Interim councillor calling for 'O Canada' change | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Interim councillor calling for 'O Canada' change

The real problem is the whole structure.. The voting system. The politicians... They will sell their *** for the votes... In theory any clan of people bound together by ethnicity or religion or any other thing that brings them together are able to bully our govermental system because its all about the MOFO vote!! Not sure whats a better idea
So you are saying that having politicians be afraid of not getting re-elected when they do not represent the majority of their constituents ideologies is a bad thing? It is called democracy and you can not pick which aspects of it are good or bad according to your interests.

Mmmkkaaayyyyy


..and I kid you not, got in the elevator today and a lady was complaining that she had 5 weeks of vacations this year and one left over from last year and she could not take all her vacation this year again...
 
There seems to be this new idea among the new generation like this guy Ashkan who is posting... The idea that we need to please everyone and make everything fair and this is the future..

No he isn't saying that. But in dealing with the government people should be dealt with fairly. You agree with that.

By this I mean my application for a building permit should be considered on its merits my colour/heritage/gender/sexual preference/beliefs should have no impact it. Saw with when we are dealing with legal issues.
That after all is government job.

What he is saying is that due to the appeal to god in the anthem the government document this gives an tacit approval of a religious nature. Either that belief in a god is preferable to none or an explicit preference to the Christian religion (that is defiantly apparent in the french version). I don't believe that personally thats what people have in mind when singing NOW(A small minority will but that not important) but it was changed from the original secular version to include an appeal of a religious nature so in some people that was defiantly someones intention.

BTW im going to say again before I get jumped on. I currently an neither pro or against changing the anthem for any reason.
 
So you are saying that having politicians be afraid of not getting re-elected when they do not represent the majority of their constituents ideologies is a bad thing? It is called democracy and you can not pick which aspects of it are good or bad according to your interests.

Mmmkkaaayyyyy


..and I kid you not, got in the elevator today and a lady was complaining that she had 5 weeks of vacations this year and one left over from last year and she could not take all her vacation this year again...

You really did not get what i wrote and meant to say.

"Democracy" is another means of shutting your mouth and keeping you quiet

Where was democracy when the hst was brought in?

Where was democracy when they put up the fences in the g20

Where is democracy when i can order $50 medicine for $4 from abroad

Where is democracy when you wait 10 ours in the emergency because they dont have "enough nurses".

Emergency wait times is the hospitals trump card in increasing its budget every year.

Did we vote for this way of life? Were we told about this pre election? Were we given any chance to vote on things that really matter?

I can list to many thing but it will fall on deaf ears.

Democracy only exist so that you can vote and feel like you have a say in HOW your country is run.

How many politicians keep their pre election promises? Its a load of crap.

You just believe in things because the idealogy they gave us in school said this was

Dont start with democracy to me


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
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And if there is democracy then let us the people vote on the idea of whats in our anthem..

Not some greasy politician trying to win downtown yuppie bleeding heart votes by back footing a law to pass while you are worried about your facebook.

Where was democracy when the liberals decided to teach our kids a new sex cirriculum..

Did you even know that kathlyn winns chief education advisor. The one who along with wynne decided to teach grade 5 kids its okay to have a sex change was charged with child porn??

http://m.torontosun.com/2013/07/08/...prof-benjamin-levin-facing-child-porn-charges

Did you have a democratic say in this?




"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
You were pretty specific about not liking the vote system so i responded specifically to that. I do not have the time, or patience or (to be honest) the care to discuss all the problems related to how politicians misuse the trust the public puts on them, my point being the issue is not the system but the people in it.

Canadians need to learn to vote in my opinion, we keep forgetting and voting for the same people over and over again.

Meh, all in all we have it pretty sweet in here

Edit: to your latest comment, what thefunk does democracy have to do with the article you posted? I don't like the ******* they promoted as the chif of police, I can not blame democracy on that, can I?

You really did not get what i wrote and meant to say.

"Democracy" is another means of shutting your mouth and keeping you quiet

Where was democracy when the hst was brought in?

Where was democracy when they put up the fences in the g20

Where is democracy when i can order $50 medicine for $4 from abroad

Where is democracy when you wait 10 ours in the emergency because they dont have "enough nurses".

Emergency wait times is the hospitals trump card in increasing its budget every year.

Did we vote for this way of life? Were we told about this pre election? Were we given any chance to vote on things that really matter?

I can list to many thing but it will fall on deaf ears.

Democracy only exist so that you can vote and feel like you have a say in HOW your country is run.

How many politicians keep their pre election promises? Its a load of crap.

You just believe in things because the idealogy they gave us in school said this was

Dont start with democracy to me


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
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We are off topic now... I dont want to turn the thread off topic. You have your views i have mine so be it.

Then lets just have a nation wide vote on this O Canada issue. And that will solve everything


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
I think we agree more than what you think, anyways - They should let the Canadian Anthem be and worry about the real issues and get a life.



We are off topic now... I dont want to turn the thread off topic. You have your views i have mine so be it.

Then lets just have a nation wide vote on this O Canada issue. And that will solve everything


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
Your arguments are proof as to why a sharp tongue should never be equated with intelligence.

But don't let logic stop you... it's GTAM after all. Lol

Right. I should'nt argue with "Not sure if making effort to be stupid." with Stats about the population of religious diversities in Canada in a discussion regarding Canadian anthem and god. I should've just used similar language. It'd be a more effective way or debating with some.

After all, no matter how good you are at chess, you cant play chess with a pigeon. Two different sets of rules ;)
 
We are off topic now... I dont want to turn the thread off topic. You have your views i have mine so be it.

Then lets just have a nation wide vote on this O Canada issue. And that will solve everything


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"

I don't think referendums are always the key in this.

Canada used to have anti-miscegenation laws it would have been put up to a vote it may not have passed. Same with gay marriage. Thats part of the issue of democracies sometimes the Majorities legally repress the minorities through the vote.

not saying anyone is being oppressed here BTW just pointing that out.
 
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You do not deserve to live in such a country.
I cannot stand ungrateful people who always find something to complain about rather than something to be grateful for.

If people never complained and if there wasn't a constant course correction, we would still have slavery, sexism, rape, witch hunts, child soldiers, child brides, men with multiple wives and a church, mosque or some other religious nutjob presiding over all of us...

More specifically, if people didn't care and just lived without thinking about the policies of their governments, we would never have the renaissance and the state and church would still be one entity. The reason we have a separation between church and state or really any progress in history is because some realized the flaws of the statuesque and challenged it.

You are right though, this is a great country and i'm very grateful to live here. That being said, no country or policy is perfect and we need to constantly challenge our old beliefs and hold them up to the more modern and progressive ideologies. Just like old policies, an anthem written decades ago does not necessarily reflect today's society so there is nothing wrong with revisiting it and possibly changing a few thing.

Don't forget, it wasnt too long ago that homosexuals were treated as inferiors and gay marriage was illegal. Old ideas, policies and even anthems are subject to change as the society the represent changes.
 
Totally agree. let's change O' Canada to make the Muslims feel happy.

I dont know if that was sarcasm or not but i never said make Muslims happy. In fact, im very much against preferential treatments to any religious groups, including Muslims. If anyone wants to live by Sharia laws, they should consider living in an islamic country that in run by those rules. Canada is a secular country and i really hope it stays that way.
Same goes for other religions and their followers.
 
I stand corrected and therefore, i personally am hoping for it to become more and more secular, similar to Scandinavian countries.

Why dont you move to Scandinavia and try to change their national anthem.. You can go into Sweden and ask them to forget about their past and dont teach kids about the Viking expeditions. The Vikings raped and destroyed everything including their own woman.. I am pretty sure they dint like gays either...




"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
Why dont you move to Scandinavia and try to change their national anthem.. You can go into Sweden and ask them to forget about their past and dont teach kids about the Viking expeditions. The Vikings raped and destroyed everything including their own woman.. I am pretty sure they dint like gays either...




"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"

You just proved my point. There are many things that while a part of a nation's history are also horrible acts done by them in the past. Just because something is a part of our history (in this case god) doesn't mean we have to praise it and constantly drag it along with us. Learn from the mistakes in the past and correct them in the future.

Also, speaking of keeping up with tradition, god was never a part of our anthem until it was added later.
"“O Canada”, originally written by Robert Stanley Weir in 1908, were altered many times before being enshrined in the National Anthem Act of 1980 [3]. In fact, the original version of “O Canada” contained no mention of God – Weir’s verse, “O Canada, glorious and free”, was later altered to “God keep our land glorious and free” [3,4]. Thus, the reference to God itself is the product of an amendment to the original lyrics. Returning to Weir’s original words would allow us to simultaneously update the anthem to better reflect modern Canada’s diversity of beliefs, and honour an older, secular Canadian heritage.
"

So even if you wanna keep up with the past and history and heritage, lets go back to before it was altered to include god.
 
Here is a couple of good reasons why Canada should remove god from it's anthem.

[h=3]1. Canada’s national anthem currently invokes the blessing of a deity who is dismissed as non-existent by 1 in 4 Canadians.[/h]In the 2001 Census of Canada, 16.2% of Canadians (4.8 million people) reported having no religion, a 43.9% increase since the previous census in 1991 [1]. Non-religious Canadians comprised the largest identifiable group adfter Christians, outnumbering Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Sikhs combined [1]. A recent poll, conducted by Harris/Decima in May 2008, found that 23% of Canadians (and 36% of Canadians under age 25) say that they do not believe in any god [2]. Thus, Canada’s current national anthem puts a sizeable fraction of the population in a position where showing love for their country also entails invoking a deity whose existence they reject. This barrier to non-theistic Canadians showing their patriotism is both unfortunate and unnecessary.
Our national anthem is an important way for Canadians to show pride and respect for their country. Secularizing Canada’s anthem would make it easier for all Canadians — regardless of their views on religion — to show their patriotism.
[h=3]2. The Canadian Secular Alliance advocates returning to the original words of the anthem which existed prior to the introduction of a reference to God: “O Canada, glorious and free” instead of “God keep our land glorious and free”.[/h]The Canadian Secular Alliance recognizes that the mention of God in the anthem reflects Canada’s Christian heritage, and salutes the great historical contributions of Christian Canadians towards the building of our nation. However, Canada’s cultural and religious landscape has shifted significantly in modern times, and the anthem should be updated to reflect this reality.
Although many think it unprecedented to alter the lyrics of the anthem, the English lyrics to “O Canada”, originally written by Robert Stanley Weir in 1908, were altered many times before being enshrined in the National Anthem Act of 1980 [3]. In fact, the original version of “O Canada” contained no mention of God – Weir’s verse, “O Canada, glorious and free”, was later altered to “God keep our land glorious and free” [3,4]. Thus, the reference to God itself is the product of an amendment to the original lyrics. Returning to Weir’s original words would allow us to simultaneously update the anthem to better reflect modern Canada’s diversity of beliefs, and honour an older, secular Canadian heritage.
The French lyrics to O Canada contain extensive references to the religious imperialism that was widespread at the time they were written: “As in thy arm ready to wield the sword, so also is it ready to carry the cross”, and “Thy valour steeped in faith” [3]. Unlike the English lyrics, which can be made secular by returning to their original version, the French lyrics will require significant modification. This is a topic for a separate national debate.
[h=3]3. The mention of God in the anthem is not trivial – it has real social and political consequences.[/h]The Canadian Secular Alliance believes that in a pluralistic, liberal democracy like Canada, the government should take no official position on whether God exists, or which organized religion speaks on his behalf if he does. As a secular nation, Canadian public institutions – including its national anthem – should reflect that fact.
The mention of God in the anthem is often cited as evidence that Canada is a “Christian nation”, and used to argue for substantive public policies that undermine church-state separation. Thus, seemingly “trivial” issues of symbolism have a tendency to become relevant to highly non-trivial debates about government policy.
 
You just proved my point. There are many things that while a part of a nation's history are also horrible acts done by them in the past. Just because something is a part of our history (in this case god) doesn't mean we have to praise it and constantly drag it along with us. Learn from the mistakes in the past and correct them in the future.

Also, speaking of keeping up with tradition, god was never a part of our anthem until it was added later.
"“O Canada”, originally written by Robert Stanley Weir in 1908, were altered many times before being enshrined in the National Anthem Act of 1980 [3]. In fact, the original version of “O Canada” contained no mention of God – Weir’s verse, “O Canada, glorious and free”, was later altered to “God keep our land glorious and free” [3,4]. Thus, the reference to God itself is the product of an amendment to the original lyrics. Returning to Weir’s original words would allow us to simultaneously update the anthem to better reflect modern Canada’s diversity of beliefs, and honour an older, secular Canadian heritage.
"

So even if you wanna keep up with the past and history and heritage, lets go back to before it was altered to include god.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolphe-Basile_Routhier
 
Here is a couple of good reasons why Canada should remove god from it's anthem.

1. Canada’s national anthem currently invokes the blessing of a deity who is dismissed as non-existent by 1 in 4 Canadians.

So change it for the minority to the detriment of the majority. Yup, that makes sense..........

3. The mention of God in the anthem is not trivial – it has real social and political consequences.

Pray tell (you see what I did there...) exactly what negative social and political consequences are born by the fine citizens of this country by having the word "God" in the national anthem. (keeping in mind that 75% believe in a God as so clearly noted by your first point.

The Canadian Secular Alliance believes that in a pluralistic, liberal democracy like Canada, the government should take no official position on whether God exists, or which organized religion speaks on his behalf if he does. As a secular nation, Canadian public institutions – including its national anthem – should reflect that fact. The mention of God in the anthem is often cited as evidence that Canada is a “Christian nation”, and used to argue for substantive public policies that undermine church-state separation. Thus, seemingly “trivial” issues of symbolism have a tendency to become relevant to highly non-trivial debates about government policy.

Ah yes, the "Canadian Secular Alliance" speaking candidly about the damage caused by "God" being noted in the countries anthem. Such a credible objective group I'm sure.....
 

""O Canada" was proclaimed Canada's national anthem on July 1, 1980, 100 years after it was first sung on June 24, 1880. The music was composed by Calixa Lavallée, a well-known composer; French lyrics to accompany the music were written by Sir Adolphe-Basile Routhier. The song gained steadily in popularity. Many English versions have appeared over the years. The version on which the official English lyrics are based was written in 1908 by Mr. Justice Robert Stanley Weir. The official English version includes changes recommended in 1968 by a Special Joint Committee of the Senate and House of Commons. The French lyrics remain unaltered."

Straight from the government's website.

http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1359402373291/1359402467746#a1

The original version had no mention of god or any religious references.

<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 21.5999984741211px;">[video=youtube;ljBgMSB2QWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljBgMSB2QWs[/video]

 

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