Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[nakkers]

I've learned a lot from this thread. I know, surprise!


I think the next few years will really move EV to become very popular for many folks.

My initial ignorance was EVs are glorified golf carts and had limited range and purpose along with high costs. Even with government incentives.

But, some like the Volt having range extending petro engines or others with generators etc, can help reduce the range anxiety.

I think automotive journalist and the industry itself could do a better job of explaining the economic benefits/costs of operation much better.

Personally, I dismissed electric simply due to already high home electric bills and that is after swapping out to LED bulbs where I can and other measures.

The availability, ease and short time to refuel petro vehicles still works best for me. But, for those needing a commuter and or grocery getter etc. It does make sense.

Won't be long before its appealing to a wider market place.

 

[PrivatePilot]

The challenges facing EV adoption are courtesy of misinformation and FUD.

Tesla has been able to get through that based on their high end clientele - they are expensive, so the people interested in buying them are actually looking into the realities and comprehending the facts instead of just listening to some guy at Tim Hortons who heard a story about his sisters brothers bosses third brothers cousin who said they suck.

Many other manufacturers are not as successful as getting eyes on the product no matter HOW suitable an EV might be for them - people instead are swallowing the "You'll be sitting on the side of the road with a dead battery", or "The electricity will cost you more than gas would!" FUD, amongst all the other misinformation out there.

There are people that STILL think the Volt only goes 60K before it requires a tow truck if you're not near a receptacle.

 

[SunnY S]

You're out of touch. Plug-in hybrids and electrics are on course to exceed non plug-in hybrid sales this year according to Argonne National Labs.
http://www.anl.gov/energy-systems/project/light-duty-electric-drive-vehicles-monthly-sales-updates

Not crapping on you, but the transition to electric makes perfect sense since electric power is much more efficient than gas. It costs less per km, uses less energy per km, and depending on the power from the grid, can emit less pollution.

The transition has been happening in front of your eyes and it goes from ICE -> HEV -> Parallel PHEV -> Series PHEV -> BEV. But don't worry your pretty little head about all the different technologies. The gist of it is we're gradually moving to cars with bigger and bigger batteries in order to benefit from the advantages of electric power. And that means plug-in capability is an inescapable necessity which the public has clued in to. I'm sure Honda will figure it out too at some point, like they eventually figured out DI and turbos after everyone else.

We are going in circles now, but that's ok as many new ones have joined this thread and can't be bothered reading the whole thing.

As I said earlier, absolutely electric cars will take off. Just not yet.

It will be about 7 years before they become mainstream and affordable.

For now, hybrids are where it's at.

 

[blackcamaro]

So I'm in the car business which is why I've followed this thread. Electric vehicles aren't for me personally but I did want to try and learn a little about them because at some point I'm going to need to know. That time isn't now. I don't think we will see electric vehicles being mainstream for a good 10 years unless a major world event speeds up the time line.

I say this because in my experience there is almost zero interest in the market place. On our new car lease business side we haven't sold one. In terms of hybrids we do sell a limited amount of Toyota/Lexus product and there is a good demand for them on the used market as well.

Bigger picture then just our customer base. On the low side we wholesale over 500 cars a year so out of the past 5 years since the volt has been on the road that's over 2500 cars....I can remember 1 volt and that is it for plug ins. In bidding I lost a BMW I3 and the guy who beat me had it in stock for over a year.

There is never any chatter around the dealers I go to about interest in plug ins and at the auction you'll hear a little if a Tesla is running but at this point it's a little like they don't exist. I've been meaning to bring the conversation up but keep forgetting, I am curious to hear what others have to say.

I think direct fuel injection and smaller forced induction engines have slowed down interest in alternative power sources quite a bit. Cars are simply getting a lot better fuel economy then 10 years ago.

If if anyone is interested in a higher performance application do some reading on the Alta electric dirt bikes. Josh Hill raced one at the red bull straight rhythm and did alright on it. This could be pretty cool as it may make riding areas more accessible.

Anyways private pilot I'm going to keep reading to see how life with the Volt is. Try to do a 6 month update or something similar in regards to quirks if any etc.

 

[PrivatePilot]

For now, hybrids are where it's at.

For people unwilling or unable to take advantage of an EV or Range Extended EV like the volt, sure.

For people who's usage patterns favor the ability to operate completely (or even mostly, in our case) on electric power, yeah sorry, but a hybrid does NOT make the most sense.

That doesn't mean that people won't still discount them because of the FUD mentioned in my last post. There are people that buy totally impractical vehicles simply because they don't understand the alternatives - I'm reminded of a friend of the family who lives in Las Vegas who owns a massive 4WD because sometimes once every year or three they get a dusting of powder snow - without that 4WD she is convinced she would be immobilized for days.

 

[fastar1]

We are going in circles now, but that's ok as many new ones have joined this thread and can't be bothered reading the whole thing.

As I said earlier, absolutely electric cars will take off. Just not yet.

It will be about 7 years before they become mainstream and affordable.

For now, hybrids are where it's at.

OMG you're so right. Nobody should buy a plug in car until they become commonplace. Then everyone should buy one. Perfectly rational.

No coincidence of course, but I'll bet your "about 7 years" will end up being exactly the time when Honda has one on the market.

 

[PrivatePilot]

I don't think we will see electric vehicles being mainstream for a good 10 years unless a major world event speeds up the time line.

Anyone remember what happened with vehicle sales in 2007/8 (when gas was pushing $1.40/L) and again circa 2012 when it was nearing $1.30 again?

Yeah, gas guzzler sales fell into the toilet and econobox sales took off.

Arguably it was those two spikes that pushed the development of the Volt and other PEV/BEV vehicles.

Gas is once again, in the grand scheme of things, cheap.

If we suddenly find ourselves staring $1.40+ gas in the face again, history will repeat itself, and trust me....people will be seriously contemplating all cheaper options. If the auto makers capitalize on that if/when it happens and finally get the fact that electricity is CHEAP compared to gas on a per-kilometer basis through peoples heads, there will be a renaissance.

In the meantime, those same advantages are being enjoyed by many today. They just become more amplified as the gas prices rise.

 

[SunnY S]

OMG you're so right. Nobody should buy a plug in car until they become commonplace. Then everyone should buy one. Perfectly rational.

No coincidence of course, but I'll bet your "about 7 years" will end up being exactly the time when Honda has one on the market.

Your wrong and clueless as usual as well.

The Clarity is now rolling out with 3 versions as we speak. Hydrogen fuel cell, full electric version and plug in hybrid.

Thanks for coming out though.

 

[blackcamaro]

Anyone remember what happened with vehicle sales in 2007/8 (when gas was pushing $1.40/L) and again circa 2012 when it was nearing $1.30 again?

Yeah, gas guzzler sales fell into the toilet and econobox sales took off.
.

Thats what I was getting at but it would have to be bigger. The first time you mention people freaked out for about 6 months and then got back into the habit of needing to have a Tahoe etc for the family. 2012, I made the majority of my income selling pick-up trucks and couldn't get enough of them. For the most part people will buy what they like first and then look at alternatives only when they're absolutely forced.

 

[Brian P]

Your wrong and clueless as usual as well.

The Clarity is now rolling out with 3 versions as we speak. Hydrogen fuel cell, full electric version and plug in hybrid.

Thanks for coming out though.

Honda isn't being serious with that one, though. The EV has an 80 mile range ... http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/2017-honda-clarity-ev-have-about-80-mile-range

The Bolt is far more realistic ... now people just need to realize it.

And if it takes the Tesla name to sell people on the idea ... they're on track for production start of the 3 later this year. If there's a delay, it isn't going to be a major one.

 

[-D-]

BMW has 2 plug in electric cars on the market and nobody is buying those either.

in 2016 bmw sold around 1600 units of the i8 model. By comparison, Tesla moved around 80k units.

Now show us the price of the BMW and the range compared to the Tesla.
Tesla made a brand that is new and cool. BMW been around and the i8 costs how much compared to the VOLT.
If Volt had a better design or said Tesla then /

 

[-D-]

So I'm in the car business which is why I've followed this thread. Electric vehicles aren't for me personally but I did want to try and learn a little about them because at some point I'm going to need to know. That time isn't now. I don't think we will see electric vehicles being mainstream for a good 10 years unless a major world event speeds up the time line.

I say this because in my experience there is almost zero interest in the market place. On our new car lease business side we haven't sold one. In terms of hybrids we do sell a limited amount of Toyota/Lexus product and there is a good demand for them on the used market as well.

Bigger picture then just our customer base. On the low side we wholesale over 500 cars a year so out of the past 5 years since the volt has been on the road that's over 2500 cars....I can remember 1 volt and that is it for plug ins. In bidding I lost a BMW I3 and the guy who beat me had it in stock for over a year.

There is never any chatter around the dealers I go to about interest in plug ins and at the auction you'll hear a little if a Tesla is running but at this point it's a little like they don't exist. I've been meaning to bring the conversation up but keep forgetting, I am curious to hear what others have to say.

I think direct fuel injection and smaller forced induction engines have slowed down interest in alternative power sources quite a bit. Cars are simply getting a lot better fuel economy then 10 years ago.

If if anyone is interested in a higher performance application do some reading on the Alta electric dirt bikes. Josh Hill raced one at the red bull straight rhythm and did alright on it. This could be pretty cool as it may make riding areas more accessible.

Anyways private pilot I'm going to keep reading to see how life with the Volt is. Try to do a 6 month update or something similar in regards to quirks if any etc.

What types of cars do you lease?

I think the price point for a new Volt is a disadvantage because ppl will/can buy a nicer looking and brand of car.
Those that want to save on fuel will buy a cheap Elantra because a new Volt will be priced higher comparatively and the price of a Volt crosses into the nicer brand of cars that those buyers will drop the Volt from their list.

Make the price of the Volt $3k more than an Elantra and explain in a brochure or tv commercial what PP taught us and the numbers would be different imo.

 

[GateKeeper]

Tesla is having no issues in selling even in the GTA area, I only say this is just last month on the conservative side about 75 units came in for detailing, before the customers received them, and there are more coming and more being sold.

@PrivatePilot, I am not against you or your choice of vehicle, and I think it's great you did your research and you got what's best for you..

 

[blackcamaro]

What types of cars do you lease?

I think the price point for a new Volt is a disadvantage because ppl will/can buy a nicer looking and brand of car.
Those that want to save on fuel will buy a cheap Elantra because a new Volt will be priced higher comparatively and the price of a Volt crosses into the nicer brand of cars that those buyers will drop the Volt from their list.

Make the price of the Volt $3k more than an Elantra and explain in a brochure or tv commercial what PP taught us and the numbers would be different imo.

I work on the used wholesale side but we lease pretty much anything, mostly new cars and a used buyer will finance.

I agree. The price of admission is too high for a lot of people and starts getting close to the entry level luxury market. Like all tech the price will come down and once it's close to your example and people are recognizing them on the road I see electric as a real option.

 

[nakkers]

Anyone know what rebates, tax credits are available for EVs in Ontario?

 

[PrivatePilot]

My wife is home and I got today's stats. Very similar to yesterday for the most part. HVAC usage was heavy because of the humidity and the need for defog pretty much all day.

I'm looking forward to next weeks stats with no need for HVAC - the forecast is looking positively balmy compared to now. So far everything is strikingly within the earlier calculations I posted for expected consumption figures and savings.

The HVAC is having more of an effect than I expected on the range vs temps, but once we get the level 2 charger up and running here (I found one for $300 on Kijiji) preheat will be far more effective without affecting the electric range nearly as much - the Volt will be receiving 16A of 220v instead of 12a of 120v, so the grid can supply more of the preheat load.

 

[mimico_polak]

Anyone know what rebates, tax credits are available for EVs in Ontario?

My buddy got 14k discount right off the bat at the dealer as the Ontario incentive. I believe there's also close to 1k credit on the charger as well.

 

[fastar1]

Anyone know what rebates, tax credits are available for EVs in Ontario?

It's a big government secret, but I found the info leaked here.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/vehicles/electric/electric-vehicle-rebate.shtml

 

[fastar1]

Your wrong and clueless as usual as well.

The Clarity is now rolling out with 3 versions as we speak. Hydrogen fuel cell, full electric version and plug in hybrid.

Thanks for coming out though.

Brainiac, that's why I put "7 years" in quotes, and said it "will end up being..."

I stand by my claim. As soon as Honda has a plug-in on the market watch you change your tune and say the bandwagon is here guys, time to get on!

Still love how you think it makes sense for nobody to try anything before it gets popular. Sunny S, PhD LOL.

 

[SunnY S]

Still love how you think it makes sense for nobody to try anything before it gets popular. Sunny S, PhD LOL.

Early adopters and electric car fan boys are great, but It's the market thats speaking and all that really matters....