Can advanced riders give some hidden tips/tricks to newbies? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Can advanced riders give some hidden tips/tricks to newbies?

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Phalanx

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I'm looking to learn some tips and tricks from advanced riders. Things like;
-speed shifting (without clutch)
-rev matching
etc.

Some questions I have..

1. In the course you are told to always be in 1st gear at a stop. But, when I'm driving I always see guys on bikes stretching or with both hands off the handlebars, how is this possible if the course instructors say to remain in 1st gear which would require 1 hand to have the clutch pulled in...? I am assuming they go to neutral? But, when I was taking the course the bikes we were on, when you would start them it wouldn't be possible to go back into neutral, it would go 1-2-3-4-5. But when the bike was off, then it would be 1-neautral-2-3-4-5... so how do you get the bike into neutral when it's running?

2. Also, in the course we were taught to always shift down to 1st gear at a stop, but to me this is pointless in a way, can't we remain in 2nd/3rd/4th at a stop so that when we take off we don't have to upshift 3 or 4 times again? Lazy yes, but kind of a little trick if possible?

3. Do you guys always go to 1st gear at stops or what do you advanced riders do?

4. Will speedshifting without using the clutch damage the bike or is this a myth?

5. Is speedshifting the only way to shift gears without using the clutch or are there other methods?

6. Do you guys always use both your back and front brakes? Or front only mostly? Can you give details on when to use both, when to use front only, or back only?

I know in a manual car, you can switch gears without using the foot clutch by rev matching, but it's very hard and an advanced technique.. so just looking to learn some tricks / getting around tips.


Thanks.
 
Dude, you can do whatever you like when you ride your own bike. Your ride, your call.
the reason most of the training bikes have a hard time finding neutral whilst running is that they are beat to ratshit, if I had to guess I would say cbr125?
As far as being in first while stopped in traffic, it gives you the best chance of getting out of the way of whatever idiot/texter/talker/moron is gong to rear end you at that light. You may want to also consider leaving a full bike length or two between you and the car in front of you for a possible escape route if needed.
.....always watch your six when stopped in traffic.

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1.
I dont know what course you did but most bikes are geared 1-N-2-3-4-5 and yes they suggest it and my moto school was geared like that too. And yes its the safer thing to do so youre always ready (read, if a rear ender comes and you see him coming, that half second it takes you to shift to go could save your *** which also ties in to ...

2.
With smaller bikes, starting from 2nd isn't a problem, but as mentioned in the situation above, 1st gear = fast acceleration = faster saving your ***. Besides once you get to higher CC bikes...a lot of your street riding will happen in lower gears (see 600cc supersports able to get to 120kph in 1st gear)

3.
As a habit, i TRY to stay in first gear...but when its bumper to bumper traffic that goes "ride for 5 meters, stop for 2 minutes" i tend to go in neutral, right foot on rear brake, both hands on handle bars. Problem with that scenario and positioning is , every 2 minutes, you use front brake, put right foot down to shift into first.

4-5 ill pass on those

6- I tend to use both. Sometimes engine brake + front when it's coasting/mild braking. Mostly rear brake when im at really slow speeds. When im at higher speeds though, I definitely use both.

And now, well... im not an advanced guy at all. But i think that's pretty much "standard" and might vary depending on your style..and obviously your bike
 
1. Just because you "should" always stay in 1st at a stop, doesn't mean everyone does it all the time. (I certainly don't.) The riding position of a lot of supersport bikes (not designed to be comfortable when stuck in traffic) does not help in this regard ... sometimes, being at a standstill is your opportunity to stretch your back and relax your arm muscles. There is an element of situational awareness here. New riders are taught something a certain way that keeps them safe until they learn to think for themselves and find other options. Personally, I'll come to a stop at a traffic signal in 1st gear while checking the mirrors. Once the vehicle behind has come to a stop, anything coming from behind will have to get through them first in order to get to me. Not impossible, but it's not like I'd be likely to see it even if it did happen, so what good is it to remain in 1st any more ... If you go by the statistics, getting hit from behind is one of the smaller risks to a motorcyclist. Not a zero risk ... but a smaller risk than many other things.

As for actually getting to neutral ... Some bikes are easier to find neutral with than others. That's just the way it is. I have one in which if you want to stop in neutral, you had better find it before you come to a stop, because once stopped, it ain't happening.

2. Starting off in anything other than 1st is generally not going to be a good thing to do. #1, the clutch engagement will be more sensitive so you are more likely to stall it. #2, the extra slipping is bad for the wear parts inside the clutch (read: expensive). #3, you will not be able to accelerate as quickly away from the stop.

3. Yes (1st) ... or neutral, depending on that mental risk assessment and the foreseen amount of time that I will be spending at a stop.

4. Done correctly, upshifting without the clutch will not do significant damage. Done incorrectly, you CAN do a lot of damage in a big hurry that will be very expensive to repair. On top of that, I partially pull in the clutch at every gear change and use that to smooth out the gear change. Take it from this 25+ year 400,000+ km sport rider ... Use the clutch on every gear change unless your bike has what I'm going to describe next in answer to your next question ...

5. Some bikes have, and others can have it installed as an aftermarket accessory, a "quick-shifter". It is a gadget that senses you applying pressure on the gearshift lever in the upshift direction, and momentarily cuts off the ignition to the engine. This allows upshifts to be done without backing out of the throttle. Very common on drag-race bikes. Somewhat common on road-race bikes. It's becoming more common on new sport bikes. BUT ...

My experience with quick-shifters is that they are designed to work at maximum acceleration and high revs. They do not work well for part-throttle upshifts at moderate revs typical of everyday puttering around, and will cause lurching, rough shifts. Bottom line ... use the clutch, and forget about the quick-shifters unless you are going to the drag strip.

6. Front only (sport bike), unless (1) carrying a passenger (which causes rear-biased weight distribution), (2) riding on surfaces with questionable traction (sand, grass, perhaps wet pavement). If you have a bike with rear-biased weight distribution (cruiser, touring bikes) then you will need to use both.
 
1. Yes, they are in neutral and that is why they are able to release the clutch --- usually to stretch. I stay in 1st gear 90% of the time.

2. From a stop, the optimal gear to use is the first gear. Each gear has a limited range of power delivery at various speeds and resistance (weight, drag, hills, etc.).

3. I always use first gear from a stop.

4. I don't know if speedshifting will damage the bike but I'd like to see this on Mythbusters.

5. I don't know of any other methods to shift gears properly besides using the clutch lever.

6. I use both front and rear. I only use rear exclusively on low speed maneuvers to stabilize the bike.
 
1. I'm in 1st most of the time at a stop. Will go to N if there are cars stopped behind me and it's a long wait for the green.
2. 1st from a stop.
3. see #2
4. Power shifting won't do any damage if done properly. I sometimes shift without the clutch going up and down. Takes practice and rev matching. Good to know how to do. Was handy when my clutch cable snapped.
5. Yes. Only 3 things done when shifting. Clutch, throttle and shifting. Power shifting just takes away 1 element...clutch. You could try taking out the throttle element too, but your tranny probably won't last long.
6. Use both for most effective stopping. Activate the front a fraction before the back. Mid turn, I might use the rear to scrub a bit of speed.
 
A few extra points:

-Some Kawasakis have a positive neutral finder, which means if you are stopped, you will ONLY shift into either 1st or neutral

-I know on some bikes, 1st may feel a little pointless. I know I've had a few where for whatever reason I stopped in 2nd instead of 1st, and the bike barely even notices. However, on other bikes that were geared really tall, you NEEDED first. The bike might do 270+ but makes absolutely no power whatsoever at low rpm, and gently slipping the clutch without gas will still just stop the motor dead.

-"Speedshifting" can be rough on the drivetrain as it will subject everything attached to the back wheel to a nice jolt. If you can do it smoothly, it doesn't really hurt the bike.

-I use both brakes. If other bikers are watching I will use mostly rear when downshifting so it looks like I am rev matching perfectly
 
Learn to do everything correctly and when your skill level increases worry about the advanced technical stuff. Go to youtube and watch twist of the wrist II. Never stop reading and learning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVWLIfChUwg
 
The best advanced advice I have received is learn to be smooth in every move you make. Shifting, breaking , leaning, changing lanes, everything . Your bike will thank you and makes for much better riding
 
All points are pretty much covered so I'll just say something about clutchless shifting that hasn't been covered. You can clutchless down-shift by rev matching but it's a bit harder to get right than clutchless up-shifting. Basically, you do the complete opposite of clutchless up-shifting... let off throttle to decelerate, pre-load the gear selector by gently stepping on it, blip the throttle and you should feel your left foot positively engage the shift lever. I don't recommend doing this however. When you get it wrong it's very jerky which could potentially cause an accident and put mechanical strain on the bike.
 
I have to ask, why clutchless shift when riding on the street. I have been riding 30 years and pulling the clutch to shift is not that much work. I am not on the track so to save that 1/100th of a second it seems pointless especially if you do it wrong and mess up a very expensive gearbox.
 
taximan62 said:
I have to ask, why clutchless shift when riding on the street. I have been riding 30 years and pulling the clutch to shift is not that much work. I am not on the track so to save that 1/100th of a second it seems pointless especially if you do it wrong and mess up a very expensive gearbox.
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If you have a heavy clutch it's a godsend. I don't but I do it at least 50% of the time anyway. It's easier, fun and I see no reason not to. It won't damage a thing unless you get it really wrong. Avoid doing it from 1st to 2nd, keep the revs up at least in the mid range and you should have no problems.
 
To answer your questions:


1. Those that do that are sitting in neutral. I was taught the same as you (through RTI) and typically sit in first, clutch in, however I will put it in neutral the odd time if I do need to stretch or adjust something (mirror, etc). As for shifting into neutral while the bike is running, I found that the course CBR125Rs couldn't do this, however I never really had an issue on my new CBR250RA, or on my new CBR650F. If my freeplay got too large I couldn't go 1st -> N, but found I could go 1 -> 2, then kick it down into N by clutching and weighting the shift lever slightly and/or rocking the bike a little.


2. I never did this outside of the course, and typically come up to a stop in 2nd, then clutch in and drop it down into first as I am actually rolling to a stop. I find I only really use 1st for setting off, so even if the light changes, I'll want to be in at least 2nd gear 99% of the time. If you are actually stopped though be in 1st, otherwise you're going to have a bad time when the light changes and you want to get moving again.


3. See answer 1.


4. You can clutchless upshift, but NEVER clutchless downshift. I don't always upshift like this, but I do find the bike seems 'happier' clutchless shifting if I am riding more aggressively. When I do it, I just put some upwards pressure on the shift lever, and let off the throttle. Sometimes it will just slip into gear itself, other times I will either push it a little harder or just touch the clutch momentarily. The whole idea is either by clutch or by cutting throttle you are removing load from the transmission, which allows things to shift. Again, this doesn't work for downshifts, so don't do that unless you want to either A. ruin your transmission and/or B. lock up the rear wheel and end up sideways.


5. Not sure what you mean. See 4. for clutchless shifting. The only 'other' way I know is if you have a quickshifter kit on your bike which essentially does the throttle cutting for you.


6. I only use front most of the time at speed, and rear at parking lot speeds or if I need as much stopping power as possible. I am trying to use the rear a bit more than I used to, but that's mainly to bed the back pads in better/more.




Oh and you're wrong about shifting with a car -- Bikes use sequential gearboxes where most cars do not. Read up on how transmissions work, but you always need to use the clutch on a car unless you really want to damage things over time.
 
Yes you can clutchless DOWN shift. See my post above. I wouldn't recommend it until you are very comfortable with regular shifting though.
 
taximan62 said:
I have to ask, why clutchless shift when riding on the street. I have been riding 30 years and pulling the clutch to shift is not that much work. I am not on the track so to save that 1/100th of a second it seems pointless especially if you do it wrong and mess up a very expensive gearbox.
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It's not really about whether or not its not much work. It's just a neat trick.. it's the same as using keyboard shortcuts on your computer like alt + tab to go between windows instead of minimizing then going to another window..

I'm not gonna do any of these things until I'm a better cyclist but just wanted to be in the know as I was curious.
 
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Like others have stated, clutchless shifting (up or down) without a quickshift isn't really done all that often. Maybe every other month, I'll find a quiet stretch of my ride where I'll revisit both clutchless shifting on my bike without a quickshift--just in case I run into an issue with my clutch cable not working properly. Hopefully that never happens, but if it does, I'll be able to get home without the clutch working normally.\

More of a "better to know how to and not need to use it vs need it but don't know how to" type of deal.
 
Never stop learning... I recently did an advanced riding course and its changed the way I ride. I can *feel* the difference and my riding buddies have commented about how "night and day" my riding has become.
 
**look where u want to go** and keep your eyes up.

Other than that. Be seen and create escape route The rest will come in time.
 
kiwi said:
Never stop learning... I recently did an advanced riding course and its changed the way I ride. I can *feel* the difference and my riding buddies have commented about how "night and day" my riding has become.
Click to expand...

Which course did you take?
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