Interim councillor calling for 'O Canada' change | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Interim councillor calling for 'O Canada' change

Snobike Mike said:
Good thing they updated it then to reflect the 75% who don't dismiss the existence of God..... ;)

You wouldn't happen to be a member of the Canadian Secular Alliance would you?
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So i guess 1 in 4 Canadians are not Canadians or just dont count?

You wouldnt happen to me a member of ISIS would you?

Because they have a very stong believe in god. Much better than the mere 75% Canadians. They have a full 100% ;)


Also, it's time forn another update since secularism is on the rise and people are turning away from religion in Canada. Just a matter of time now ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...y-popular-for-canadians-report_n_3283268.html
 
ashkan said:
So i guess 1 in 4 Canadians are not Canadians or just dont count?
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That's of course not what I said, nice try. Back to you, you would like to eliminate God from the anthem to please 25% but of course at the same time you displease 75%, using your logic, I'm assuming you believe 75% of the population either aren't Canadians or just don't count???

ashkan said:
You wouldnt happen to me a member of ISIS would you?
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Nope, but don't deflect. Are you a member of the Secular Canadian Alliance?




Also, it's time forn another update since secularism is on the rise and people are turning away from religion in Canada. Just a matter of time now ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...y-popular-for-canadians-report_n_3283268.html[/QUOTE]
 
Snobike Mike said:
That's of course not what I said, nice try. Back to you, you would like to eliminate God from the anthem to please 25% but of course at the same time you displease 75%, using your logic, I'm assuming you believe 75% of the population either aren't Canadians or just don't count???



Nope, but don't deflect. Are you a member of the Secular Canadian Alliance?




Also, it's time forn another update since secularism is on the rise and people are turning away from religion in Canada. Just a matter of time now ;)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...y-popular-for-canadians-report_n_3283268.html
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[/QUOTE]

I dont think you get the point. No one said lets remove god and put science in there. By removing the word god, you are including all Canadians. By having the world god, you are representing 75% and not all.
Should be a simple thing to understand.
Again, no one said exclude the religious but if youre going to put words in there that are represeting different groups of a diverse society, put words that represent everyone. And of course since its impossible, just remove exclusionary words and make a general anthem for 100% of Canadians not just 75%.

And no im not a part of that organization but i am pro-secularism and seperating state and church completely.
 
Snobike Mike said:
Worldwide, Ebola is on the rise as well, just a matter of time.....
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Really? Thats your argument? lol ok

And speaking of things that kill, religious wars have killed more innocent in history than all modern wars combined. In fact, crusades alone did that. now lets add Muslims who killed millions to spread Islam to the equation and then i can see a paralel between Ebola and this argument.
 

I dont think you get the point. No one said lets remove god and put science in there. By removing the word god, you are including all Canadians. .[/QUOTE]

Oh, I get the point and I'm against your point.
 
Snobike Mike said:
I dont think you get the point. No one said lets remove god and put science in there. By removing the word god, you are including all Canadians. .
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Oh, I get the point and I'm against your point.[/QUOTE]

That's fine. Im not surprised. I like to represent all Canadians, you like to give religious people a preferential treatment. very characteristic of religious people who think of themselves more important/better/more deserving than the rest ;)
 
ashkan said:
Really? Thats your argument? lol ok
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You've totally missed the implication I was making. I'll leave it with you for a bit to see if you can figure it out.

ashkan said:
And speaking of things that kill, religious wars have killed more innocent in history than all modern wars combined. In fact, crusades alone did that. now lets add Muslims who killed millions to spread Islam to the equation and then i can see a paralel between Ebola and this argument.
Click to expand...

I'm against Muslim Jihadists.

I'm not yet going to give away what I meant by my Ebola comment. Hint however, what did I quote of yours when I made my comment ;)
 
ashkan said:
That's fine. Im not surprised. I like to represent all Canadians, you like to give religious people a preferential treatment. very characteristic of religious people who think of themselves more important/better/more deserving than the rest ;)
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But of course your position doesn't represent all Canadians.........by your own numbers it excludes 75% of them.
 
Snobike Mike said:
But of course your position doesn't represent all Canadians.........by your own numbers it excludes 75% of them.
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Really? You really dont get it do you? If you remove god, and say for example 'we' keep our land, glorious and free, it includes all of us. 'we' as in all Canadians. But when you say 'god' then youre excluding 25% of us. It really isnt that complicated to understand my friend.
 
ashkan said:
The original version had no mention of god or any religious references.
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Do I have to spoon feed you?

Please think about this sentence you wrote, for at least ten minutes, then get back to us.

I could tell you that God exists, but if you don't actually think about it,
until you feel it in your bones, then it's for naught.

The he same thing here you keep repeating the same untruth, hoping that it's true,
but you haven't thought it through enough, so there is no Hope.
 
Baggsy said:
I could tell you that God exists, but if you don't actually think about it,
until you feel it in your bones, then it's for naught.
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Pretty dismissive to think that he hasn't thought about his position. Now I don't know Ashkan so i can't say if he has a valid reasoning on his position on God or not but I would hazard he is less interested in what you can tell him and more on what you can show him.
 
Baggsy said:
Do I have to spoon feed you?

Is this turning in to a discussion of religion or are you trying to convert me? I'm not discussing the existence of god of some metaphysical being. This is not a threat about philosophy. You can believe in god and i dont and its all fine. I'm not questioning your belief.
Im simply saying that in a national anthem that is supposed to include an eniter nation, to put words and symbols that only 75% can relate to while 25% cant, its wrong. It's really simple.

And it is very relevant when i say that originally, the word god was not in there. If you can't see the relevance so clearly, i dont know how esle to explain it.

Bottom line is this, only 25% (30% according to wikipedia but i wont use it since its wiki) do NOT believe in god. They are every bit as much Canadian and they contribute to this nation like everyone else. For them to have to stand for their national anthem that excludes them by very obviously ignoring their stand on religion is wrong. I would say the same thing if the anthem ignored religious people. The difference is, when religious people are in the position of power, they dont seem to care about the rights of anyone else as Snobike Mike clearly admitted.
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Two50noob said:
Pretty dismissive to think that he hasn't thought about his position. Now I don't know Ashkan so i can't say if he has a valid reasoning on his position on God or not but I would hazard he is less interested in what you can tell him and more on what you can show him.
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Thanks Two50noob for clearing that up.

This is not a philosophical/spiritual discussion on whether god exists or doesnt' I dont know how he turned it into it. This is simply a question of including all Canadians in a national anthem that should include and represent all Canadians.
 
ashkan said:
I dont think you get the point. No one said lets remove god and put science in there. By removing the word god, you are including all Canadians. By having the world god, you are representing 75% and not all.
Should be a simple thing to understand.
Again, no one said exclude the religious but if youre going to put words in there that are represeting different groups of a diverse society, put words that represent everyone. And of course since its impossible, just remove exclusionary words and make a general anthem for 100% of Canadians not just 75%.

And no im not a part of that organization but i am pro-secularism and seperating state and church completely.
Click to expand...

Whoooooa, aren't you inconsiderate. I am a pacifist. I dont want to "keep our land glorious and free". I much rather have "god" do it.

Come to think of it, calling our land glorious is inconsiderate. To some glory can be related to agression. I would prefer "god keep our land tolerant and obedient". Or even better "God keep this shared land tolerant and obedient".

Do I have a bright future in politics?
 
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ashkan said:
You just proved my point. There are many things that while a part of a nation's history are also horrible acts done by them in the past. Just because something is a part of our history (in this case god) doesn't mean we have to praise it and constantly drag it along with us. Learn from the mistakes in the past and correct them in the future.

Also, speaking of keeping up with tradition, god was never a part of our anthem until it was added later.
"“O Canada”, originally written by Robert Stanley Weir in 1908, were altered many times before being enshrined in the National Anthem Act of 1980 [3]. In fact, the original version of “O Canada” contained no mention of God – Weir’s verse, “O Canada, glorious and free”, was later altered to “God keep our land glorious and free” [3,4]. Thus, the reference to God itself is the product of an amendment to the original lyrics. Returning to Weir’s original words would allow us to simultaneously update the anthem to better reflect modern Canada’s diversity of beliefs, and honour an older, secular Canadian heritage.
"

So even if you wanna keep up with the past and history and heritage, lets go back to before it was altered to include god.
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I proved no point of yours.. You think i did only because you only see things from your own point of view and how it affects your beliefs and your thoughts.

You are a true hypocrite, you complain about various religious groups trying to enforce their beliefs into society. All the while you support change to the countries national anthem because it agrees with your disbelief


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
daught said:
Whoooooa, aren't you inconsiderate. I am a pacifist. I dont want to "keep our land glorious and free". I much rather have "god" do it.

Come to think of it, calling our land glorious is inconsiderate. To some glory can be related to agression. I would prefer "god keep our land tolerant and obedient". Or even better "God keep this shared land tolerant and obedient".

Do I have a bright future in politics?
Click to expand...

This too


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
ashkan said:
Baggsy said:
Do I have to spoon feed you?

Is this turning in to a discussion of religion or are you trying to convert me? I'm not discussing the existence of god of some metaphysical being. This is not a threat about philosophy. You can believe in god and i dont and its all fine. I'm not questioning your belief.
Im simply saying that in a national anthem that is supposed to include an eniter nation, to put words and symbols that only 75% can relate to while 25% cant, its wrong. It's really simple.

And it is very relevant when i say that originally, the word god was not in there. If you can't see the relevance so clearly, i dont know how esle to explain it.

Bottom line is this, only 25% (30% according to wikipedia but i wont use it since its wiki) do NOT believe in god. They are every bit as much Canadian and they contribute to this nation like everyone else. For them to have to stand for their national anthem that excludes them by very obviously ignoring their stand on religion is wrong. I would say the same thing if the anthem ignored religious people. The difference is, when religious people are in the position of power, they dont seem to care about the rights of anyone else as Snobike Mike clearly admitted.
Click to expand...

ashkan said:
Thanks Two50noob for clearing that up.

This is not a philosophical/spiritual discussion on whether god exists or doesnt' I dont know how he turned it into it. This is simply a question of including all Canadians in a national anthem that should include and represent all Canadians.
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That's very dismissive of you.
You quote a passage that disproves your point, and then reiterate, the disproven point as truth.
Saying something false over and over will not make it any truer.

The official anthem was not the original. The 1908 became the most popular, but was by no means the first.
The version adopted was the 1927 diamond jubilee version according to Macleans.
http://www.macleans.ca/society/life/3-versions-of-o-canada-that-almost-became-our-national-anthem/

As far as God existing, I'm not trying to convert anyone,
I'd just like them to think long and hard on the subject,
rather than dismissing it out of hand with a curt statement of opinion,
the way this subject has been.

Anxiously, awaiting you apology.
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