How do you feel about the decline of petrol vehicles? | Page 18 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How do you feel about the decline of petrol vehicles?

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Joe Bass said:
I can get a quick charge using the "opportunity chargers" on my forklift in 15 mins. That will give me at least 2hours. Plug in every break and lunch and even a last leg battery can get my machine through the better part of a day.

I'm just waiting for a flux capacitor for my DeLorean

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Why are you waiting for some fancy flux whatever .... :) ...... Get your EV quick charge it for 15 mins and drive it for 2hrs. You can do that too .... and you will be going quicker than your forklift, although not by much. LOL
 
LePhillou said:
I'm hearing more and more about cricket/grasshopper protein in ads ... it's a thing. And honestly it's probably gonna happen
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Food will be much harder to change than transportation .... I know a good amount of people, who can do EV, Solar etc. ... but they will not give up meat. I am admittedly in the group. I could probably do it, but boy do I hate tofu anything. It would have to be a war situation, before I kiss goodbye meat ... :-( .... once born meat eater, always meat eater. I do love all sorts of veggies, I just cannot become vegan, that's all.
 
HarleyHare said:
Yes petrol is dying and within 25 years everything will be electric including motorcycles. Gone will be shifting but the bigger issue id, will motorcycles actually survive?

Everything will be like an Uber but no human driving it, and in the city we no longer need to own cars. Everything will be on-demand and just-in-time by self driving cars. Unless motorcycles can be self driving (I doubt it) the automated computer traffic network will not be able to factor in a rogue vehicle like motorcycle which is not linked in such as a computerized self driving car and which will also be linked into a traffic master brain.
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What's the point of self-riding bike? ... bikes 99% of us ride for fun. Pure toys. I guess self-riding toy ... Yeah, makes no sense to me.
 
mxs said:
Food will be much harder to change than transportation .... I know a good amount of people, who can do EV, Solar etc. ... but they will not give up meat. I am admittedly in the group. I could probably do it, but boy do I hate tofu anything. It would have to be a war situation, before I kiss goodbye meat ... :-( .... once born meat eater, always meat eater. I do love all sorts of veggies, I just cannot become vegan, that's all.
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Totally agree, food is more ingrained in culture. There's a more intimate relationship with food than car. After all food is necessary for survival.
Until laws allow crazy dangerous practices for meat production there probably won't be tons of momentum behind the meatless movement.

mxs said:
What's the point of self-riding bike? ... bikes 99% of us ride for fun. Pure toys. I guess self-riding toy ... Yeah, makes no sense to me.
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Oh definitely. But imagine all these uber-hailers who would prefer getting driven by themselves on a self driven bike on a nice summer day rather than deal with a whole car
 
I Googled some facts on hydrogen powered semis.

Perfectly viable for city use within the range of a filling station. Kinda the same as the Tesla semi at this point.

For cross country use, not so much.

hydrogensemi.jpg
 
The beauty of diesel: 600-1000 miles from a couple of saddle tanks carrying liquid at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. In a few minutes any hick can re-fill them anywhere in the country and the truck is ready to cover that distance again. Liquid that can be easily piped or tankered anywhere all over the continent. It's also handy that that fuel is derived from the same source that supplies the lubricants in the engine, gearbox and differentials.

Compared to cryogenic hydrogen tanks at 700-bar (10,000psi) or battery packs the size of a sleeper to do the same thing; it seems like we got a pretty good thing with smelly, simple ol' diesel.
 
Blackfin said:
it seems like we got a pretty good thing with smelly, simple ol' diesel.
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As someone who's been in the trade for more than 2 decades (so I'm not just talking out my ***, I actually have real world experience), don't get me wrong, I think the future is inevitably changing for the trucking industry as well, but the simple realities remain that whatever happens needs to be both realistic, and viable.

Electrification is only beginning to take baby-steps towards viability in short-haul/city environments, and it'll be the method that most fleets (for whom it's viable) will explore due to the simple fact that they can plug the trucks in at their own yard at the end of the day and they're good to go again in the morning.

The investment to install chargers is token compared to the logistics of trying to manage a fleet around 1 or 2 filling stations across the entire province...or actually spending the millions upon millions to install a hydrogen station of their own. And then there's that inconvenient reality about hydrogen being an order of magnitude more expensive than the cost of gasoline/diesel - in an industry with already razor thin margins fuel costs are the biggest expense on the ledger already.

And needless to say any company not within a 10-15 minutes drive of a hydrogen filling station is not going to buy a truck that is tethered to that certain geographic area.

Will we, inside the next decade (or possibly even 2) see a wholesale change from fossil fuels to electric in the trucking industry? Without some major breakthrough in the realities behind range and charging infrastructure, absolutely positively not.

That's not to say that it'll never happen though, it's just to say that it ain't going to happen quick, especially in an industry that's very adverse to change and has to be dragged kicking and screaming through every little technological leap.
 
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faster than you know

This week, Volvo is adding itself to the list of many truck manufacturers working on electric trucks.

The Swedish group says that it will bring the electric trucks to the road as soon as this year and start selling them next year.

Home Solar Power
Claes Nilsson, President Volvo Trucks, commented on the announcement:

“Electromobility is fully in line with Volvo Truck’s long term commitment for sustainable urban development and zero emissions. We belive in full electrification for urban distribution as a first step. However we are working with electrification for other transport applications. This is only the beginning.”

They will be starting with “medium-duty trucks in Europe.”

Jonas Odermalm, Head of product strategy medium-duty vehicles at Volvo Trucks, commented:

“Our technology and knowhow within electromobility are based on proven commercial solutions already in use on Volvo’s electric buses, and solutions that were introduced in Volvo’s hybrid trucks as far back as 2010. The vehicles themselves are only one part of what is needed for large-scale electrification to succeed.”

The company says that “a few selected reference customers” will get the new trucks by the end of the year before the electric trucks go for sales next year.
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https://electrek.co/2018/01/24/volvo-electric-trucks/

and cities will lead and force the issue...


Shenzhen shows the world how it’s done, electrifies all public transit with massive fleet of 16,000+ electric buses
Fred Lambert
- Dec. 28th 2017 11:57 am ET
@FredericLambert
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https://electrek.co/2017/12/28/shenzhen-electrifies-entire-public-transit-fleet-electric-buses/

A city twice the size of Toronto.

They now have 16,359 electric buses in operation around the city of 12 million people.

In order to achieve this goal, they invested hundreds of millions more than their usual fleet update to purchase a variety of different electric buses and charging stations.

The city has built 8,000 charge points at 510 bus charging stations in order to be able to charge roughly half the fleet at any given time.

They estimate that the fleet is saving 345,000 tons of fuel per year and it is reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 1.35 million tons.
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This was rwo years ago

Four major cities move to ban diesel vehicles by 2025
By Matt McGrath
Environment correspondent
2 December 201
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http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38170794

snip
The diesel ban is hugely significant. Carmakers will look at this decision and know it's just a matter of time before other city mayors follow suit.
The history of vehicle manufacture shows that firms that do not keep up with environmental improvements will fail in a global market. The biggest shapers of automobile design are not carmakers, but rulemakers.
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Bringing stuff to market, and then actually having companies use it is two different things.

And like I said, short haul vehicles like city tractors and buses (as per your article) are perfect current-day viable uses for large electric vehicles, but the long haul trucking industry is WAY different than anyone who doesn't work in the industry can even remotely understand.

I'm not pooh-poohing the technology...clearly I'm very pro-EV, but as I've said time and time before, I'm also a realist, and I do know that the realities behind what the long haul trucking industry needs today vs what current battery technology and infrastructure can provide today are not even close to meshing.
 
Long haul hybrids are already present in "to be produced" from from Volvo and on the near term radar for others.
A combination of the torque of an electric motor for acceleration and the "sipping fuel" aspect of constant state diesel engine is a very attractive mix


Electric Class 8 vehicles are likely to make an appearance in the North American and European longhaul markets around 2020 or 2021, Thomas said. “Initially, this will be at very low volume but may begin to register from around 2025 as [electric] truck purchase costs begin to decline due to battery improvements.”

Cummins, a major supplier of diesel and natural gas engines for the trucking industry, is working on a plug-in hybrid driveline, which provides greater range capability than that of a full-battery electric vehicle.

“A downsized engine acts as a generator to supply power to the vehicle, and this enables the vehicle to switch between battery-*only power, diesel engine power or a blend of engine and battery power,” Thomas said.

Peterbilt is working with strategic partners to develop several electric and hybrid-electric powertrain configurations.

“Depending on market acceptance, some of the technologies can be ready within the next few years,” Kahn said.

Given current technology, longhaul customers most likely will benefit from a hybrid configuration, which uses a smaller motor generator and battery pack to provide up to 5% driving benefit with traffic stop/start and a quieter last-mile delivery, Kahn said.
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https://www.gladstein.org/industry-looks-beyond-batteries-power-longhaul-electric-tractors/

I can see a point at which tractors will have enough range for EV only operation in the cities while hybrid on the long haul.

That said tho .....autonomous tractors are the real disruptors in the near term as drivers are a relatively high cost.

Even on the high seas....

The electric revolution is coming to freighters and cruise ships — Quartz
https://qz.com/.../the-electric-revolution-is-coming-to-freighters-and-cruise-ships/
27 Jul 2017 - One of the most ancient forms of transportation is joining the 21st century. Cruise ship, ferry, and cargo ship-builders are developing hybrid and electric ships to reduce reliance on fuels like diesel and heavy fuel oil that power most large vessels. The pollution left in their wake has been tied to premature ...
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China's first all-electric cargo ship is going to be used to transport coal ...
https://qz.com/.../chinas-first-all-electric-cargo-ship-is-going-to-be-used-to-transport-c...
23 Nov 2017 - China, already the world’s biggest electric-vehicle market, is now using battery power to fuel cargo shipping as well. A Chinese company has built a 2,000 metric-ton (2,204 tons) all-electric cargo ship, which was launched from the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou in mid ..
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.

One of the major drivers is the trasmutation of the fossil fuel energy giants to "transportation" giants.
Very risky if they don't as investors don't like the long term of FF.

If the New York lawsuit against Exxon and others succeed.........

It took the courts to get SO2 under control ( acid rain ). Next 5-7 years ...interesting times.
 
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Blackfin said:
The beauty of diesel: 600-1000 miles from a couple of saddle tanks carrying liquid at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. In a few minutes any hick can re-fill them anywhere in the country and the truck is ready to cover that distance again. Liquid that can be easily piped or tankered anywhere all over the continent. It's also handy that that fuel is derived from the same source that supplies the lubricants in the engine, gearbox and differentials.

Compared to cryogenic hydrogen tanks at 700-bar (10,000psi) or battery packs the size of a sleeper to do the same thing; it seems like we got a pretty good thing with smelly, simple ol' diesel.
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And....that fuel does not have to be dino oil based....bio fuel is coming along that will run just fine in a turbo diesel

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So after all that talk is there anybody left who still doubts the value of a carbon tax, and letting the market decide which fuels work best for each usage scenario?
 
fastar1 said:
The market exists to serve us, not the other way around.
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I'd much rather see tax incentives for
investment in renewables technology

than a carbon tax that will be passed onto consumers

neither of those scenarios are purely market driven

a market driven energy economy would
be where we wait for peak oil to make
alternatives affordable

agree we need to get ahead of that for the sake of the planet


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JavaFan said:
I'd much rather see tax incentives for
investment in renewables technology

than a carbon tax that will be passed onto consumers

neither of those scenarios are purely market driven

a market driven energy economy would
be where we wait for peak oil to make
alternatives affordable

agree we need to get ahead of that for the sake of the planet


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Invest in which technologies? On that question I refer you to the opinion vomitus of this thread. And who is there who's very well informed on the industries and the technologies yet can not benefit personally, who gets to make the call where the money goes?

This is much further from a market optimized approach than a simple carbon tax.
 
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