have happened 50+ years ago. Our medical system was in chaos and Covid blew it open. It is still in chaos but we are getting used to it like we get used to hour long commutes that should be 30 minutes.

We found out that LTC facilities were understaffed and it was volunteers that kept the demented from starving. Put food in front of a person with dementia and they might just look at it. It could take an hour to spoon feed them. Or they could eat themselves sick.

We found out that part time regulations were being abused.

We realized that commercially run facilities only existed if they made profits.

LTC varies. Some residents just need someone to cook and clean for them and would be fine with a part time maid and a dining room.

Others need feeding, diapers, transportation from chair to bed.

Some become violent.

Health care has people living longer so we are seeing more of the above.

It isn't just the old. I don't recall hearing about allergies when I was a kid but now it's apparently rare for a classroom without someone carrying an epi-pen.

I never heard about autism as a kid. Has the economy forced couples to delay having kids until they are at high risk of a challenged offspring? I'm totally ignorant on the subject.

One person told me it was over $7,000 a month for LTC for a person with dementia. A single person gets about $2000 a month CPP & OAS. There are other top ups but still far short of the $7,000. What are reasonable expectations?

Granny is living in a $1.5 Million home and the proceeds from it would last forever to cover her care. But the house is a sacred trust to go to the kids, not what I feel was originally intended for the cap gain clause. Who should pick up the tab for granny's LTC?

What if granny is in a rented apartment?
 
Long term care (and hospitals) are in significantly worse shape now then before the pandemic. The staffing shortages are constant even without illnesses going around. The staff is far less experienced due to retirements or switching areas of work. If the pandemic hit now the way it did 3 years ago, there would be a lot of death.
 
Given the reality of longer lifespan and a population glut going through, I still think LTC for the masses will be in terrible shape until there is a reasonable expansion of MAID. You fill out a form with your medical practitioner while cognizant that outlines conditions that you would not want to live with. When you cross the line you have defined (as determined by a small panel of medical practitioners) over the rainbow Bridge you go. Spending thousands a month to keep a zombie alive for years that pleads for death every day does no good for anyone.

Similar to brain death now, if the family really wants to keep them alive for longer, the financial burden is on the family. Public system needs to triage your patient.
 
d4rktrooper788 said:
I'd rather end it a couple years early than end up in one of those LTC places, to be quite honest.
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Many people feel the same way. With the way MAID is implemented currently, that is a very hard wish to satisfy within the confines of the medical system. Hell, even people that try the maid route can't get past the first round unless they meet the screening criteria which means they are on the way down. Many aren't mentally competent by the time the second round comes 90 days later. They are then left in purgatory to die naturally.
 
d4rktrooper788 said:
I'd rather end it a couple years early than end up in one of those LTC places, to be quite honest.
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I personally am not a fan of other people so communal living is a no go. I have never had a neighbor that I liked anywhere I've lived.

They hand out dilaudid to homeless people now. As it stands I think that I would rather be blissfully numb, camping on the shores of little lake over LTC or MAID. I wonder what kind of drugs they give homeless people in California? no winters there.
 
GreyGhost said:
Many people feel the same way. With the way MAID is implemented currently, that is a very hard wish to satisfy within the confines of the medical system. Hell, even people that try the maid route can't get past the first round unless they meet the screening criteria which means they are on the way down. Many aren't mentally competent by the time the second round comes 90 days later. They are then left in purgatory to die naturally.
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I see MAID as a step in the right direction but there are many more steps needed to make it better. It had to start somewhere and there are still lots of people that don't want to improve it, instead they want it gone.
 
I was very fortunate, my Dad was in Sunnybrook Veteran's Centre for the last few years of his life.
Even through COVID he got the best care anywhere.
Private LTC (see: Mike Harris) is for the wealthy, the rest of us can go rot.
Until there is a massive revamp in the system we're doomed.
 
nobbie48 said:
One person told me it was over $7,000 a month for LTC for a person with dementia. A single person gets about $2000 a month CPP & OAS. There are other top ups but still far short of the $7,000. What are reasonable expectations?
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In LTC it's about $3000/mo. A retirement home is a little different, they charge about $8000 for the basic plan, then add $4-6K/mo. for al-la-carte services (like a 3rd diaper change, delivery of meds, shower assistance, feeding assistance, haircuts and shaves.)
nobbie48 said:
Granny is living in a $1.5 Million home and the proceeds from it would last forever to cover her care. But the house is a sacred trust to go to the kids, not what I feel was originally intended for the cap gain clause. Who should pick up the tab for granny's LTC?
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Granny probably paid her fair share of taxes over the years, but the public didn't give her the $1.5million home. Just like health care, she's entitled to the same basics as everyone else.
nobbie48 said:
What if granny is in a rented apartment?
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LTC fees for low income are based on your ability to pay. $ 1.5 million dollar granny pays $2K a month for basic LTC, trailer park granny pays teh same but can apply for a reduced rate that is geared to income. $1.5 granny may be able to afford luxuries like a private room, hair dressing, and paid excursions.

They both get the same standard of care and access to the same facilities.
 
TK4 said:
Private LTC (see: Mike Harris) is for the wealthy, the rest of us can go rot.
Click to expand...
I am under the impression that the "for profit" LTC facilities had the worst record during covid.
... which kinda put a weird slant on the outcomes. vis et vis income.
If you're poor and qualify for government assistance and got a spot in a government LTC: you did fine
If you're rich and can afford a top tier facility: you probably did fine
If you worked hard all your life, paid your own bills at the LTC facility, lived the Conservative lifestyle, lived in a "private sector is gonna save us all" LTC facility: you're probably dead now
 
woot said:
Long term care (and hospitals) are in significantly worse shape now then before the pandemic. The staffing shortages are constant even without illnesses going around. The staff is far less experienced due to retirements or switching areas of work. If the pandemic hit now the way it did 3 years ago, there would be a lot of death.
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I don't know how it was pre-pandemic, but my father had to go into LTC in January.

I have nothing but good things to say about the level of care and compassion. The PSWs are cheerful, and they don't often change.
 
bitzz said:
I am under the impression that the "for profit" LTC facilities had the worst record during covid.
... which kinda put a weird slant on the outcomes. vis et vis income.
Click to expand...
On the surface it's fair to conclude private LTC facilities had more tragic outcomes than did public. Here's a sheet that nets it all out:

McGinty, not Harris privatized health care in Ontario. As part of the licencing deal, McGinty forced operators to take over and operate all of the Provinces outdated facilities, then funded new facilities at the municipal level. The older homes lack the physical distancing space, modern HVAC, and in many cases are remotely located making it difficult to attract staff.

The main difference in pandemic performance was the age and style of home and not who was operating them. Considering all the old homes are run privately, it's easy to draw a conclusion without looking deeper into the cause.

A good example is a modern LTC home next door to me -- they had 92 residents, 26 of whom died with COVID, as did 6 staff. (The attached sheet shows 19 deaths -- the actual count was 26)
bitzz said:
If you're poor and qualify for government assistance and got a spot in a government LTC: you did fine
If you're rich and can afford a top tier facility: you probably did fine
If you worked hard all your life, paid your own bills at the LTC facility, lived the Conservative lifestyle, lived in a "private sector is gonna save us all" LTC facility: you're probably dead now
Click to expand...
Which LTC facility you end up in is up to you -- gov or private, your choice. When applying you list your top 5 picks, and the LTC coordinator gives you a wait time estimate, million dollar granny follows the same selection and priority process as trailer park granny. Most applicants have some time to prepare, and do not require immediate LTC at the time of application. If LTC need is urgent, then you can go within a few days to a temporary facility within 75km of home, of within a few weeks you are likely to get into one of your top 3 pics.

There is also home care, but not many families are up for that these days. If you opt for home care, you will get a PSW for 2-8 hours a day, 7 days a week., all the nursing you need, a hospital bed, lift, wheel chair, and some tax breaks for accessibility changes you must make to your house.
 
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Mad Mike said:
On the surface it's fair to conclude private LTC facilities had more tragic outcomes than did public. Here's a sheet that nets it all out:

McGinty, not Harris privatized health care in Ontario. As part of the licencing deal, McGinty forced operators to take over and operate all of the Provinces outdated facilities, then funded new facilities at the municipal level. The older homes lack the physical distancing space, modern HVAC, and in many cases are remotely located making it difficult to attract staff.

The main difference in pandemic performance was the age and style of home and not who was operating them. Considering all the old homes are run privately, it's easy to draw a conclusion without looking deeper into the cause.

A good example is a modern LTC home next door to me -- they had 92 residents, 26 of whom died with COVID, as did 6 staff. (The attached sheet shows 19 deaths -- the actual count was 26)

Which LTC facility you end up in is up to you -- gov or private, your choice. When applying you list your top 5 picks, and the LTC coordinator gives you a wait time estimate, million dollar granny follows the same selection and priority process as trailer park granny. Most applicants have some time to prepare, and do not require immediate LTC at the time of application. If LTC need is urgent, then you can go within a few days to a temporary facility within 75km of home, of within a few weeks you are likely to get into one of your top 3 pics.

There is also home care, but not many families are up for that these days. If you opt for home care, you will get a PSW for 2-8 hours a day, 7 days a week., all the nursing you need, a hospital bed, lift, wheel chair, and some tax breaks for accessibility changes you must make to your house.
Click to expand...

Harris is (or was) on the board of Chartwell during COVID, Chairman I believe. There is also money being made in private nursing by.... Not about what he did as a politician, about what he does.

A lot of the problems LTC experienced during COVID was the practice of support workers working multiple jobs (as the pay was so low) at multiple homes. In many cases early on they unknowingly due to the system were carriers infecting multiple homes.
 
Mad Mike said:
Granny probably paid her fair share of taxes over the years, but the public didn't give her the $1.5million home. Just like health care, she's entitled to the same basics as everyone else.
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We have to cross over into our housing crisis on this one and ask the reason we have tax free cap gains on the principle residence. Was the original idea it to make granny rich or keep her from becoming a burden on society?

Our first home (1965) was rented in decent, good walking score Parkdale and valued at $15,000. The cost of living since then has gone up X ten. The house should be worth $150,000. It isn't. It's worth over $1,500,000. Tax free.

If the house was worth $150,000 and granny couldn't handle the stairs or was losing it the house could be sold and the $150 K put into an investment that, along with CPP, OAS, GIS and other financial boosts, keep her in decent care for the rest of her life. There would be no instant $150,000 freebie for the kids.

It isn't $150,000, it's $1,500,000.

More than one senior has been pushed into a retirement home so the family house can be sold and the money gifted to the kids to invest or squander.

If the proceeds of granny's house went into a RIF, she gets a decent monthly income for care and the kids get the dregs when she breathes her last.

Let granny live in her $1.5 M home as long as she wants to or can. If cash flow is tight she doesn't even have to pay the taxes. They can be dealt with when she sells or passes on. Probate isn't a huge amount compared to the potential capital gains.

If granny dies at 80 her offspring will be around 50 and should have built their own equity. If more education is needed that bus is gone.

Canada had a good record for socialism when it was a safety net. More and more the safety net is being taken for granted as expectations rise. The safety net is a life preserver that keeps you from drowning when your boat sinks. It doesn't buy you a new bigger boat and membership at a yacht club.

I know a guy that is worth about $2 million, largely the family home. When he dies his only child has to come up with the probate fees which could be covered by some other small assets. If the house capital gains were taxed upon death the kid would get about 75%, $1.5 million. Far better than he deserves.

The kid is nearing 50 Y.O. and has never written a mortgage or rent cheque in his life.

The government gets a half million that they can invest in education, healthcare or sadly, lining the pockets of their friends.Still, it's a penny or so the government doesn't have to pick out of the pocket of each and every Canadian.

Am I for the change in the tax free cap gain? Not if I'm the only one and not if the recipients of the services don't want to put in a little sweat equity. Not if the governments continue to preach rights without responsibility.
 
If granny has a 1.5 house and needs the cash , nest egg over . And stop with the “let’s take the cap gains away” , it’s the last vestiges of a system to encourage home ownership . 1.5m in a decent market invested gets granny her LTC covered . Add her CPP and OAS and she can get her hair done .
There are huge gaps between Retirement living and LTC , as LTC is subsidized to a degree , and maybe if granny lived at jimmys house , Jimmy could keep the cottage , but that’s not gonna happen is it . Too many socialists would be Canadas problem right now .


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