Darksider - conviction registered

[nobbie48]

I'm not going back over this whole thread but there are links that explain the legality process. Basically a tire manufacturer has to apply to a particular division of the MOT quagmire and state that their tire model XYZ has the manufacturer's blessings for a particular use. If the manufacturer hasn't done this for the tire you want to use for an off-the-list application the tire is not legal. Don't hold your breath waiting for the car tire companies to push for certifications in a risky market.

The reality of getting nailed is not so black and white. Laying and pursuing charges is a mix of responsibility and profit. Both the police and crown have limits to their time and money resources. Plugging the courts with oddball charges that take a lot of time with possibly unfavourable outcomes isn't high on the priorities when there are more profitable fish to fry. Bikercop's opening post refers to a bike with numerous defects and a tire that was rubbing. Would the average cop even blink at the tires if the rider was an affable type on an otherwise stock Goldwing?

I am not sure of the differences between judges and justices of the peace. I assume a judge has powers to"JUDGE" if a law is actually being broken and if there are mitigating circumstances that would result in dropping of charges. A JP????

Neither will be experts on everything on the planet and this is where good lawyers earn their fees. They present evidence in a slant that effectively favours their clients. Every case has its own odds. Try your luck.

Insurance covers you for accidents. If, in the dark, you accidentally put your spouse's car tires on your car and had an accident it is an accident. If you deliberately used the wrong product, bragged about it to everyone you knew and posted on multiple forums about your actions and then had an "Accident". Is it an accident?

What bugs me the most about this thread is the narrow minded anti CT haters making ignorant comments without looking at the realities. I agree that if Rossi ran a CT at the track he would be prudent to check the details of his life insurance and make sure there's an ambulance parked at turn one.

I don't run a car tire on my Goldwing but would like the option of doing so if it offered me protection from the road situations I am likely to experience. The tire cost / change inconvenience is a non-issue in my recreational budget. I am more concerned about a flat or a blow out when I'm in the middle of nowhere. That is a more likely scenario than me high or low siding because I was scraping the pegs.

Would someone please direct me to a run-flat motorcycle tire that fits a Goldwing? I have several options with a car tire.

Regarding the naysayers who had a buddy that got scared when they tried one, get a life. Most of the naysayers I meet in life don't actually have a life so they enhance their pathetic existences by over-exaggerating everything their mommies can't kiss better.

In short, unless you can show documentation that says the tire is approved by the MOT it is illegal. It doesn't have to be labeled for what it can't be used for, although some do list a few specifics. While not specifically stated on the sidewall you can't use an inner tube for an airbag.

 

[PrivatePilot]

In short, unless you can show documentation that says the tire is approved by the MOT it is illegal. It doesn't have to be labeled for what it can't be used for, although some do list a few specifics. While not specifically stated on the sidewall you can't use an inner tube for an airbag.

The law states (and yes, clearly) that a tire that is placarded on the sidewalk AGAINST certain uses cannot be used legally on anything else.

So, ST Tires are clearly stamped "for trailer use only" therefore can not be used on any vehicle.

Offroad vehicle tires (ATV, lawn tractor, wheelbarrow etc) are clearly labeled "not for highway/road use" or "low speed use only" therefore can not be used for such.

Farm use tires are also clearly indicated on the sidewalls stating "off road use only" or "low speed use only" despite commonly having weight capacities that would far exceed any automotive requirements. Go look at the tires on a haywagon for example - if I was at the farm right now I'd snap some photos, but trust me, they are placarded clearly against high speed/highway use.

However, vehicle tires do not carry such restrictions so they can be mixed within non-placarded uses without problem so long as they are of adequate weight carrying capacity. Hell, some guys in the pickup truck crowd are running 11R22.5 10 lug semi tires on half ton trucks, and yes, so long as they are properly attached they're perfectly legal, retarded looking or not. (IMHO )

So, it comes full circle to the vagaries of the law coupled with car tires not being specifically placarded "passenger vehicle use only", or "not for xxx vehicle use".

I have (unfortunately) ridden a bike with a car tire mounted on the rear. I didn't run that particular shop and I had to take a customer's bike on a test ride for some reason or other. I made it 1/3 of the way around the route and cut the ride short. If there was any change in the road angle the bike darted and danced within the lane almost uncontrollably.

I wasn't going to reply to this, but with all due respect, I call BS.

While reading about darkside over the last few weeks I also watched a lot of videos in addition to quietly reading the experiences of many who run darkside. Your story simply does NOT match the experience of those who run darkside (even those who tried it and didn't like it, or those who found it "different" but adjusted), nor is it corroborated in any videos.

Let's take this video for example, one I watched when I was looking for contact patch comparisons. Your example of how the bike should handle is simply not reality, and if it really running darkside was the near uncontrollable nightmare you seem to suggest I'd find it a stretch to believe that so many people would extoll it's virtues.

[video=youtube;gZKhoFbL7Fo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo[/video]

And here's a GL1800 Goldwing tracking on a CT.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/v/DU2bkeGwRGM&feature=player_embedded&hl=en&[/video]

He doesn't seem to be having any trouble in triple digits and leaning over far enough to wear away his trim.

And here's a worn out tire that was darkside for it's entire life on a GL1500 @ 40,000K. None of those "worn out sidewalls" or other freakish wear patterns that many like to suggest would be expected.

 

[LPakkala]

I guess that's the beauty of having in person experience and not relying on "reading about" something. I don't need you to believe me, you weren't there to experience it any more than you were present to experience all the positive experiences that have been cited. Despite me posting with my actual name attached to my comments, you have no real reason to believe me over any other information source available to you. I'm glad you are doing lots of research about your decision(s). I offered my comments to provide you with some local, first hand experience from an accessible source you can verify.

 

[nakkers]

The law states (and yes, clearly) that a tire that is placarded on the sidewalk AGAINST certain uses cannot be used legally on anything else.

So, ST Tires are clearly stamped "for trailer use only" therefore can not be used on any vehicle.

Offroad vehicle tires (ATV, lawn tractor, wheelbarrow etc) are clearly labeled "not for highway/road use" or "low speed use only" therefore can not be used for such.

Farm use tires are also clearly indicated on the sidewalls stating "off road use only" or "low speed use only" despite commonly having weight capacities that would far exceed any automotive requirements. Go look at the tires on a haywagon for example - if I was at the farm right now I'd snap some photos, but trust me, they are placarded clearly against high speed/highway use.

However, vehicle tires do not carry such restrictions so they can be mixed within non-placarded uses without problem so long as they are of adequate weight carrying capacity. Hell, some guys in the pickup truck crowd are running 11R22.5 10 lug semi tires on half ton trucks, and yes, so long as they are properly attached they're perfectly legal, retarded looking or not. (IMHO )

So, it comes full circle to the vagaries of the law coupled with car tires not being specifically placarded "passenger vehicle use only", or "not for xxx vehicle use".



I wasn't going to reply to this, but with all due respect, I call BS.

While reading about darkside over the last few weeks I also watched a lot of videos in addition to quietly reading the experiences of many who run darkside. Your story simply does NOT match the experience of those who run darkside (even those who tried it and didn't like it, or those who found it "different" but adjusted), nor is it corroborated in any videos.

Let's take this video for example, one I watched when I was looking for contact patch comparisons. Your example of how the bike should handle is simply not reality, and if it really running darkside was the near uncontrollable nightmare you seem to suggest I'd find it a stretch to believe that so many people would extoll it's virtues.

[video=youtube;gZKhoFbL7Fo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo[/video]

And here's a GL1800 Goldwing tracking on a CT.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/v/DU2bkeGwRGM&feature=player_embedded&hl=en&[/video]

He doesn't seem to be having any trouble in triple digits and leaning over far enough to wear away his trim.

And here's a worn out tire that was darkside for it's entire life on a GL1500 @ 40,000K. None of those "worn out sidewalls" or other freakish wear patterns that many like to suggest would be expected.

This reminds me of the time when tobacco companies would have testimonials of people that lived to be 101 years old and lived a great life.

Granted, I can admit to driving while txting and engaging in other stupid activities knowing full well it isn't the wisest decision.

I don't think you'll find motorcycle manufactures or tire manufactures encouraging the use of car tires on bikes.

Is it a conspiracy to get riders to spend more on tires and replacements?

Maybe.

I just think if a motorcycle leans over to perform a task such as turning at speed, the equipment to allow that to happen should have the contours to do it safely. "Round".

A lot is asked of tires. Traction, steering, accelerating, stopping.

Why ask a tire to do more than it was originally designed to do?

Just because it can, doesn't mean it should.

 

[Wingboy]

Doesn't take much skill to grind hard harts on a wing.Although the 1800 is much more capable than earlier models.Riding a wing fast thru twisty stuff without grinding parts is very much a skill tho.That's the reason i think Yellowolf is a twat.All his videos are a display of wasted Honda parts on a road he has ridden thousands of times.

 

[fastar1]

I wasn't going to reply to this, but with all due respect, I call BS.

While reading about darkside over the last few weeks I also watched a lot of videos in addition to quietly reading the experiences of many who run darkside. Your story simply does NOT match the experience of those who run darkside (even those who tried it and didn't like it, or those who found it "different" but adjusted), nor is it corroborated in any videos.

Let's take this video for example, one I watched when I was looking for contact patch comparisons. Your example of how the bike should handle is simply not reality, and if it really running darkside was the near uncontrollable nightmare you seem to suggest I'd find it a stretch to believe that so many people would extoll it's virtues.

[video=youtube;gZKhoFbL7Fo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZKhoFbL7Fo[/video]

And here's a GL1800 Goldwing tracking on a CT.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/v/DU2bkeGwRGM&feature=player_embedded&hl=en&[/video]

He doesn't seem to be having any trouble in triple digits and leaning over far enough to wear away his trim.

And here's a worn out tire that was darkside for it's entire life on a GL1500 @ 40,000K. None of those "worn out sidewalls" or other freakish wear patterns that many like to suggest would be expected.

Your videos don't do anything to contradict the behaviour LPakkala claimed to experience. He said the car tire squirmed on cambered or changing camber surfaces when going straight. Neither video shows such a circumstance.

Interesting however that the first video showed the guy going wide out of a corner into the oncoming lane!

The 2nd video link is broken BTW. Here's the correct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU2bkeGwRGM

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, all that first video showed was a car tire right up on its edge. They were never built to be used like that. But whatever floats your boat. Just don't crash and raise everyone's insurance rates like you're always warning the young SS guys about. How exactly is this better, other than supposed cash savings?

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk

 

[fastar1]

Yeah, all that first video showed was a car tire right up on its edge. They were never built to be used like that. But whatever floats your boat. Just don't crash and raise everyone's insurance rates like you're always warning the young SS guys about. How exactly is this better, other than supposed cash savings?

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk

Well, apart from the savings it's also better in that it affirms the rider is a rebel, who thinks for himself unlike everyone else who's bound by popular opinion. Hence the badazz name 'darksider'.

 

[nobbie48]

. How exactly is this better, other than supposed cash savings?

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk

Does anyone make a run-flat motorcycle tire?????? I'll pay double the M/C tire price.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Your videos don't do anything to contradict the behaviour LPakkala claimed to experience

Lets revisit the piece of the quote I took issue with.

If there was any change in the road angle the bike darted and danced within the lane almost uncontrollably.

This is so very clearly an abnormal experience..referencing just the one video I posted that is not evident, and there's plenty of evidence out there to confirm that aside from (before anyone mentions it), just 1 video.

Perhaps the tire was low on pressure, perhaps it was not aligned properly, perhaps it was not mounted on the rim properly, hell..perhaps the bearings were shot...but clearly something was wrong if the bike was borderline "uncontrollable" as he states. Or perhaps it was someone who clearly is vehemently against darkside just stretching the truth to fit an argument.

FWIW based on the unclear legalities at this point I'm going to opt for a MC tire when the time comes this summer. If and when the picture becomes clearer down the road I will maintain an open mind.

 

[nobbie48]

FWIW based on the unclear legalities at this point I'm going to opt for a MC tire when the time comes this summer. If and when the picture becomes clearer down the road I will maintain an open mind.

A breath of fresh air. I salute you.

 

[PrivatePilot]

A breath of fresh air. I salute you.

Hey...use all 5 fingers.

 

[GreyGhost]

Maybe LPakkala was dealing with specific problems with the bike/tire combination he rode. We know that changing tires can dramatically change how a bike handles (even when sticking to the same size motorcycle tires) and he could have had the further complication of improper tire pressure. I don't know and I would suspect very few people in the general motorcycle community have any idea what tire pressure car tires are supposed to be run at on a bike, the wrong pressure could also cause handling to go to hell.

Neither of these problems are insurmountable, but in the context of a test ride, I would abort too and hand the abortion back to the owner to figure out how to make their bike work again.

 

[crankcall]

Lpakkala is a licensed Tech reporting on his actual experience on a particular bike he test rode. First time on it and found it unpleasant.

PrivatePilot watched a video . Several maybe.

Not that my opinion matters at all (but here it is) I'm going to side with the guy that has actually had his butt on a drivers seat.

Could I legally put a run flat home depot wheelbarrow tire on my Ebike? I think the orange color would add 2hp (or 5amps) and just look badass in the drivethru lane.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Lpakkala is a licensed Tech reporting on his actual experience on a particular bike he test rode. First time on it and found it unpleasant.

No, he didn't say it was "unpleasant", he said it (quoting him again) "darted and danced within the lane almost uncontrollably" which screams either a dramatic embellishment not based on reality, or an experience based on some sort of mechanical problem.. Go investigate even the tiniest bit and you'll find that darkside bikes do not "dart around almost uncontrollably".

If he said that a Grom could beat a Hayabusa, would you blindly believe him too?

Critical thinking skills, handy in this day and age. If that's the experience he actually had, then so be it, but one MUST assume that there was some underlying problem for it..and just blaming the CT was a convenient scapegoat. Had it done the same thing with a MC tire one would be checking out the bike mechanically to find out WTF was wrong with it, not automatically blaming the MC tire.

 

[crankcall]

Why do you always have to go to an extreme example to support your end of a debate. Grom Vs. Hyabusa? really ? whats next your dad can beat up my dad?
Bernie at least pulls up an obscure example with a humorous anecdote, please ask your self, what would Inreb do?

 

[LPakkala]

For the sake of disclosure, I did not ride that exact bike previous to the customer installing a car tire and then immediately ride it again, so I can not honestly say that the car tire was guaranteed to be the only problem. However, I checked all the accessible components before and after the ride (bearings, tire pressures - working from a combination of OEM and customer suggestions, brakes, steering head, forks, lights, etc) as normal for test riding an unknown bike. There are a few bikes I will test ride without checking over and all those items and those owners are in my speed dial. Everyone else's get's the check. I had no experience (positive or negative) previous to the test ride, as to the handling characteristics of that model bike with a car tire, but I had (and have since) rode those bikes plenty of times - it was a Vulcan 1500. The customer's concern that day had nothing to do with the handling (it was a front brake noise) and when I brought it up with him he said certain roads were worse than others, but it does do that.

Strawman argument aside, my opinion stands that: you should do as much research as possible. Preferably without bias, but that can be tough (impossible). I think you are honestly doing that, and you will be better off, no matter which way you decide to go in the future.

 

[crankcall]

Don't be posting up practical and concise answers. That's not how this place works.

Segway Donald Trump into your answer, or at least blame the provincial liberals. I hope that Vulcan at least had loud pipes so while you were bouncing all over the road , people knew to get out of your way.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

No, he didn't say it was "unpleasant", he said it (quoting him again) "darted and danced within the lane almost uncontrollably" which screams either a dramatic embellishment not based on reality, or an experience based on some sort of mechanical problem.. Go investigate even the tiniest bit and you'll find that darkside bikes do not "dart around almost uncontrollably".

If he said that a Grom could beat a Hayabusa, would you blindly believe him too?

Critical thinking skills, handy in this day and age. If that's the experience he actually had, then so be it, but one MUST assume that there was some underlying problem for it..and just blaming the CT was a convenient scapegoat. Had it done the same thing with a MC tire one would be checking out the bike mechanically to find out WTF was wrong with it, not automatically blaming the MC tire.

Yup, a mechanical issue. It had a car tire on the rear.

 

[fastar1]

Lets revisit the piece of the quote I took issue with.



This is so very clearly an abnormal experience..referencing just the one video I posted that is not evident, and there's plenty of evidence out there to confirm that aside from (before anyone mentions it), just 1 video.

Perhaps the tire was low on pressure, perhaps it was not aligned properly, perhaps it was not mounted on the rim properly, hell..perhaps the bearings were shot...but clearly something was wrong if the bike was borderline "uncontrollable" as he states. Or perhaps it was someone who clearly is vehemently against darkside just stretching the truth to fit an argument.

FWIW based on the unclear legalities at this point I'm going to opt for a MC tire when the time comes this summer. If and when the picture becomes clearer down the road I will maintain an open mind.

He said the darting and dancing was nearly uncontrollable, not the bike as a whole. It's more a complaint about his comfort with the bike based on its behaviour than any immediate threat to his safety. I'm sure he would have ditched the bike in a parking lot if that were the case. And as you said, the videos weren't evidence against that (which was my point).

FWIW I don't think anyone should care if you decide to go with a car tire or not. Whatever the added risk is, it's tiny, and mostly a threat to yourself. As long as you make an informed decision (which others may try and contribute to), then the decision is yours to make and live with.