Dresden
Well-known member
Taken from the R1 forums:
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New R1 for 2015
- Thread starter CafeRay
- Start date
This will be an excellent rival to the S1000RR, so sexy too. they made it look like a track bike with the recessed headlight. Projects are getting common in bikes now so they are nothing new.
Can anyone think of what does R1M/R1 have over S1000RR, or vice versa?
Electronic suspension
Electronic steering damper
LED headlight, projector
TFT LCD display
Can anyone think of what does R1M/R1 have over S1000RR, or vice versa?
Electronic suspension
Electronic steering damper
LED headlight, projector
TFT LCD display
Shaman
Well-known member
There are now multiple bikes in the 200hp+ range.
R1
RSV4
S1000RR
F4RR
1299S
ZX10R
Of course, you have to de-restrict the ZX10R in the North American market (and I'll guess the R1 too).
I know Aprilia believes in their new bike enough to enter two into AMA Superstock this year. I wonder if Yamaha will, or just let Graves do the job.
R1
RSV4
S1000RR
F4RR
1299S
ZX10R
Of course, you have to de-restrict the ZX10R in the North American market (and I'll guess the R1 too).
I know Aprilia believes in their new bike enough to enter two into AMA Superstock this year. I wonder if Yamaha will, or just let Graves do the job.
Boots
Well-known member
Don't mean to bring up a relatively old thread, but I stumbled on this video and thought it was pretty cool.
[video=youtube;2NGvKJBjVZ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGvKJBjVZ8[/video]
Does the bike have VVT or something (I haven't done my research on it) because it sounds like VVT kicking in at around 11k
Regardless this track thingy is pretty nifty. And the bike itself is pretty cool. The exhaust note is a little weird for some reason, sounds...hollow... but maybe thats just me.
[video=youtube;2NGvKJBjVZ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGvKJBjVZ8[/video]
Does the bike have VVT or something (I haven't done my research on it) because it sounds like VVT kicking in at around 11k
Regardless this track thingy is pretty nifty. And the bike itself is pretty cool. The exhaust note is a little weird for some reason, sounds...hollow... but maybe thats just me.
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Dresden
Well-known member
Boots
Well-known member
That's interesting lol, I just edited my post right before you posted this we seem to be on opposite sides of the spectrum.
I bet it would sound great with a new exhaust system though. Would love to hear how a Toce would sound on this thing.
Oh and I bet it would be the coolest looking exhaust too! Somthing like this....
I think I threw up in my mouth a little.
The sound being off is probably just from how it was recorded. I heard a clip from the graves guys and it sounded similar to the old bike.
Dresden
Well-known member
Maybe it's because I have headphones in and the Bass turned up, but it sounds like it's got some grunt in it!
No VVT, but it has intake runners with two positions for the outer runners so that there are two possible intake runner lengths. The previous one had that, too. I don't know what RPM it switches over at.
Boots
Well-known member
Oh yeah I forgot they ditched the under seat exhaust. Wonder if there are companies willing to route the piping to an undertail style.Oh and I bet it would be the coolest looking exhaust too! Somthing like this....
I think I threw up in my mouth a little.
The sound being off is probably just from how it was recorded. I heard a clip from the graves guys and it sounded similar to the old bike.
Dresden
Well-known member
I'm sure someone (company) will do it - however from reading owner-reviews, the Undertail exhaust was a PITA. Literally, light that ***** on fire.
Oh and I bet it would be the coolest looking exhaust too! Somthing like this....
I think I threw up in my mouth a little.
The sound being off is probably just from how it was recorded. I heard a clip from the graves guys and it sounded similar to the old bike.
same here. I don't know what people like about those pipes. Sound like garbage.
Shaman
Well-known member
I think it'll be a good bike overall, but I am not fussed on its looks. And the hype around it has become ridiculous.
Every current bike with an electronics control package has "slide control" built in. They all take into account bike lean, tire slip, throttle position, wheelspeed differential, yaw, rate of crank sensor change (acceleration/rpm), gear position, clutch position and projected torque output - and possibly other things. Aprilia, for example, has a number of patents on its TC system. SCS in the Yamaha is the only thing it seems to bring to the table, and what is it? Essentially a TC override, so that if the tire does spin while the bike is still leaned, it will allow a certain amount of slip MORE than the TC setting would indicate, once the tire is actually spinning. Well, that's .............. possibly valuable, but doesn't it seem more understandable that you set the TC so that you can spin where and when you want it, and have the algorithm figure it out based on TC setting? Anyone racing is going to want it set to the lowest setting, or turned off - 5+ years with these setups proves that. Being able to automate electronics settings corner-by-corner is something Yamaha, Aprilia and MV are doing now off the dealership floor (well, MV says they will), so they're not ahead of all the other manufacturers there, either. Up until this year, Aprilia's APX2 offered all that and much more (for a price!) and has built the rudiments into their consumer offering. I believe BMW also had a racing DCS available.
The R1M has the automated damping ... whether racing teams will find this a help or a hindrance is yet to be determined. The new S1000RR has it as an option, just like the HP4. Is the R1's better? Maybe. But BMW racers have just pulled the HP4 suspension off it anyways.
Yamaha's already backpedalled on their power claims, new power claims are 197hp for Euro markets and 187hp for North American markets, so there's also that.
I dunno. I think this will be a great bike. A class leader? A new benchmark? I just ... don't see it. The hype says YES YES OMG YES, experience says no. Anyone remember when the crossplane first came out and they shouted "R1!" from mountaintop to mountaintop, then a year later they weren't even putting it in group tests anymore because it was so poo? I rode a demo bike before they were even at the dealerships and declared that I didn't want one. Cripes, it was smoking hot to ride even in May, it felt heavy, it wasn't nearly as pretty as the 2008, and the throttle response was all over the map, even if you left the mode button alone. I rode home from the demo on my GSX-R 750 and was a lot happier with it, which is not at all what Yamaha wanted me to think, I expect...
Imagine my surprise when journalists were raving about it.
I have more faith in the 2015 bike, though I haven't ridden it. I think Yamaha has a real contender here. But that's all it is, to my mind. I and lots of other people have watched what has been said about it and given a big shrug, followed by a baffled expression. What's the big deal? This bike would have been par for the course in 2011, except for the nice data collection system. But Aprilia had that available for the Caponord, two years ago. Now it's in the new V4 bikes, too. BMW missed the boat this year on that front, but it has released a lighter, faster, more agile S1000RR based on the HP4 as well, and apparently it's a big improvement. The ZX10R is the bargain race bike. The new Panigale is the torque monster and looker of the bunch, and it apparently is much more refined to ride than the 1199.
So what is Yamaha bringing to the table that I'm missing?
Every current bike with an electronics control package has "slide control" built in. They all take into account bike lean, tire slip, throttle position, wheelspeed differential, yaw, rate of crank sensor change (acceleration/rpm), gear position, clutch position and projected torque output - and possibly other things. Aprilia, for example, has a number of patents on its TC system. SCS in the Yamaha is the only thing it seems to bring to the table, and what is it? Essentially a TC override, so that if the tire does spin while the bike is still leaned, it will allow a certain amount of slip MORE than the TC setting would indicate, once the tire is actually spinning. Well, that's .............. possibly valuable, but doesn't it seem more understandable that you set the TC so that you can spin where and when you want it, and have the algorithm figure it out based on TC setting? Anyone racing is going to want it set to the lowest setting, or turned off - 5+ years with these setups proves that. Being able to automate electronics settings corner-by-corner is something Yamaha, Aprilia and MV are doing now off the dealership floor (well, MV says they will), so they're not ahead of all the other manufacturers there, either. Up until this year, Aprilia's APX2 offered all that and much more (for a price!) and has built the rudiments into their consumer offering. I believe BMW also had a racing DCS available.
The R1M has the automated damping ... whether racing teams will find this a help or a hindrance is yet to be determined. The new S1000RR has it as an option, just like the HP4. Is the R1's better? Maybe. But BMW racers have just pulled the HP4 suspension off it anyways.
Yamaha's already backpedalled on their power claims, new power claims are 197hp for Euro markets and 187hp for North American markets, so there's also that.
I dunno. I think this will be a great bike. A class leader? A new benchmark? I just ... don't see it. The hype says YES YES OMG YES, experience says no. Anyone remember when the crossplane first came out and they shouted "R1!" from mountaintop to mountaintop, then a year later they weren't even putting it in group tests anymore because it was so poo? I rode a demo bike before they were even at the dealerships and declared that I didn't want one. Cripes, it was smoking hot to ride even in May, it felt heavy, it wasn't nearly as pretty as the 2008, and the throttle response was all over the map, even if you left the mode button alone. I rode home from the demo on my GSX-R 750 and was a lot happier with it, which is not at all what Yamaha wanted me to think, I expect...
Imagine my surprise when journalists were raving about it. I have more faith in the 2015 bike, though I haven't ridden it. I think Yamaha has a real contender here. But that's all it is, to my mind. I and lots of other people have watched what has been said about it and given a big shrug, followed by a baffled expression. What's the big deal? This bike would have been par for the course in 2011, except for the nice data collection system. But Aprilia had that available for the Caponord, two years ago. Now it's in the new V4 bikes, too. BMW missed the boat this year on that front, but it has released a lighter, faster, more agile S1000RR based on the HP4 as well, and apparently it's a big improvement. The ZX10R is the bargain race bike. The new Panigale is the torque monster and looker of the bunch, and it apparently is much more refined to ride than the 1199.
So what is Yamaha bringing to the table that I'm missing?
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Since you asked .... It's Yamaha ... Every brand comes with certain level of pedigree, you know that. R1 is everywhere now, because all the magazines were flown to a nice place to write about it. You cannot open a magazine without R1 .... Predictable.
The spec sheet .... Not sure it matters much to street riders, but I am sure close to stock racing will pay attention.
Sleep well, your bike is still the one to beat .... LOL
The spec sheet .... Not sure it matters much to street riders, but I am sure close to stock racing will pay attention.
Sleep well, your bike is still the one to beat .... LOL
^ Every time there's a new bike, there is a ton of hype about it, then the production version shows up, reality sets in, and generally it's a marginal improvement over what's there (and it's arguable that the crossplane R1 was a step backwards but with the sound as a selling point, for those who like it).
The outgoing crossplane R1 was restricted from the factory. De-restricting (by reflashing the ECU) woke them up quite a bit. 'Course, when those bikes came out, only race tuners had access to this (and frequently only by buying the race-kit ECU). It's really only the last couple of years that it has become accessible to everyone.
I'm not a fan of electronic suspension control as we see it now. When I set up my bike, geometry and spring rates come first, the "clickers" are the last thing to touch, and all these electronic suspensions are just tinkering with the clickers and won't help the geometry nor the spring rates. Wake me up when something like GM Magneride shows up. Even that can only affect damping, not spring rates and ride height.
I've never ridden anything with traction control. My race bike has the old skool traction control ... nothing bad happens when you twist the throttle. (60 hp)
The manufacturers seem to have a roadblock at 200 PS (197 hp) ... Even the H2, which ought to have all-conquering horsepower if uncorked, is known to have multiple redundant methods of enforcing the 299 km/h top speed limit: beyond 10,000 rpm it starts shutting the throttle (even if rider is asking for 100%) so by 13,000 rpm it's only giving you 32% throttle, it has a soft limiter at 299 km/h based on the wheel speed sensors, if it is not getting a good wheel speed sensor then it cuts the rev limit to 12,500 rpm, and if all else fails, it's gearing-limited to hit the hard rev limit just beyond 299 km/h ... Fortunately, a reflash can change ALL of this ...
The outgoing crossplane R1 was restricted from the factory. De-restricting (by reflashing the ECU) woke them up quite a bit. 'Course, when those bikes came out, only race tuners had access to this (and frequently only by buying the race-kit ECU). It's really only the last couple of years that it has become accessible to everyone.
I'm not a fan of electronic suspension control as we see it now. When I set up my bike, geometry and spring rates come first, the "clickers" are the last thing to touch, and all these electronic suspensions are just tinkering with the clickers and won't help the geometry nor the spring rates. Wake me up when something like GM Magneride shows up. Even that can only affect damping, not spring rates and ride height.
I've never ridden anything with traction control. My race bike has the old skool traction control ... nothing bad happens when you twist the throttle. (60 hp)
The manufacturers seem to have a roadblock at 200 PS (197 hp) ... Even the H2, which ought to have all-conquering horsepower if uncorked, is known to have multiple redundant methods of enforcing the 299 km/h top speed limit: beyond 10,000 rpm it starts shutting the throttle (even if rider is asking for 100%) so by 13,000 rpm it's only giving you 32% throttle, it has a soft limiter at 299 km/h based on the wheel speed sensors, if it is not getting a good wheel speed sensor then it cuts the rev limit to 12,500 rpm, and if all else fails, it's gearing-limited to hit the hard rev limit just beyond 299 km/h ... Fortunately, a reflash can change ALL of this ...
I agree that the R1 looks better in person than in the pics. When I saw the pics, I thought "Gixxer" with a funny-looking front end. It looks good when seen for real. And, for the first time ever, this is an R1 that does not look and feel bulky and wide up front.
Shaman
Well-known member
Hell, my bike is now a lost generation. The new one is up 21hp on mine and has a host of new features. Waiting on a test to see how it does but it doesn't much matter to me, I bought mine as a long-term bike and won't be upgrading (he says, so sure of himself).
Maybe I'm not clear enough, though... I'm saying that the hype says this bike is a big step up from any other bike on the market. And I just can't see it, anywhere. It's not more powerful, it's not lighter, it's not cheaper, and if it's any more sophisticated at all, that sophistication both very marginal and late to the party. Will it handle better than anyone else's bike? I duno, it's a long, long way until they get all the bikes together around... say... August?
Maybe I'm not clear enough, though... I'm saying that the hype says this bike is a big step up from any other bike on the market. And I just can't see it, anywhere. It's not more powerful, it's not lighter, it's not cheaper, and if it's any more sophisticated at all, that sophistication both very marginal and late to the party. Will it handle better than anyone else's bike? I duno, it's a long, long way until they get all the bikes together around... say... August?
Bit of a hyped review but not as bad as MCN's (which I've grown to hate them for):
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/269/22072/Motorcycle-Article/2015-Yamaha-YZF-R1---R1M-First-Ride.aspx
Neither review though sound like it is making S1000RR type power. Still looks horrid to the eye any way I look at it. My prediction is it's going to be a near-the-top track bike but it's not going to be a great street bike.
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/269/22072/Motorcycle-Article/2015-Yamaha-YZF-R1---R1M-First-Ride.aspx
Neither review though sound like it is making S1000RR type power. Still looks horrid to the eye any way I look at it. My prediction is it's going to be a near-the-top track bike but it's not going to be a great street bike.
It was built with the track in mind first and street second.
Every review so far is excellent, and the electronics are supposedly amazing
If everything seems under control, your not riding fast enough
Every review so far is excellent, and the electronics are supposedly amazing
If everything seems under control, your not riding fast enough
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