Motorcycle Parking Fee 2015 – Response Coordination Thread | Page 5 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Motorcycle Parking Fee 2015 – Response Coordination Thread

clutch said:
I live in the downtown core and plan on canvassing those who may not even be aware of this issue and may not visit GTAM. We'll need a standard information flyer to hand out. I've made a rough draft here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Rx6kNvosQATOMCz3wF3csUEizsPtND2dke8yPaQJQ6E/edit?usp=sharing

Anything I should add or remove? Let's use this form if anyone else plans on canvassing.
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Clutch, thanks for taking the initiative. The only things I would add are:

After, Get involved:

- follow the thread here ____, we will let you know when this goes to Committee and Council
- show up at Committee, the more the better
- write or e-mail your City Councilor to let them know how you feel
 
Check out the May issue of Canadian Biker Magazine. Nancy Irwin was at the Motorcycle show meeting and has written an article in this issue. The Publisher has also picked up on her article in his intro column.
 
When do we expect to hear about the agenda for the May 13 meeting? Will it be tomorrow - Thursday May 7 - which is five business days before the 13th? Or will it be Monday morning? What have previous meetings shown for this timing?
 
MarkR said:
When do we expect to hear about the agenda for the May 13 meeting? Will it be tomorrow - Thursday May 7 - which is five business days before the 13th? Or will it be Monday morning? What have previous meetings shown for this timing?
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Hopefully Face can update us soon. Hes good like that.
 
MarkR said:
When do we expect to hear about the agenda for the May 13 meeting? Will it be tomorrow - Thursday May 7 - which is five business days before the 13th? Or will it be Monday morning? What have previous meetings shown for this timing?
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The agenda is up now, but there's only 1 item on it. The Gardiner East tear down study. I figure they expect that will take the whole meeting, but I'll double check the agenda again tomorrow & Monday.
 
Face said:
The agenda is up now, but there's only 1 item on it. The Gardiner East tear down study. I figure they expect that will take the whole meeting, but I'll double check the agenda again tomorrow & Monday.
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Thanks. Is this considered a preliminary agenda, or can they still add items if they want to?
 
Face said:
The agenda is up now, but there's only 1 item on it. The Gardiner East tear down study. I figure they expect that will take the whole meeting, but I'll double check the agenda again tomorrow & Monday.
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yeah, thats got all the media attention.
 
MarkR said:
Thanks. Is this considered a preliminary agenda, or can they still add items if they want to?
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Generally the agenda is complete when posted, but its not unheard of to have an added last minute item. That usually happens with something political, or last minute negotiations cause a change in a report. I doubt that would happen with the motorcycle parking issue since they are doing a good job of keeping it below the radar until its too late.
 
Mark Richardson is doing an article on this for the Toronto Star Wheels Section. it could be in as early as this Saturday. From discussions, it seems that the following may be happening:

- The City seems to be leaning to charging bikes at 25% the rate of cars, not 25% or 50% as per the 2013 staff report;
- Pay-by-Plate may only come to app users. It looks like the machines on the streets will remain Pay-&-Display, even when individual machines need to be replaced. To many $$$s to switch the whole City over;
- They are looking to make the app as accessible as possible, even by text for those still working with flip-phone technology (not sure how that will work);
- The app would limit your additional payments to the max time allowed, i.e. 3 hours as per most signs;
- Pay-by-plate machines will most likely be installed next to the 300 dedicated M/C spaces;
- The trial of the dedicated spaces isn't going well. Looks like drivers have figured out that the dedicated spaces aren't being enforced;
- This may happen in the Fall, but we still need to keep watching the agenda.

Again, this is all hearsay now. Hopefully Mark's article will give more details, but again we won't know anything for sure until the staff report actually comes out.

Some thoughts on this direction:

- The decision about whether M/Cs should be charged or not doesn't seem to be a consideration, even though Council removed the direction to do this back in 2013. They are just trying to figure out how to do it and make more than they spend;
- 25% is fair, if we are going to be charged;
- If we want to get this rate, we need to sign up for an account with the City. See my review of the fine print at post 47 of this thread http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...ation-Thread&p=2275994&viewfull=1#post2275994
- For those who don't have this account, including visitors to the City, the old stolen ticket problems from before 2005 will be back (I'm assuming without the app, you will pay full rate and have to display a ticket)
- Day long commuter riders are going to get screwed the most by the 3 hour limit. This is worse for bikes as some underground garages don't allow bikes, and ones that do may charge 100% the rate of cars.

It would be most helpful if someone who works downtown could survey the parking garages to see which ones don't allow bikes, which ones do, and how much they charge. Unfortunately I don't work downtown. This would be really helpful info to have when it comes time to make deputations before Committee.
 
I appreciate you giving us this information. All I can say at this point, is this SUX, but at least it looks like we have a little more time.

However on a more intelligible note: as I understand it, if the policy which exempts motorcycles from having to use The pay and display machines isn't repealed, then that directive will still apply to us, unless it is, regardless of what they install.

Also, as not everyone has a mobile phone, and they are not necessarily accessible to everyone, I think there are grounds to cite an accessibility issue here, if MC owners will be subject to the "car rate" if they do not have a cell phone. That doesn't constitute equitable access. It won't fly, I believe that it is a general practice (if not a policy) all residents must have the same access to services, regardless of the technology they carry.

Ultimately, it will be the commuter motorcyclists who will suffer unfortunately, if this does end up going through. I know there are a ton of motorcycles parked outside of the Toronto police headquarters near college and Carlton Street. I wonder how many of those staffers or police officers who commute to work on their bikes know about these proposed changes... The people at police headquarters are among the first to start using their bikes I notice every year. Perhaps we can leverage their support.
 
There is currently a 2005 By-law which exempts motorcycles from being charged for on-street parking. http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/bylaws/2005/law0928.pdf This by-law will have to be repealed, amended, or replaced with a current by-law that introduces the charging method. That will happen when they bring this forward to Committee, and that will be our only formal opportunity to convince Council to not approve the staff recommendations.

I have spoken with a lawyer (who rides) about this, and equity is a tough argument. Legally, the rule is one vehicle = one fee. Like you keep telling your GF, size doesn't matter. The 2005 by-law was a free parking bonus to encourage riding as an alternative to the car, and to solve an enforcement problem with lost or stolen display tags. They're now proposing to change it to a 25%-of-full-price bonus, but only if you have the app. They seem to have forgotten about the enforcement problem, or don't think it will be much of a problem if regular riders get the app. Theoretically drivers could have been arguing discrimination for the last 10 years. Take it one step further and any incentive program like diamond lanes could also be deemed discrimination.

Yes it sux, and yes it is not well thought out, and yes we can argue that staff haven't addressed the original reasons for giving free parking in the first place and don't even have the mandate to bring this forward, but the reality is it is coming forward and we have to use all these arguments to try to fight it. Part of the problem is the amount of access to your personal info you give to the City in order to get the app. But then again, people willingly give the US government access to their personal info including finger prints & a retinal scan just to avoid a line at the border (Nexus Card), so this is "small brother" in comparison.
 
Face said:
Mark Richardson is doing an article on this for the Toronto Star Wheels Section. it could be in as early as this Saturday. From discussions, it seems that the following may be happening:

- The City seems to be leaning to charging bikes at 25% the rate of cars, not 25% or 50% as per the 2013 staff report;
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Bit confused, was the first "25%" a typo?


- They are looking to make the app as accessible as possible, even by text for those still working with flip-phone technology (not sure how that will work);
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this is easy. We had that in New Zealand about 15 years ago. You txt msg your parking bay number to a central number. For Toronto, you would probably txt msg your plate to a central number. The Parking guys would then be able to look up your plate on the system over the internet connected device they use.

The trial of the dedicated spaces isn't going well. Looks like drivers have figured out that the dedicated spaces aren't being enforced;
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My understanding is that the cars ARE allowed to park in the dedicated spaces. There are no rules to the effect that they are not allowed to . They can pay and display. Usually the Simcoe street bays are full with bikes, but one or two cars get there early and park there. Often the cars are one with handicap permits, so they are there all day

But then again, people willingly give the US government access to their personal info including finger prints & a retinal scan just to avoid a line at the border (Nexus Card), so this is "small brother" in comparison.
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totally worth it if you have nothing to hide and play by the rules - and travel a lot. If you've ever been through LAX (which often is the case when travelling down under) just being able to be expedited through customs/arrivals after a 15hr flight from AUS/NZ is good enough reason ;-)
Oh, and as if the NSA and CICIS dont have enough goods on people from their Online Social media profiles, cell phone/wifi/Bluetooth roaming/tracking. lol. The digital footprint is out there. ;-) ;-)
 
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Face, is your understanding that that 3hr parking limit will apply to the designated spots also, or only outside of them?
 
But then, what about people without cellphones?

Or people without data (i know you mentioned an option for non-smartphone owners)

Thanks for the outlook from a lawyer's perspective. I'm just thinking the revenue generated by it, vs revenues that will be lost (from moto riders not coming in anymore) vs the cost of implementing pay by plate. I don't see how they are actually going to be looking at a profit ...at least short to mid-term.

I'm lucky that with my building, i currently have a loophole where i will be able to park for free (as it's not on street but not enforced by building management for employees) but still, we might change buildings and might have to resort to street parking.

So display tokens might not be feasible due to their vulnerability (as per the issue solved by by-law in 2005) + you cant determine the size of your vehicle which means you have to resort to specific moto only, pay by plate areas which means only a certain number of motos/scooters can fit in one area, once its full you're SOL and have to walk an extra 10-15m? (Happened to me this morning, just found another area to park) Like how many areas are they going to convert, how well placed are they going to be...etc.
If they want motos to be more "equal" to cars then it should be possible to have that 25%-of-full-price available anywhere otherwise that's discrimination as well :p creating bike ghettos lol
I think there are too many flaws to the enforcement + implementation of that method.
 
They meed to make the bike parking spots bikes only from April - December.
 
kiwi said:
They meed to make the bike parking spots bikes only from April - December.
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ah, so silly me doesnt know the spots. parked on victoria (near king) which has no parking signs errywhere. on lunch, i realized that if id gone just ONE street over, i wouldnt have gotten a ticket :( (damn me for being late and unprepared). but other than online, where can people find a map of all the locations of those designated spots.
 
DDean said:
Face, is your understanding that that 3hr parking limit will apply to the designated spots also, or only outside of them?
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All of this is speculation, so I can't say until we see the actual report. Even then it may not be clear as the last one seemed almost deliberately vague about how they were going to deal with regular spaces outside the 300 designated ones. The only thing I know is that Naz did indicate to me that all-day M/C parking was an issue for them.
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