Questionable bike safety

[slowbird]

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Yes only if they did not meet spec, if specs were met then NO, they would not be a cause for concern or flagged for any reason....

yes and no.

Yes, if they did not meet spec they wouldn't have passed the safety. That part was mentioned earlier in the thread and no one is disputing that.
...and you are also correct that if it did meet spec it could pass safety. Also mentioned earlier and again no one is disputing that.

However, since the Motorcycle shop that did the safety flagged the chain as needing adjustment, something not necessary for the safety, you'd hope they would have also flagged the more serious issue to be looked at. (the brakes)

i.e. "The bike Passed safety. The chain could use an adjustment. However, more importantly, the front of the bike shakes like a leaf when you apply the front brakes. feels like a warped rotor. We recommend you leave it with us to diagnose it further."

...or something along those lines.

 

[slowbird]

I may still be naive enough to think that any mechanic that is providing a safety to the seller of a vehicle would go above the minimum work required...

Amen to that. Well said. Thanks Joe.

 

[Neil_V]

@slowbird, I can only offer my opinion, but it is such that I agree with most if not all of what you have posted. I would expect that even if passed minimum safety standards, that any concerns would be brought forth. I may or may not have gotten a shady safety on one or three vehicles in the past, but only on vehicles I was purchasing, and would be fixing in the near future. I may still be naive enough to think that any mechanic that is providing a safety to the seller of a vehicle would go above the minimum work required, at least as an fyi.
I guess the lesson here, at least for me, is to be present at the safety, if at all possible.

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Or better yet, make the sale conditional on YOUR mechanics findings.

yes and no.

Yes, if they did not meet spec they wouldn't have passed the safety. That part was mentioned earlier in the thread and no one is disputing that.
...and you are also correct that if it did meet spec it could pass safety. Also mentioned earlier and again no one is disputing that.

However, since the Motorcycle shop that did the safety flagged the chain as needing adjustment, something not necessary for the safety, you'd hope they would have also flagged the more serious issue to be looked at. (the brakes)

i.e. "The bike Passed safety. The chain could use an adjustment. However, more importantly, the front of the bike shakes like a leaf when you apply the front brakes. feels like a warped rotor. We recommend you leave it with us to diagnose it further."

...or something along those lines.

If the vibration is as severe as you're describing it, I would be skeptical of a road test being performed. I would also suggest having the run-out checked. If it's out, you have grounds to seek out some sort of resolution with the inspecting shop, provided to much time hasn't passed. With time, the old "it was fine at the time of inspection" argument gains traction and you'll be hard pressed to prove them wrong; if that's your intent of course.

ps. If chain adjustment was flagged because it was out of the manufacturer's adjustment specification, that actually would constitute a fail under 1. ( 8 ) The chain, belt or driven sprocket shall not be excessively worn, frayed or loose and no fasteners in connection with those parts shall be missing, loose, cut or damaged... (didn't notice you saying that until now, I just thought it was a few tight links)

 

[slowbird]

If the vibration is as severe as you're describing it, I would be skeptical of a road test being performed. I would also suggest having the run-out checked. If it's out, you have grounds to seek out some sort of resolution with the inspecting shop, provided to much time hasn't passed. With time, the old "it was fine at the time of inspection" argument gains traction and you'll be hard pressed to prove them wrong; if that's your intent of course.

I'm having the bike checked later today. However, even if they find excessive run out and I speak to the original shop about it they can easily say something must have happened in the week since it was safetied.

I was never in the mindset to go after that shop. I'm just taking this one step at a time.
Today will be to get bike inspected and then share results with previous owner.

ps. If chain adjustment was flagged because it was out of the manufacturer's adjustment specification, that actually would constitute a fail under 1. ( 8 ) The chain, belt or driven sprocket shall not be excessively worn, frayed or loose and no fasteners in connection with those parts shall be missing, loose, cut or damaged... (didn't notice you saying that until now, I just thought it was a few tight links)

It was flagged under a recommended service of "Adjust chain tension". No mention that it was too stretched to be any more good.

To my eye it looks rusty and some of the link look stuck. I'm planning to scrub it and see what it looks like with all the grime off it and go from there.

 

[GateKeeper]

I'm having the bike checked later today. However, even if they find excessive run out and I speak to the original shop about it they can easily say something must have happened in the week since it was safetied.

I was never in the mindset to go after that shop. I'm just taking this one step at a time.
Today will be to get bike inspected and then share results with previous owner.



It was flagged under a recommended service of "Adjust chain tension". No mention that it was too stretched to be any more good.

To my eye it looks rusty and some of the link look stuck. I'm planning to scrub it and see what it looks like with all the grime off it and go from there.

perhaps it wasn't stretched and all it needed was to be adjusted to proper tension

get a brand new chain, don't lube it and ride around a day or two while it's raining it will show rust, so what your eye is possibly seeing is just that, clean it up, lube it, and check for kinks, I don't see what the fixation is on this chain

You sound like a intelligent guy, seems you have been around bikes, and older ones at that, yet you are fixated on a what you think is a rusty and stretched and kinked chain, yet it passed the safety, same goes for the brakes, perhaps they are and bit shaky but in tolerance and again passed safety, maybe the pads need replacing and not the rotors, perhaps the brake system needs to be bled, maybe there is air in the system and your getting the pulsations, but even to see how much run out there is you could check at home.

I am not trying to be an arse here, but you purchased a bike, got a safety done, a week later you plated it and got it on the road, and now you complain, I just don't get it.....

you asked should these items have been flagged during the inspection, and again I will say, NO, as it appears they met spec and bike passed, maybe they didn't meet your spec, but if that is the case, then change the parts and have the satisfaction that the bike is 100 percent according your standards.

I know this will come off the wrong way, and it would be best to have a person to person convo, but hey it's the internet and sometimes conveying what is on my mind into words and someone understanding the way it's supposed to be just might not happen

.

 

[Neil_V]

perhaps it wasn't stretched and all it needed was to be adjusted to proper tension

get a brand new chain, don't lube it and ride around a day or two while it's raining it will show rust, so what your eye is possibly seeing is just that, clean it up, lube it, and check for kinks, I don't see what the fixation is on this chain

You sound like a intelligent guy, seems you have been around bikes, and older ones at that, yet you are fixated on a what you think is a rusty and stretched and kinked chain, yet it passed the safety, same goes for the brakes, perhaps they are and bit shaky but in tolerance and again passed safety, maybe the pads need replacing and not the rotors, perhaps the brake system needs to be bled, maybe there is air in the system and your getting the pulsations, but even to see how much run out there is you could check at home.

I am not trying to be an arse here, but you purchased a bike, got a safety done, a week later you plated it and got it on the road, and now you complain, I just don't get it.....

you asked should these items have been flagged during the inspection, and again I will say, NO, as it appears they met spec and bike passed, maybe they didn't meet your spec, but if that is the case, then change the parts and have the satisfaction that the bike is 100 percent according your standards.

I know this will come off the wrong way, and it would be best to have a person to person convo, but hey it's the internet and sometimes conveying what is on my mind into words and someone understanding the way it's supposed to be just might not happen

.

Sorry man, but i'm not seeing Snowbird acting all butt hurt or even complaining. He made a thread and asked for opinion on brake pulse and chain wear as he perceived it, and it's relevance in regards to Ontario safety standards. Some people have kindly taken the time to elaborate on safety standards; others have complained that he' a complainer.. ironic

ps. qualifying jerkiness after said jerkiness does nothing to mitigate the level of jerkiness which preceded qualification ... anyway I'ma jerk on outta here

 

[GateKeeper]

And just as I said, it would not be taken in the manner I tried to write it.....

OHHHH well

Whatever......

All I see is someone thinking something is wrong, where a licensed Mechanic who did the safety and passed it, did not, right or wrong it was done by a licensed mechanic, and sounds like at a reputable shop, so again I don't get the reason for the questioning of the passed safety, why not get a second opinion, have they seller pay for it, and or walk away from the deal altogether

.

 

[slowbird]

Thanks again Neil V.

And just as I said, it would not be taken in the manner I tried to write it.....

Sometimes when people read others messages a tone or attitude can be read that the initial writer didn't intend. However your comments could easily put someone on the defensive.

All I see is someone thinking something is wrong, where a licensed Mechanic who did the safety and passed it, did not, right or wrong it was done by a licensed mechanic, and sounds like at a reputable shop, so again I don't get the reason for the questioning of the passed safety,

Perhaps you should step back and try to see it differently? How about if they found the issue with the bike I wouldn't be in this situation when other shops I talk to said they check things like this?

why not get a second opinion, have they seller pay for it,

I am getting a second opinion. I mentioned that. Go back and read.
The seller has mentioned possible compensation. I mentioned that. Go back and read.

you are fixated on a what you think is a rusty and stretched and kinked chain, yet it passed the safety,

I'm not "fixated" on the chain. I was answering Neil V's question. Initially the chain was brought up as an original concern about the bike, and then to bring up the point that the mechanic that issued the Safety took the time to point out something unrelated to the safety, by calling a regular chain adjustment, yet failed to point out the more serious front brake issue. That leads me to believe the mechanic never did the safety properly.
I can swap the chain. I've done it a million times. But a warped front disc is $$$

perhaps it wasn't stretched and all it needed was to be adjusted to proper tension

That's what I was saying to Neil in the post that you quoted and bolded of mine.

you asked should these items have been flagged during the inspection, and again I will say, NO, as it appears they met spec and bike passed.

You are missing the point and I'm getting tired of trying to explain it. I'm not saying the safety should have flagged the chain. But the safety inspection would have found the faults with the brakes and would have then been forwarded to the owner. JUST LIKE THE MINOR CHAIN ADJUSTMENT WAS.
So Imagine the tech saying: "Ok. Safety done. Chain could use adjustment. I'll recommend that service. Brakes were vibrating. That should definitely be looked at. I'll recommend that too." But that never happened. They only recommend the chain adjustment.
Because they didn't find the brake problem because they didn't properly safety the bike because the brake problem is obvious upon riding it.

The other option was they did notice the brake problem but didn't report it...which is terrifying.

maybe they didn't meet your spec, but if that is the case, then change the parts and have the satisfaction that the bike is 100 percent according your standards.

My standards are quite low. lol I've owned some ratty old bikes. If the rotors were affordable I'd replace them without a peep.

I am not trying to be an arse here, but you purchased a bike, got a safety done, a week later you plated it and got it on the road, and now you complain, I just don't get it...

Well you're not trying to not be one. Read over your comments.

...and fyi I got the safety done, plated it and rode it the next day. Then spent the following day pulling the front brakes apart hoping it wouldn't be a warped rotor. That night I posted this thread to try and get to the bottom and get suggestions on how best to move forward. (most people suggesting to "suck it up" in one way or another which I don't agree with)

...and yes...You don't get it. So maybe please try and be more empathetic or stop trying at all.

 

[GateKeeper]

seems you and I could do this dance forever

hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction

just waiting to read what the other shops say once they actually have the bike in their shop and are doing the safety on it, not just giving you a verbal....well we would have done this or that..

end of posting in this thread, gonna just sit back and read....

Cheers

 

[slowbird]

hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction

Thank you. I hope so too.

I imagine I am out of pocket for the cost of rotors.

 

[slowbird]

Shop says both rotors have excessive run-out past manufacturers limits.

Tech even took it around the Parking lot and commented that he can even feel it in the lever. (as well as the obvious other signs when riding)

Waiting to hear back from original seller to see if he'll work something out with me.

It'd be ****** if I had to sell the bike back to him and be out of pocket the taxes I spent registering it, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

 

[Neil_V]

Shop says both rotors have excessive run-out past manufacturers limits.

Tech even took it around the Parking lot and commented that he can even feel it in the lever. (as well as the obvious other signs when riding)

Waiting to hear back from original seller to see if he'll work something out with me.

It'd be ****** if I had to sell the bike back to him and be out of pocket the taxes I spent registering it, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Rotors are not cheap I know; but may I suggest not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
If you like the bike, and your mechanic tells you it's otherwise in good nick , it will be worth your investment.

Edit:
Reading further back I'm guessing mega coin is the issue for the rotor... Maybe used? Or honestly, and I hate recommending this because it could have been a bad day; shop pressure; honest mistake or whatever on the original inspecting tech, but mabye it's time to contact the original shop yourself and seek resolution. If the second tech can feel a pulse at parking lot speed, you have reason to be disappointed in the original shops inspection; that's huge

 

[slowbird]

Spoke with the seller and he's leaning towards the "too bad so sad" option.

Rotors are not cheap I know; but may I suggest not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
If you like the bike, and your mechanic tells you it's otherwise in good nick , it will be worth your investment.

So far my initial experiences with the bike have been bad, but when stuff like this happens I try and think about it like I'm "rescuing" the bike. I'm giving it a better life than it had before. lol. (at the expense of my wallet unfortunately)

Edit:
Reading further back I'm guessing mega coin is the issue for the rotor... Maybe used?

I am looking at used, but it's a dice roll as they could be warped too.

Or honestly, and I hate recommending this because it could have been a bad day; shop pressure; honest mistake or whatever on the original inspecting tech, but mabye it's time to contact the original shop yourself and seek resolution. If the second tech can feel a pulse at parking lot speed, you have reason to be disappointed in the original shops inspection; that's huge

The seller is asking me to do this but I really can't see a favorable outcome coming from it. It's already been said that checking rotor-run out isn't something that is usually done during a safety.

Yes the shop should have taken it for a test ride and noted the brake problem, but they could easily say the seller warped the brakes on his way to delivering me the bike or I did after taking delivery.

I'm scouring the internet looking for rotors and in the meantime I'll ponder what my options are, though the obvious one is to open my wallet and fix the bike and move on. :|

 

[Neil_V]

The seller is asking me to do this but I really can't see a favorable outcome coming from it. It's already been said that checking rotor-run out isn't something that is usually done during a safety.

Yes the shop should have taken it for a test ride and noted the brake problem, but they could easily say the seller warped the brakes on his way to delivering me the bike or I did after taking delivery.

But it should have been since a simple test ride would have indicated a pulsation at PARKING LOT speed, and this is how you need to approach them. That's my professional opinion. In fairness to the seller, he didn't sign the safety so I side with him on his "not my problem" position. as for the shop saying it was fine when they inspected, sure they could go that route, but they may also handle this in the way I would; and that is right the situation the best I can within reason and avoid the MTO showing up at ALL cost. I'd rather not be on their radar thank you very much

 

[slowbird]

But it should have been since a simple test ride would have indicated a pulsation at PARKING LOT speed, and this is how you need to approach them. That's my professional opinion. In fairness to the seller, he didn't sign the safety so I side with him on his "not my problem" position. as for the shop saying it was fine when they inspected, sure they could go that route, but they may also handle this in the way I would; and that is right the situation the best I can within reason and avoid the MTO showing up at ALL cost. I'd rather not be on their radar thank you very much

Thanks Neil. Definitely something to think about. Maybe I'll stop by there after work.

I definitely don't think it's the sellers problem. He swears he never noticed the brake problem. Maybe he mainly uses the rear brakes?

I'm usually quite diligent about testing riding bikes before purchase (though most people don't allow it. For those occasions I try and work something out where I can bring the bike back immediately if something is wrong) but in this situation I had written off my bike a week prior (thru no fault of mine) and didn't think it would be responsible of me to test ride someone elses bike with a bad shoulder, and a bad ankle. lol

I looked over the bike with a fine tooth comb and the seller was riding it regularly...and I also personally saw him riding it on the street.
Add the Safety to all that and I thought I was making a good choice.

Bummer. Oh well. Time to find rotors.

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