Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 133 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

Those experienced with designing bodyshells have lots of tricks they can use. One of the ways you manage panel gaps is to design the vehicle so that the gaps don't matter where possible (e.g. the edge of the panel comes up to something that inherently has a big opening or mismatch or is covered by a trim piece, as opposed to an adjacent panel whose edge has to coincide). Another way is to arrange to only have to align a gap to one adjacent part as opposed to having to match a gap on multiple sides of the part to multiple other parts. A big factor is how you manage your tolerance stack-up. Another big one is to take designed-in flex into account - the door gap has to be correct when the door is fully assembled with the interior trim and window glass and insulation etc, not necessarily when it's still an empty shell.

I drive a cheap little car built by a collaboration with two manufacturers that "the common wisdom" suggests they don't build quality products: Fiat, and Chrysler. Guess what ... Panel fitment is pretty good for what it is. And it has plenty of examples of designing such that the gaps don't matter as much. There is a skirt on the rocker panel that extends out from the bottom of the doors ... this also means that the edge of the door doesn't have to match in the in-and-out direction because the piece below it is at an angle anyhow. Likewise with where the trunk lid is adjacent to the rear bumper skin, which sticks out a bit past, so the alignment isn't as critical (lots of cars are like this). Likewise, the front bumper skin / fascia (which is one great big part) projects out past where the hood closes next to it - it's a design feature of the styling, but it also means it doesn't matter if the front edge of the hood is fore or aft a bit. The side / bottom edge of the hood also coincides with a design feature on the fenders, a crease that extends out a bit (and goes all the way around the car). Result ... if the side/bottom edge of the hood is in or out a bit, or if the fender itself is in or out a bit, you won't see it because the gap coincides with an angle between the two parts anyhow.
 
I'm not going to get into a p-match about quality and such, so this will be my only post on the subject.

Consistently, consistently, FCA products, some GMs and Jaguar/English brands (mini)

find themselves at or near the bottom of the list, not just once in a while, year after year.


Yes, they all have their merits, but quality isn't one of them.


2018 version https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...sumer-reports-10-worst-brands-list/418864002/
 
Sure. I don't care about what the news reports say. My car has better panel gaps than Tesla does. My car has NOTHING like the misfits shown on the linked thread a few posts up. And the windows haven't cracked, either. Not bad for +/- a tenth the price ...
 
SunnY S said:
I'm not going to get into a p-match about quality and such, so this will be my only post on the subject.

Consistently, consistently, FCA products, some GMs and Jaguar/English brands (mini)

find themselves at or near the bottom of the list, not just once in a while, year after year.


Yes, they all have their merits, but quality isn't one of them.


2018 version https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...sumer-reports-10-worst-brands-list/418864002/
Click to expand...

So Brian's car is consistently ranked near the bottom of the pack for panel fitment and it is by every objective and subjective measure much better than the M3? I don't understand your point.
 
Wandering back somewhere near topic ... I had my first extended test-drive of a hybrid last week, thanks to the Avis rental counter at GSP airport. "We've got you set up for an upgrade. We have a Ford Fusion for you." Ok, I'll take it!

Turned out that it was a Fusion hybrid, which had about 20,000 miles on it. Hybrid, but not an "energi", so no plug-in. I haven't driven EVs or hybrids for any length of time before, so this was a first aside from a brief try-out of mxs's Soul EV a couple months ago and a brief drive of a Prius years ago, which I hated due to its isolated driving experience (typical of Toyotas before the latest models on the TNGA platform).

First drive was down I85 to south of Greenville, then that evening, back to Spartanburg. I figured out the trip computer and reset it partway through this. If you drive it "normal" like any other car, the trip computer reports low-forties mpg US. I worked overtime for a couple of days and managed to buy myself some free time on Friday, which I used to give it some exercise; flight out wasn't until the evening. I did a road trip around Smoky Mountain National Park, about 350 miles, endpoint at GSP.

Ride, handling, and steering are same as the normal Fusion, which is quite well sorted. It has good power if you need it. If you drive it normal then it acts normal, mostly. The normal Fusion's normal automatic shift lever is replaced with a rotary dial. There is the usual (nowadays) keyless ignition, but the odd bit is a side effect of the hybrid powertrain. When you press the on/off button, the response is ... nothing. There's no engine cranking or sound of any sort. An indicator on the dash comes on, indicating that the car is ready to drive, and you can move off, silently, as long as you don't ask for much acceleration. Puttering around in parking lots can be done on EV power as long as you don't ask for heat or air-con.

The EV part of the powertrain is pretty lame. If you ask for any more than gentle acceleration, the engine starts. Although you can go 65 mph in EV mode on level ground, it won't do it for very long. It goes from full battery to a third (at which point the engine starts no matter what) in a couple of miles. If you are going down a long hill, and it regenerates enough for the battery to be fully charged, the engine starts (and revs high) in order to provide engine braking. But, the EV part of it is enough to help once you figure out how to make the most of it ...

On the longer road trip, I figured out how to game the system to get better mileage. There is an instant MPG indicator on the instrument panel, which is white when the engine is running and turns blue (and goes to the 60 mpg max on the display) when the engine is off, and there is another indicator of battery-charge status which has a graphic come on to indicate regenerative braking. The trick is to keep the engine off as much as possible, NOT use regenerative braking unless you actually have to slow down, and IF the engine is running, put some load on it (engines are more efficient when running under load). This means speeding up when the engine is running and letting it slow down a little when it is in EV mode to discourage the engine from starting, subtly taking advantage of hills and traffic in the process. You can get 55 - 60 mpg US at 70 mph once you figure out how to do this. In "eco" mode, there is a subtle dead spot in the accelerator pedal travel before the engine starts. Drivers who just want to drive like a normal car will hardly notice it but for those who want to hyper-mile, I'm sure this is designed in to allow them to feel what is happening and take advantage of it. (I did.)

There is a downside to the hybrid model. Because the battery pack was not designed into the vehicle, it's in the trunk ... and it eats up trunk space and prevents the rear seat from being folded down.

On twisty mountain roads, the well-sorted steering and suspension are positives, the inherent CVT operation of the hybrid system is odd. It's quick enough to respond to a demand for power, but the disconnect between engine note and road speed is strange. In some ways it feels and sounds like an old school automatic with a high-slip torque converter. The engine sound depends on accelerator position but not road speed.

Rental counters are luck of the draw - sometimes you get detritus, sometimes you get something you like. Overall I liked this one.
 
I just received a letter from the MTO about the incentive program. It stated that I must own and insure the vehicle for 12 months, or else they'll ask for the rebate back! I was never informed of this at the point of purchase. Just a warning to anyone else who doesn't read the fine print!

Guess I won't be selling the Volt anytime soon! ha!
 
Brian P said:
Wandering back somewhere near topic ... I had my first extended test-drive of a hybrid last week, thanks to the Avis rental counter at GSP airport. "We've got you set up for an upgrade. We have a Ford Fusion for you." Ok, I'll take it!

Turned out that it was a Fusion hybrid, which had about 20,000 miles on it. Hybrid, but not an "energi", so no plug-in. I haven't driven EVs or hybrids for any length of time before, so this was a first aside from a brief try-out of mxs's Soul EV a couple months ago and a brief drive of a Prius years ago, which I hated due to its isolated driving experience (typical of Toyotas before the latest models on the TNGA platform).

First drive was down I85 to south of Greenville, then that evening, back to Spartanburg. I figured out the trip computer and reset it partway through this. If you drive it "normal" like any other car, the trip computer reports low-forties mpg US. I worked overtime for a couple of days and managed to buy myself some free time on Friday, which I used to give it some exercise; flight out wasn't until the evening. I did a road trip around Smoky Mountain National Park, about 350 miles, endpoint at GSP.

Ride, handling, and steering are same as the normal Fusion, which is quite well sorted. It has good power if you need it. If you drive it normal then it acts normal, mostly. The normal Fusion's normal automatic shift lever is replaced with a rotary dial. There is the usual (nowadays) keyless ignition, but the odd bit is a side effect of the hybrid powertrain. When you press the on/off button, the response is ... nothing. There's no engine cranking or sound of any sort. An indicator on the dash comes on, indicating that the car is ready to drive, and you can move off, silently, as long as you don't ask for much acceleration. Puttering around in parking lots can be done on EV power as long as you don't ask for heat or air-con.

The EV part of the powertrain is pretty lame. If you ask for any more than gentle acceleration, the engine starts. Although you can go 65 mph in EV mode on level ground, it won't do it for very long. It goes from full battery to a third (at which point the engine starts no matter what) in a couple of miles. If you are going down a long hill, and it regenerates enough for the battery to be fully charged, the engine starts (and revs high) in order to provide engine braking. But, the EV part of it is enough to help once you figure out how to make the most of it ...

On the longer road trip, I figured out how to game the system to get better mileage. There is an instant MPG indicator on the instrument panel, which is white when the engine is running and turns blue (and goes to the 60 mpg max on the display) when the engine is off, and there is another indicator of battery-charge status which has a graphic come on to indicate regenerative braking. The trick is to keep the engine off as much as possible, NOT use regenerative braking unless you actually have to slow down, and IF the engine is running, put some load on it (engines are more efficient when running under load). This means speeding up when the engine is running and letting it slow down a little when it is in EV mode to discourage the engine from starting, subtly taking advantage of hills and traffic in the process. You can get 55 - 60 mpg US at 70 mph once you figure out how to do this. In "eco" mode, there is a subtle dead spot in the accelerator pedal travel before the engine starts. Drivers who just want to drive like a normal car will hardly notice it but for those who want to hyper-mile, I'm sure this is designed in to allow them to feel what is happening and take advantage of it. (I did.)

There is a downside to the hybrid model. Because the battery pack was not designed into the vehicle, it's in the trunk ... and it eats up trunk space and prevents the rear seat from being folded down.

On twisty mountain roads, the well-sorted steering and suspension are positives, the inherent CVT operation of the hybrid system is odd. It's quick enough to respond to a demand for power, but the disconnect between engine note and road speed is strange. In some ways it feels and sounds like an old school automatic with a high-slip torque converter. The engine sound depends on accelerator position but not road speed.

Rental counters are luck of the draw - sometimes you get detritus, sometimes you get something you like. Overall I liked this one.
Click to expand...

Brian,

Thanks for this. This is exactly my experience with the C-Max I purchased earlier this year. Around 40 MPGs driving it as I would any vehicle and care free. I’ve been achieving 50 MPGs when driving as described.

It’s not a Volt but, it’s a comfortable hatchback that gets decent fuel economy and the driving experience is pretty good.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I saw a Clarity in person yesterday for the first time.

The car looks nice from the B-Pillar forward, but from the B-Pillar back it is just bizarre. It totally ruins the car for me.
 
caboose56 said:
I saw a Clarity in person yesterday for the first time.

The car looks nice from the B-Pillar forward, but from the B-Pillar back it is just bizarre. It totally ruins the car for me.
Click to expand...


I agree its not for everyone and it looks best in a dark colour, but its a design with purpose, not for the sake of "looking funny". For example, The Clarity has the worlds first functioning rear air curtains on a production sedan, and if you are really a nerd, I could list, all other kinds of details Honda worked into the design to cheat the wind.

As a result, the Clarity has the lowest Drag Coefficient of any Honda production sedan in history. It seats 5 and has a near Acura level interior for slightly more than a Volt.

Honda figures if you want a "normal" sedan, you would buy an Accord Hybrid. The Clarity serves a different purpose and is pretty much an Accord in size and driving style except a little heavier. Dealers can't get their hands on them, so they must be doing something right.


Another winner will be the 2019 Honda Insight. Its an upscale version of the already great Civic, and gets 55mpg. Pretty sure they will sell loads of these with gas prices on the rise.
 
SunnY S said:
I agree its not for everyone and it looks best in a dark colour, but its a design with purpose, not for the sake of "looking funny". For example, The Clarity has the worlds first functioning rear air curtains on a production sedan, and if you are really a nerd, I could list, all other kinds of details Honda worked into the design to cheat the wind.

As a result, the Clarity has the lowest Drag Coefficient of any Honda production sedan in history. It seats 5 and has a near Acura level interior for slightly more than a Volt.

Honda figures if you want a "normal" sedan, you would buy an Accord Hybrid. The Clarity serves a different purpose and is pretty much an Accord in size and driving style except a little heavier. Dealers can't get their hands on them, so they must be doing something right.


Another winner will be the 2019 Honda Insight. Its an upscale version of the already great Civic, and gets 55mpg. Pretty sure they will sell loads of these with gas prices on the rise.
Click to expand...
I can see some honesty creeping into your posts, good job!
 
Yah, I get it.

Super aero = MPGs but as someone who needs to like what he’s driving I can’t deal.

Some OEMs seem determined to make their EVs look stupid. After eons of the Prius looking stupid Toyota finally made some big headway and the current versions look pretty decent.
 
Designing cars to improve aerodynamics is not a grand technical achievement. Cars in the 90s were trending towards optimal aerodynamics, with more models moving towards the ideal teardrop shape. But this also meant cars were losing distinctive looks for their brands/identities. The hard part of designing for car aerodynamics now is not optimizing CoD, but how to make the car look distinctive (which usually means moving away from the ideal shape) and be slippery in the air.
 
Not electric but funny... a friend of mine bought a Dodge Charger in the first year (very early in the release) they came back out. The panel gaps were so bad it looked like the car had been in a major front end accident. He went back to the dealership to complain and they told him "what do you expect, its a Chrysler..."

In the end, there are always some growing pains as production ramps up.
 
caboose56 said:
After eons of the Prius looking stupid Toyota finally made some big headway and the current versions look pretty decent.
Click to expand...

Really? You like the "Dracula's teeth" taillights on the current model, and the bizarre number of creases and folds in the nose and tail?

The "Prius Prime" (I think this is the plug-in version, could be wrong, I don't pay much attention to cars that I hate) loses the taillights that extend down into the bumper. There's still a piece in the bumper (reflector?) but the main taillights are normal on those, and the front end is less bizarre.

I hated the Prius generations up until now for the way they drove (video-game over-assisted steering being my main objection). Supposedly the new one, on Toyota's so-called TNGA platform, mostly fixes the ride and handling, but they broke the styling.

I understand that the Prius is soon to get a mid-cycle styling makeover ... sales have dropped considerably; no doubt part of that is due to fuel prices and increasing competition in the green-car market, but surely part of it is the styling, which is widely considered to be objectionable.

On a related note ... I saw two different Hyundai Ioniq Electrics yesterday, one on highway 10 northbound towards Orangeville, one on Mayfield Road. Hyundai did a good job with those. I'm also seeing more of the new Nissan Leafs than of the old one. That one deserves an award for most-improved appearance. The old one looked like a turd. The new one looks pretty good. It's hard to believe that they use the same doors and window glass.
 
Brian P said:
Really? You like the "Dracula's teeth" taillights on the current model, and the bizarre number of creases and folds in the nose and tail?

The "Prius Prime" (I think this is the plug-in version, could be wrong, I don't pay much attention to cars that I hate) loses the taillights that extend down into the bumper. There's still a piece in the bumper (reflector?) but the main taillights are normal on those, and the front end is less bizarre.

I hated the Prius generations up until now for the way they drove (video-game over-assisted steering being my main objection). Supposedly the new one, on Toyota's so-called TNGA platform, mostly fixes the ride and handling, but they broke the styling.

I understand that the Prius is soon to get a mid-cycle styling makeover ... sales have dropped considerably; no doubt part of that is due to fuel prices and increasing competition in the green-car market, but surely part of it is the styling, which is widely considered to be objectionable.

On a related note ... I saw two different Hyundai Ioniq Electrics yesterday, one on highway 10 northbound towards Orangeville, one on Mayfield Road. Hyundai did a good job with those. I'm also seeing more of the new Nissan Leafs than of the old one. That one deserves an award for most-improved appearance. The old one looked like a turd. The new one looks pretty good. It's hard to believe that they use the same doors and window glass.
Click to expand...

Upon further investigation there appears to be be quite a few models of the Prius now. I was referring specifically to the Prius C, the 5-door wagon thingy. After some googling, the tail lights on the Prius 2/3/4 sure pretty odd. The Prius Prime looks much more normal.
 
Really wanted to like the Prius C.

Terrible ride, terrible driving experience and the road noise was unreal for a modern vehicle.

Love to save $ on fuel but, it was asking too much from me to compromise. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
HDRod said:
I just received a letter from the MTO about the incentive program. It stated that I must own and insure the vehicle for 12 months, or else they'll ask for the rebate back! I was never informed of this at the point of purchase. Just a warning to anyone else who doesn't read the fine print!

Guess I won't be selling the Volt anytime soon! ha!
Click to expand...

Did you not have to fill out an application that specified this? I'm pretty sure it is part of the EVIP application process...
 
Alright time for an 8 month update on my Gen1...

total km.....14,459
total fuel...154L

id say I’m happy with those numbers!

Thanks again for for all the contributors and especially PP for all the info in the decision I made.
 
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