Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

[GreyGhost]

I saw a grey clarity in the wild yesterday. Yes, it looks better than the white one, but damn is the back half still ugly. Lots of junk in the trunk on that one and the giant black cutouts on the bumper consistent with honda's new styling should have been left with the Type R.

 

[fastar1]

I may have asked this before, but how far is it from your breaker panel to where you park?

I just bought 2 new 16A EVSE’s from Amazon for $275 each and since they’re only 16A (the max the Volt can draw anyways @240V) you only need 12/2 wiring on a 20a breaker. A spool of 75’ of 12/2 armor cable wire is only $50 or something like that at Home Depot.

So for around $350, if you’re handy, you can have a L2.

It's not just a matter of being handy but also being savvy about electrical hazards and prevention. Just like crossing the road or anything else, just because you know the basic how-to doesn't mean you're clear to do it whenever you want.

 

[PrivatePilot]

It's not just a matter of being handy but also being savvy about electrical hazards and prevention. Just like crossing the road or anything else, just because you know the basic how-to doesn't mean you're clear to do it whenever you want.

I’d consider that part of being “savvy”, but yes, electrical work isn’t for everyone.

Option B is of course to just pay an electrician to add the circuit, and buy the EVSE on Amazon. Again, a 20a 240V circuit is much less costly than anything bigger that requires much heavier wire.

 

[Evoex]

If anyone requires contact info for a Master Electrician shoot me a PM. A good friend of mine is licensed and does side jobs, lately hes been doing a lot of Tesla/EV residential installs.

This is purely to help him out, i don't see a penny for referral.

 

[slowbird]

I may have asked this before, but how far is it from your breaker panel to where you park?

We touched on this briefly many many pages ago. lol. I rent and if I do get the work done it would need to be professionally done. I know for a fact if I ask my landlord he will say no. It took me a long long time to get him to say yes to me replace the plain-jane thermostat in the apartment with a Nest and that's an incredibly minor thing.

My place is one of those stacked townhomes. I luckily have an apt on the main floor and I think (I'd have to measure it out to be sure) my bedroom is directly behind my garage....and my bedroom is where the breaker panel is.

So if I'm lucky the wiring is already sufficient enough to handle the amperage and I just need someone to change the breaker and the outlet.

If I'm unlucky new wiring would need to be run and I don't know how that could be done without ruining the walls?

Either way I need someone licensed to do it because I don't own this place and I don't have the right to mess around with someone elses property, or risk the lives of the other occupants of the building if I burn it down.

If anyone requires contact info for a Master Electrician shoot me a PM. A good friend of mine is licensed and does side jobs, lately hes been doing a lot of Tesla/EV residential installs.

This is purely to help him out, i don't see a penny for referral.

Would he charge to come over and give me an estimate?

 

[nobbie48]

If anyone requires contact info for a Master Electrician shoot me a PM. A good friend of mine is licensed and does side jobs, lately hes been doing a lot of Tesla/EV residential installs.

This is purely to help him out, i don't see a penny for referral.

I am under the impression that ESA requires the work to be done by a licensed electrical contractor. John Doe, a licensed electrician, can do the work if he's working under the license of his employer but he can't, on his own, change a light switch for his grandmother to keep her from falling down a flight of stairs in the dark.

 

[GreyGhost]

So if I'm lucky the wiring is already sufficient enough to handle the amperage and I just need someone to change the breaker and the outlet.

The chance that they 12/2 and put a 15A breaker and plug on it is as close to 0 as you can get. Copper is expensive. Also, even if they did run 12/2, it will almost certainly be black/white for 120V not black/red for 220V. It's not legal to just tape the ends anymore to let people know what conductors you are using as hot lines (on wire below a certain size, maybe 4 ga?).

You are looking at running new wire, a double breaker and outlet. I can't see that being worthwhile. If I was the landlord, I might allow you to pay an electrician to do it, but that costs you more than all the fuel you will ever save. I wouldn't pay for it as it would cost me more than I would ever recover from renters.

 

[PrivatePilot]

but that costs you more than all the fuel you will ever save. I wouldn't pay for it as it would cost me more than I would ever recover from renters.

I've been going through 2 full charges a day on my Volt, the only thing that makes that possible is my L2.

Each "Second charge" saves me about $4 in gas each time, so times 5.5 days a week (an average) saves me nearly $90 a week, so the math for me on payoff was very, very quick.

I know that same math doesn't apply to everyone, but even if it's only 4 times a week you get a full second charge because of the L2, that's still potentially $60-$70/month in gas saved. Even if you're looking at $400-$500 to get one installed ($275 for the EVSE and $300 for the electrician, assuming it's a reasonably straightforward install) the costs can be recouped in the 6 month range.

 

[GreyGhost]

I've been going through 2 full charges a day on my Volt, the only thing that makes that possible is my L2.

Each "Second charge" saves me about $4 in gas each time, so times 5.5 days a week (an average) saves me nearly $90 a week, so the math for me on payoff was very, very quick.

I know that same math doesn't apply to everyone, but even if it's only 4 times a week you get a full second charge because of the L2, that's still potentially $60-$70/month in gas saved. Even if you're looking at $400-$500 to get one installed ($275 for the EVSE and $300 for the electrician, assuming it's a reasonably straightforward install) the costs can be recouped in the 6 month range.

Most commuters will only be getting one charge a day at home. I suspect that for many, L2 vs L1 may just be the difference between leaving with a full battery and leaving with a battery at 70%. If I am correct (which is obviously debatable), savings are ~$20/month.

I also assumed much much more for an electrician. I figured by the time you are paying electricians to pull copper through finished walls and bulkheads (as most condos have the elec panel ~in the center of the suite) you would be $1000 or more to get the plug installed. You would also likely be looking at some drywall repairs and painting as in most condos I haven't seen a simple way to get a fish from the exterior wall to the panel so you probably need to open up access panels to divide it into straight runs.

If/when I get something that plugs in without a doubt I will install a L2 charger. On a rental property, I just don't see the math working unless you plan to stay for quite a while.

 

[fastar1]

I've been going through 2 full charges a day on my Volt, the only thing that makes that possible is my L2.

Each "Second charge" saves me about $4 in gas each time, so times 5.5 days a week (an average) saves me nearly $90 a week, so the math for me on payoff was very, very quick.

I know that same math doesn't apply to everyone, but even if it's only 4 times a week you get a full second charge because of the L2, that's still potentially $60-$70/month in gas saved. Even if you're looking at $400-$500 to get one installed ($275 for the EVSE and $300 for the electrician, assuming it's a reasonably straightforward install) the costs can be recouped in the 6 month range.

LOL the math doesn't even apply to you, since you're comparing your old apple to your new orange, but whatever. Cheerlead on.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Most commuters will only be getting one charge a day at home

A lot of families commute to/from work and then come home, have dinner, and head back out again to take the kids to sports, run errands, etc etc. This is where an L2 comes in handy. It's nearly pointless to plug into an L1 for 1.5-2 hours, but an L2 will get you a half charge in 1.5 hours, and about 75% in 2 hours.

In the summer, that's a notable number of all electric Kilometers again as a result.

LOL the math doesn't even apply to you, since you're comparing your old apple to your new orange, but whatever. Cheerlead on.

No, that's actually what I'd burn in the Volt if I was running on gas vs electricity for those same number of Kilometers that a full charge gives me, so uh, apples to apples, thanks. And that figure was conservative as well given reduced winter mileage - in the summer when things are running at their peak a full charge can offset close to about 5L or gas per charge, so $6 or so.

If I was comparing to my old Magnum, each charge would save me about 8-9L in gas this time of year, so >$10.00 savings per charge.

 

[Evoex]

Would he charge to come over and give me an estimate?

No. He would likely speak to you on the phone or email about the job and perhaps ask for some pictures. I can't say if he'd quote without seeing it in person but he doesn't charge for that part.

 

[Evoex]

I am under the impression that ESA requires the work to be done by a licensed electrical contractor. John Doe, a licensed electrician, can do the work if he's working under the license of his employer but he can't, on his own, change a light switch for his grandmother to keep her from falling down a flight of stairs in the dark.

I don't claim to know much about the electrician field but that may only refer to certain changes that actually require an inspection. Either way he has his own registered company and is insured.

 

[slowbird]

My thoughts on getting a Lvl2 charger at home are in line with what GreyGhost wrote. Most likely a lot of work and more $$ then it's worth especially considering who knows how long I'll be staying in this place.
If I owned, it would be a different story.

Also, I'd say most likely I would only get 1 or so extra charges with the Lvl2 however in the colder climate I may get a little more. Most of the time it's that last 10-20% that takes forever and that's not worth the cost of getting an electrician to come in.

No. He would likely speak to you on the phone or email about the job and perhaps ask for some pictures. I can't say if he'd quote without seeing it in person but he doesn't charge for that part.

Thanks. Something for me to consider

 

[backmarkerducati]

I don't claim to know much about the electrician field but that may only refer to certain changes that actually require an inspection. Either way he has his own registered company and is insured.

Pretty much all electrical work by law/code requires a permit and an ESA inspection. INCLUDING work done by licensed electricians. Technically something as simple as adding an new outlet needs a permit. If you pay someone to do the work they MUST be licensed.

The unlicensed home owner is legally allowed to do electrical work on their own home in Ontario IF they live in the house (you cannot do work say on a rental you own). It requires a permit and an ESA inspection, same as above. I know I am completely rewiring my house with a permit.

As part of my rewire I am adding a 240V (50A) stove outlet in the garage. For welder or future electric car...The charging stations can be had with a plug instead of hard wired, if not hard wired they can also be excluded from the sale of the home.

Now I am sure some electricians do all kinds of work without a permit, just like contractors, plumbers, etc. do all kinds work without a permit, but the rules say NO. Hope this clears it up...

https://www.esasafe.com/consumers/home-buying-selling-and-renovating/do-it-yourself/#top

 

[Evoex]

Just texted my friend.

"ESA inspection comes with the permit. If I am adding anything to the installation then I need a permit. If I am replacing, like for like, then no permit."

Just a general fyi.

 

[nobbie48]

Pretty much all electrical work by law/code requires a permit and an ESA inspection. INCLUDING work done by licensed electricians. Technically something as simple as adding an new outlet needs a permit. If you pay someone to do the work they MUST be licensed.

The unlicensed home owner is legally allowed to do electrical work on their own home in Ontario IF they live in the house (you cannot do work say on a rental you own). It requires a permit and an ESA inspection, same as above. I know I am completely rewiring my house with a permit.

As part of my rewire I am adding a 240V (50A) stove outlet in the garage. For welder or future electric car...The charging stations can be had with a plug instead of hard wired, if not hard wired they can also be excluded from the sale of the home.

Now I am sure some electricians do all kinds of work without a permit, just like contractors, plumbers, etc. do all kinds work without a permit, but the rules say NO. Hope this clears it up...

https://www.esasafe.com/consumers/home-buying-selling-and-renovating/do-it-yourself/#top

Per ESA FAQ's

If you are doing work on your own home or if you are an occupant in a residential dwelling you will be permitted to take out an application for inspection for that property only;

College of Trades and Ministry of Labour may have different ideas.

 

[SunnY S]

Notwithstanding the constant plug in nonsense every night with these types of vehicles,


great read by a company that studied EV range in the cold. and reported back on numerous vehicles. http://driving.ca/tesla/auto-news/news/314908


plug in hybrids start to lose range at 3 degrees celcius. at -5 C, range "drops off a cliff". Not great for our typical canadian winters.



As the facts become revealed, Hydrogen makes more and more sense, and smart canadians will realize this. NO range loss with Hydrogen cars in the winter, and you can blast the car heat fan all you want. And you can park wherever you want without the silly plug in nonsense.

 

[GreyGhost]

As the facts become revealed, Hydrogen makes more and more sense, and smart canadians will realize this. NO range loss with Hydrogen cars in the winter, and you can blast the car heat fan all you want. And you can park wherever you want without the silly plug in nonsense.

Of course there is range loss when you are blasting a heater. Hydrogen and electric are both exactly the same in this regard. You need to generate the required ~3kW of heat somehow. It is free heat in ICE because they are inefficient and make tons of heat they need to dump somewhere anyway.

Energy density and price are what it comes down to. Time will tell which energy source will ultimately prevail.

 

[mxs]

Facts become revealed, the holy grail has been found, and to the dismay of the EV crowd .... crap he had me worried there for a second. My car is still outside though .... hopefully it will work on the way home. Keeping my fingers crossed. Only 2C outside. Could it be that I turn the heater on and my range will be instantly wiped out when the heater comes on? I hate to be this insecure. Damn it, I should have bought something else ... some Honda hybrid, or Clarity FCEV or something along those lines. Anything, but pure EV ... big mistake. Oh well. Hopefully, summer will be here soon ....