sokay
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Glanbrook homeowner charged with second degree murder!
- Thread starter Skully
- Start date
sokay
What right does that guy have in his property, in his truck at 3am?
None you are trying to make a false dichotomy. You can attempt to stop property theft you can even make citizens arrests and restrain them but you cannot use a lethal weapon in a case when your life isn't threatened.
Now if he goes out with his gun and the guy pulls a gun or possibly when a knife in the right situations things might have been different but there is no indication of a threat that met the requirements for the escalation.
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Not really. It's a country area where people are not in close proximity. The only reason he will be there is for malicious intend. If I see someone in my property in the middle of the night, in the middle of bumfuk. I won't know his intentions. He could want to ram my truck into the middle of the house or fire bomb me in my sleep
Where would lethal force be justified where a human life was not under immediate threat?
A) You see some idiot about to dump a tub of live Asian carp into the Humber River and you can't stop him any other way. Eco disaster if you don't stop him.
B) Someone is about to throw a pail of acid at the Mona Lisa.
C) Someone about to blow up an unoccupied bridge or building.
No immediate threat to human life but potentially billions or trillions in damages. I'm not saying the above or similar wouldn't have long term health issues including premature death.
BTW I vote yes to A & B and maybe to C, depending if I have a use for the structure.
Fine get ready to prove in court that you fear was reasonable as per Canadian case law.
https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/5505/index.do
"It cannot be reasonable to kill another merely to prevent a crime which is directed only against property."
Under Canadian law NO to all moral discussion on at least B) might be interesting tho we can sit here and make up hypotheticals all day and as a form of mental Masterbation that might be fun but based on case law no to all at least for civilians.
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He was not defending "self".
Slowandsteady
Well-known member
Someone tried stealing my car 1 month ago, I saw him, around the same time, 3 am. By the time I ran out, dude was gone. Got in my car, drove around the block to find him, found a cop at the end of my short street told the cop and he didn't care one bit, litterly not a word and he drove off. Lol. 2 weeks ago my 3 neighbors all had their cars broken into, and one car was even attempted of being hot wired. Bunch of stuff stolen out the cars supposedly, even garbage bags of donation clothes (i guess the owner crossed that off their to do list).
Anyways I've contemplated the same scenario in my head, what I would do if I were to see the guy again.....
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/self-defence-what-s-acceptable-under-canadian-law-1.1229180 ....interesting read.
Anyways I've contemplated the same scenario in my head, what I would do if I were to see the guy again.....
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/self-defence-what-s-acceptable-under-canadian-law-1.1229180 ....interesting read.
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Exactly. What if a kid is passing by and see the door of a car open and goes and closes it, at that moment the owner comes out and shoots him in the head.
There is a reason there are laws against it in Canada, we are not in the US.
Now I don't think he should go to jail but people can not just kill other people over property - it is conflicting to say the least.
Now I am sure if he shots the guy 3 times, takes a few seconds break and then shots him 6 more times he would go to jail for sure... wait a minute!!
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i agree, the criminal, all criminals, should call law enforcement immediately if they suspect there lives are in any danger while commiting crime!!!! thats what 9II is for, i wonder if the thief, in this case, obtained a permit prior to commiting his attempted crime?? could have had an escort to and from the scene perhaps? Eliminating the inconvenience this innocent young taxpayer is now suffering.
That's going to be the shooters defence at trial. Who is going to say otherwise? Not the dead career criminal from Six Nations chop shop.
Pretty hard to claim self defense if you come out of the house already packing heat.
Yea likely will be the defence.. and who knows perhaps the details will come out that it was a valid defence of his person only basing on whats been released it does not seem so.
I'd like to think he was packing protection or deterrent. Yes it might be pretty hard to claim but can crown prove intent to kill?
Fair enough - you're right, minimal details to go on at this point.
MarcosSantiago
Well-known member
The article says "The would-be thief"... did the intruder actually stole anything? Did he break into the truck or not? etc.
Need more details.
Need more details.
ottytrain4:ottytrain4:yahhh, its hard!!! you gotta go and steal a car now and then to makes ends meet.:thebirdman:
Homeowner accused of murder acted in self-defence: lawyer
Hamilton Spectator
By Joel OpHardt
The lawyer for a Glanbrook homeowner accused of murder claims the man "felt his life was in danger" and was protecting himself and his property during a shooting incident that left another man dead.
Peter Khill, 26, has been charged in the shooting death of Jon Styres, 29, of Ohsweken.
Police believe Styres was trying to steal a pickup truck from Khill's driveway.
Khill is an award-winning student at both Waterford District High School and Mohawk College, according to his online profile, and was a rotating equipment expert with GE Power in Mississauga.
James Styres says his cousin will be dearly missed by his family and the whole community.
Styres described the victim as a family man, loved by everyone and with a good sense of humour.
"In this community, a lot of lives are touched when you are gone."
Defence lawyer Derek Martin said self-defence will be the cornerstone of their case.
"That's my understanding at this point. That (Khill) was protecting his property and protecting himself," Martin said Friday.
Martin said his client will plead not guilty to the second-degree murder charge.
Asked whether there was a struggle between the accused and the victim, Martin did not say.
"That is getting into the heart of what happened. Let's just say he believes he acted in self-defence. He was defending himself primarily," Martin said, adding his client was also defending his property.
Martin said his client, who has no previous criminal record and had served as a reservist with a Brantford artillery regiment of the Canadian Armed Forces, has advised he felt his life was in danger.
"That's my understanding at this point," the lawyer said. "I believe he felt his life was in danger, let's put it that way.
But Hamilton police offered a different take on the matter.
"We feel very comfortable that this is a murder," Det. Dave Oleniuk of the homicide unit told The Spectator Friday.
Oleniuk also said the only 911 call officers responded to "was for someone who has been shot."
Martin said he believes Khill's girlfriend called 911 after the Thursday 3 a.m. shooting at his client's Highway 56 home.
Khill has been remanded in custody and returns to court Tuesday via video link.
Scott Moodie said Khill was a helpful neighbour.
"He is just a super, nice guy. Young guy, hard worker. … That's all he does is work on his shop and works," he said.
James Styres, the cousin, says Jon was a cigarette machine operator at Grand River Enterprises. He didn't come from a wealthy family and grew up with challenges inherent to his community.
"Living on the reserve, you experience things that non-natives might not be able to understand.
"It's a hard way of living for aboriginal people these days."
He said his cousin's upbringing doesn't excuse him for being at Khill's residence at 3 a.m. — whatever the circumstances may have been — but he didn't deserve to die.
Jon's Facebook page features a litany of messages from friends and family expressing condolences.
One post shows a picture of two girls described as his daughters. It asks people to "share the memories you have of our dad. … We won't be lucky enough to know him ourselves so this will be all we have."
Meanwhile, a "FreePeterKhill" page has been set up on Facebook.
Dustin Woloschuk, who lives less than a kilometre from the $300,000 home Khill purchased last July, added his support.
Woloschuk, who owns Glanbrook landscaping and property maintenance business, said in the last few months there had been a spate of thefts from people's cars and garages in the area.
Coun. Brenda Johnson, who represents the area, is generally satisfied with the level of policing.
"I'm not hearing a whole lot of scuttlebutt about the length of response for an emergency.
"The police in my opinion … if the incident is severe enough, people know the police will be there. You can't swing a cat in Binbrook village without hitting an off-duty police officer. They all seem to want to live there."
But the Thursday homicide is the talk of the ward.
"I want to reiterate there are two families that have been just shattered overnight. I'm thinking about both families right now," Johnson said.
Jaime Stephenson, president of the Hamilton Criminal Lawyers Association, said to prove self-defence one must prove the response was proportional to the threat of personal harm or loss of property.
"The issue that will have to be determined is No. 1, was there a potential threat of harm to the person? Was the threat imminent and was the response proportional to the threat," Stephenson said.
The Styres homicide is Hamilton's third of 2016, all of which have occurred in less than two weeks.
With files from Joel OpHardt
jophardt@thespec.com
905-526-3408
spec link is HERE
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