Can I get the bike insured for next summer now before I am convicted? Or would insurance companies see these charges already? Or is it fraudulent for me to withhold that information.
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Careless Driving/ No insurance ticket- HELP!
- Thread starter s1000rrr
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I think im looking at around 4-5k in fines including lawyer fees, which is still less than what I would have paid if I was insured lol... But yeah that's besides the point.
Well you don't insure the bike "for next summer" bike insurance is year round, the premiums you pay are pro rated, If your paying on a monthly plan, then you pay equal amounts" monthly but the premiums are weighted heavily during the riding season. So yes you can purchase insurance now. The insurer can not see these charges until a conviction is registered.
Once you are convicted, under the Insurance Act you ARE required to disclose any convictions to your insurer. Now many don't, and never suffer any consequences. However, fail to declare a MAJOR conviction of no insurance, in the event of a claim, the insurer is well within their rights to deny that claim. So let's say you don't disclose and next summer you crash the bike, (and there are no injuries, but the bike is written off, which would be an at fault claim), you would be best advised not to even make a claim, but rather just eat the loss of the bike. Now another scenario, you are injured, can't work for a year, the insurer may tell you to go pound salt and deny ANY medical benefits as well as Income Replacement Benefits. Worst case scenario, (again all these are with it being an "at fault collision"), you crash and someone else is hurt, (now your insurer denies the claim, you get nothing for your bike, or your injuries, the other insurance company pays out the claim for their client then they come knocking on your door looking for, MINIMUM tens of thousands, to potentially MILLIONS for damages as well as medical expenses). FYI they don't take "monthly installment plans"..lol They sue you, get a judgement, and "own" everything you currently have as well as portion of every penny you earn until they are paid in full.
Also last worst case scenario, upon conviction you don't advise your insurer of the MAJOR conviction, (in the eyes of an insurer a no insurance is equal to impaired etc), but the insurer runs your driver's abstract, and discovers the conviction, you WILL get a notice that your insurance has been canceled and then you ARE into buying facility insurance which will be approx 300 - 500% your current premiums, For a 1000RR you would be likely looking at $15,000+ per year for 5 - 6 years as you will now have a MAJOR conviction as well as cancellation for insurance fraud, These will show up for ANY insurer you contact, and the second one will affect, Bike, auto, home/tenant, life etc insurance.
Not trying to "scare" you asked a very valid question and I am just providing the relevant info. Now the chances are, if you don't disclose, and make NO changes, (don't get another vehicle, change vehicles, switch insurers, move etc), you are more than likely to "escape" detection, but how many of us can say for certainty, that our current car can last us 3+ years, or that we won't have something cause a change in our lives, (new baby, move, etc, all of which can cause an insurer to run our extract) in 3+ years?
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Not sure how the paralegal was able to state that you didn't receive, full disclosure, unless it was indicated in the officer's notes that there is indeed video evidence then that paralegal is "just guessing" but you can still submit another request for disclosure, (if indeed there is something in the notes that indicates there is further evidence). The crown is required to turn over ALL evidence it intends to use at trial, (could be they have reviewed the video and seen that it doesn't show anything of value, and they won't be relying upon it at trial). However, if you feel it does indeed show something that may aid in your defense, then a lawyer can ask the court to order the crown to turn it over to them, (hence why he said only a lawyer can do that), but in reality anyone can "petition' the court by submitting a motion. But that can only be done at your next court appearance, and will result in an adjournment. Remember, for the purposes of insurance etc, the clock doesn't start ticking until you are convicted, meaning on one hand further delays means longer period before you start paying REALLY high premiums, but on the other hand also means longer period, before those convictions come off your record. Say you get convicted in Feb 2017, and your insurance begins in Jan 2017, you pay any conviction surcharges, (higher premiums), until your renewal in Jan 2021 minimum, (depending upon the company it could be as long as 6 years).
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Wise move, although we may all "want" to know what you did, best not to disclose the details here, save that for your representation and court.
bigpoppa
Well-known member
If your hell bent on riding that s1000RR for one more year, i would get the insurance on it NOW before your convicted or it registers
Also like he said, your required to disclose any convictions like that (But technically your not convicted yet so you might be able to get away with it)
ALTHOUGH i will say, most insurers and brokers usually ask for your drivers license number and run it before underwriting your policy (im assuming that too wont appear on your record till your convicted)
Keep in mind, the scenarios described above arent likely to happen(no really)
If your lucky and get into an accident, the only thing that will be damaged is the bike(and in your case you wont make a claim, and the only thing your short is a little motorcycle)
If your unlucky the accident is more serious, you might be seriously hurt and might want to make a claim
But I think its safe to say you wont be hurting anyone else if your riding a little motorcycle on the road, mostly just yourself (and therefore no one else is likely to file a claim against you)
Keep in mind, neither of us are lawyers so this is all just speculation, to confirm or to check ask a real traffic lawyer
If i were you, id just sell that S1000RR asap, get a little 250-300 and get that insured. You'll get a good rate for a year, then when the conviction registers and its renewal time, you'll be in trouble, and the rate will go way up, but atleast on a little 250 or 300 you wont be hurting by THAT much
Also like he said, your required to disclose any convictions like that (But technically your not convicted yet so you might be able to get away with it)
ALTHOUGH i will say, most insurers and brokers usually ask for your drivers license number and run it before underwriting your policy (im assuming that too wont appear on your record till your convicted)
Keep in mind, the scenarios described above arent likely to happen(no really)
If your lucky and get into an accident, the only thing that will be damaged is the bike(and in your case you wont make a claim, and the only thing your short is a little motorcycle)
If your unlucky the accident is more serious, you might be seriously hurt and might want to make a claim
But I think its safe to say you wont be hurting anyone else if your riding a little motorcycle on the road, mostly just yourself (and therefore no one else is likely to file a claim against you)
Keep in mind, neither of us are lawyers so this is all just speculation, to confirm or to check ask a real traffic lawyer
If i were you, id just sell that S1000RR asap, get a little 250-300 and get that insured. You'll get a good rate for a year, then when the conviction registers and its renewal time, you'll be in trouble, and the rate will go way up, but atleast on a little 250 or 300 you wont be hurting by THAT much
Again, if he has no prior insurance related convictions, and a decent record (ie. not pages long), a good paralegal should be able to have the fine reduced significantly, even if the "minimum" is 5K.
I'm just trying to picture how a 25 year old on a supersport with no insurance pulled over for careless driving gets any reduction from a JP or judge or whatever. What possible reason could they have for reducing this?
Reasonable people, including JP's, understand people make mistakes... Tough concept?
I agree, although the "minimum" fine is $5K, I have been in court and seen a number of registered convictions with the fines ranging as low as $1500 but most were actually in the $2500 - $4000 range. Many JP's especially if the OP shows up with a current VALID insurance slip, that showed he got insured "shortly after being charged", as in the next day, (which unfortunately the OP didn't do), will reduce the fines below the "minimum".
Bigpoppa.... As long as the OP binds a policy BEFORE he is convicted he is NOt required to disclose, the charges to a potential insurer. When the insurer runs his driver's licence the charges again will NOT show, they are only added to the driver's abstract, (which is what the insurer is seeing, they can't see the infor on Police computers which would indicate the OP has been charged), therefore the rate would be based, upon a clean abstract.
As I originally said in my first post here, could likely see it halved with good representation and no previous insurance related charges/convictions... I think you'd agree, prior record has more to do with that decision than getting insurance the next day.
mistersouthpaw
Well-known member
May be an ongoing Investigation reviewing video footage looking for more charges or evidence to support the charges
Hell even mediocre representation...lol I have seen some without representation, just show up well dressed, respectful, advise the court they got insurance the next day, or they "were just going around the corner to test the car" before putting it back on the road, and walk out with a fine of $3000. Many times the JP will ask if they now have VALID insurance, (even seen a couple of JP's ask to see the pink slip). Certainly prior record, (especially if for no insurance), plays a big part in sentencing. Even the most lenient JP will have at it then..
It is pretty simple to get a plate without valid insurance, many times the Service Ontario clerks don't bother to check, or he could have had a previous policy in effect, when he got the plates, some have even been known to put a policy in place, get the plates then call to cancel the policy, many many possibilities, none of which the OP would be wise to post on an open forum.
Highly unlikely, if the cop thought there were evidence of further charges on any tape which may or may not exist, he would have reviewed it before he called the OP to come in, (he would lay all the charges at once, after all, there is no rush to have the OP come in, the officer had up to 6 months to lay the charges).
Again, no one even knows if there is video evidence, it was just something mentioned by a paralegal.
Again, no one even knows if there is video evidence, it was just something mentioned by a paralegal.
hondo79
Well-known member
Not to mention, tempt the sh!+ out of you. I would sell it, it's just a bike and when your free and clear of the consequences of this incident you can get another and ride with out having to worry about anything except dodging inattentive drivers.
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TorontoBoy
Well-known member
Not to belittle the winter reaming we are giving him, OP, does the disclosure provide evidence sufficient to convict you of careless driving? This will be critical to understand, from a lawyer's perspective. Did the cop provide adequate documentation for your transgression. The cop was in a rush...
I thought an IVP database check was SOP. In the past I ran into issues getting a renewal sticker on my Mustang because the car was in storage, "withdrawn from use" in terms of insurance and I hadn't called the insurance company far enough ahead to tell them I wanted to put the car back on the road in the spring to update the database in time. The point is that the SO folks have access to this data; seems odd that they'd skip that crucial step.
If the DA or JP probes these angles and it hypothetically turns out one of them was how the OP obtained the stickered plates, how much more trouble is he in? That is, is there fines for fraudulently obtaining or renewing plates over and above driving a vehicle without insurance?
Would the DA or JP look further into the above?
The disclosure provides sufficient evidence to convict me of both offenses. However, I may have some point that may help my case. For ex, when the officer stopped me, he did not check my ownership; so how can he prove that the bike I was on that day was the same bike that is registered under me? Also, why did he take my license without suspending it or impounding the bike? And theres a few other points as well..
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