Ontario Driving Schools - Lip Service

[Gh0sT]

My issue is the vast inconsistencies in theories taught at riding schools. In addition to the bad examples set by many "instructors", who should know better. I've had one instructor tell me I would flunk a road test for doing EXACTLY what another instructor told me to do. I've also had instructors brag to me about "riding to the bar, in high heels and a mini-skirt". Like, WTF? Are you kidding me? Yet everyone else is excepted to practice otherwise? The latter not being as important as the former (as it involves the concept of personal risk). But I think there SERIOUSLY needs to be one governing body applied to the theory taught and graded upon. Just in the interest of fairness.

[TLDeano]

Here

Ouch, not nice...

[Metastable]

In Ontario we have MANY issues...

I can't fault people for thinking that driver training adds little to no value to their driving abilities, it is a well known fact that most bad drivers consider themselves to be above average... (I know I do lol) ...but the bottom line is that the system is failing us.

Having taken basic and advanced driver training, as well as the odd racing course, I can honestly attest to the value of proper instruction from a trained, knowledgable, licensed instructor. Unfortunately, except for the licensed part, this skill-set is almost extinct in this province, as it seems the MTO will certify anyone with a pulse as an instructor...

A few of the biggest issues I see are;

- MTO licenses "instructors" who do no understand the physics or driving, proper driving skills, how to teach, driving etiquette and sometimes even what the turn signal stalk or mirrors are used for.

- MTO examiners (in Toronto anyway) are given a maximum number of people they are allowed to fail per day, which is absolutely ludicris... and explains much of the incompetence we see on the road daily.

- The police only enforce the speed limit, as it's the laziest/easiest thing they an do to meet their "performance objective" (formerly known as quota) Police almost never charge people for failing to signal or check blindspots... I find this absolutely ridiculous, as in my opinion speeding (within reason, as long as you're moving with the speed of traffic, i.e. traffic speed +/- 10/20km/h) causes far less accidents than improper lane changes, tailgating, talking on the phone without handsfree, applying makeup, etc). In short, stop paying lip service to "public safety" while only ticketing the "expensive ticket" infractions.

- People with the "It's all about me" attitude who not only don't believe in common courtesy, they actively go out of their way to be discouteous.
(Granted, sometimes it's deserved ...but that is the execption and not the rule).

- Truck drivers licenses for tractor trailers are granted to people who have never driven a tractor trailer. This is not a mistake, this the way the course is designed... Scary stuff...

The only answers I see are to completely revamp the system.

- New, stringent, testing standards for all drivers, instructors and examiners
- Eliminating the 2 tier society effect of off-duty police, fire and ambulance staff being above traffic laws.
- 5 year re-tests for ALL drivers, not just people over 80
- Police who actually enforce ALL the laws, not just convenient ones
- Higher fines for "professional drivers" who break the law
(Truck drivers, bus drivers, taxi/limo drivers, driving instructors, POLICE when lights and siren are not on, etc. These people should be setting an example, not creating new lows as they are today)
- Updating the demerit point system to reflect what *actually* causes accidents, not just turning every offence known to man into "street-racing" a la Bill 203...

Just my 2 cents...

Man this post and the next couple after it are pretty much bang on. I can't see a 5 year re-test happening, but 15-20 SURE. I think people need to be reminded of the rules of the road, common courtesy, and vehicle control a bit more often.

Plus I would like to add that speed limits should be REASONABLE!!! Make it 120-130 on the highway.... take out the ambiguity of well it's ok to drive X over. Heck make the speed limits changeable. If it's poop weather drop it to 90 or whatever... have digital speed signs on the highways.

Texas now has 80mph (127kph) in some places. In Europe it is usually between 120-130kph. I was in Jersey recently and driving on a 40mph (64kph) road which here would be 50kph. If you're doing much more that, you would deserve a ticket. By doing this you would avoid or REDUCE the left lane hog... errrrrm ignorantitis sufferer .... oh I'm doing 105kph I don't have to move over. What ever happened, to "geeez that dude is going faster so I should let him by" or "I'm done my passing, let's move over to THE RIGHT instead of THE MIDDLE".

And I will end my rant with this:
"WHY THE F#!?K do some people drive as if they don't want to get to where they are going?"

15kph below the speed limit in a 50 ZONE!!!!....or how about.... let's turn at 50mm/h.... hey hold on buddy, let me get out of the car and give you a push... you'll get there... tomorrow. Now most folks are fine, but DAMN!!!! sometimes you get a few that are a hazard to everyone on the road.... like some dim-wit last night on the QEW doing 50kph AT BEST causing a huge clusterfook ... at least they were in the right hand lane.

ahhh - I was just going to say one or two things and a rant showed up.

[TBSS_guy]

Damn good point... I never understood how you can get a license in June and then be allowed to operate a vehicle in a January Blizzard... lol.

VERY valid point... although I'm not sure how the MTO would handle processing all new licenses if they had the same volume in just 1/4 of the year... Interesting idea though.

The bureaucracy created by having retests every 5 years would be unfathomable. We have a heavy enough government as it is. We don't need to add to the public payroll. And before you say that it could be handled with existing staff, answer a question for me. Have you seen how long the lines are NOW? Simply enforcing the existing, non speed related moving violations would do what you want.

I agree that the MTO could NEVER handle this additional workload without adding staff and buraucracy, however, given that most people have absolutely no idea what the official and unofficial rules of the road are, I think everyone needs to go back to school and get re-tested...

For example: People who wonder why everyone is flashing their lights at them when they drive around at night with no lights on, people who refuse to yeild the left lane to faster moving traffic, people who think a single flash of a turn signal constitutes signalling a lane change properly, etc.

I don't like mandatory this-and-that. If you're going to make something mandatory, then what about enforcing a policy of insurance discounts for people who take AND PASS an accredited ADT/ART school? I'm not talking about Jim's Driving Academy and Grill. I mean programmes out of community colleges or ministry parking lots, run at set periods during the year and with expert instructors. These could be self-supporting.

Great idea, I couldn't agree more. Using tiered insurance incentives to get people to take basic and advanced driver training would certainly help the situation.

[eastcoast_gsx]

VERY valid point... although I'm not sure how the MTO would handle processing all new licenses if they had the same volume in just 1/4 of the year... Interesting idea though.

You can still get license all year. Maybe just some kind of "W" indorsement, a very small written test that would challenge winter driving theory and a closed snow course that they could put many people througt very quickly. I know it may add cost to the MTO... but to me it would be worth the cost to ON drivers.

[eastcoast_gsx]

For example: People who wonder why everyone is flashing their lights at them when they drive around at night with no lights on.

This blows my bloody mind... I have flashed, tapped the break lights, given hand signals (all to the same people sometimes) and get nothing. Twice it was two transport trucks, one heading eastbound on the QEW and one heading northbound on the 404.. both in the same night.... One guy gave me the damn finger for christ sakes... lol.

If people are trying to tell you something, wouldn't the first thing you do is take a look around and make sure your s*** is in order?

[Rob MacLennan]

These people...

People who wonder why everyone is flashing their lights at them when they drive around at night with no lights on

... have vacant space for rent in the attic and will never realize what they're doing wrong.

people who refuse to yeild the left lane to faster moving traffic

... know exactly what they're doing, but are more important than the rest of us... at least in their own minds.

people who think a single flash of a turn signal constitutes signalling a lane change properly, etc.

... at least know where to find the turn signals, unlike the ones who randomly swerve all over the lanes without giving any prior notice of a move, or so much as a mirror check.

[WoBblyCaT]

I didn't read the article in the Globe, but like any statistic, there may be factors that weren't accounted for in the study. eg:

• Perhaps more people in the city take driver training. Due to the high density of vehicles and reporting of collisions in the city vs. small towns/country maybe the statistic is skewed.
• You can buy fake driver training certificates to show your insurance company and get a discount
• Maybe Repeat offenders might skew the numbers
• Maybe people who don't take driver training drive much less
• etc. etc.

All I'm saying is take this with a grain of salt.

[eastcoast_gsx]

I didn't read the article in the Globe, but like any statistic, there may be factors that weren't accounted for in the study. eg:

• Perhaps more people in the city take driver training. Due to the high density of vehicles and reporting of collisions in the city vs. small towns/country maybe the statistic is skewed.
• You can buy fake driver training certificates to show your insurance company and get a discount
• Maybe Repeat offenders might skew the numbers
• Maybe people who don't take driver training drive much less
• etc. etc.

All I'm saying is take this with a grain of salt.

Me and Rob have both said the same thing but in different words. But for me it comes down to getting an ins break for the cert vs not getting one, and it has been shown that people really didn't deserve the break, or that we should have gotten one.

Now, if the certified drivers would have been worse off without it, that is debatable, but the fact is that the incentive was not deserved, and the system needs to address this.