Why ..........

[caboose483]

Once again Tim you pick out what you want. Lets see what I said.
The question was why is there little to no interest for RACE and PCSB on GTAM. Second comparison was GTAM to Cherrypicker.
What I suggested was
RACE riders are mostly east and according to the results pages listing hometowns they are.
PCSB is a dead series that few other than those in it care about it.
Cherrypicker is a RACE old gaurd site thats not inviting and is full of rumours and misinformation.
SOAR gets more traffic because people here are in it or know those who are.
Now I added in some commentary but I am pretty sure that whats above was the message. Whats posted is my opinion and if you dont agree thats ok, you rarely do and I still sleep just fine. Whats your take Tim. Why doesnt the biggest Canadian motorcycle online community seem to have interest in RACE and PCSB?

Your presence on this site definitely counts for something. I'll give you that.

Cherrypicker is a weird forum. Almost like the Stonecutters of motorcycle forums, but i don't see how its existence would really effect anyone discussing RACE here. Maybe it'll make people think RACE folk are a bunch of jerks.. who knows? RACE being East/West.. i guess you just see what you want to see too. 20 of the 32 riders in the AM SBK standings are from West of Bowmanville, i quickly browsed through some other classes and they mostly look like a 50/50 split.

Maybe I have unreasonable expectations, Ive never been in your shoes, but I don't know why you chose not to focus on the good parts of SOAR without putting down RACE and PCSB. That type of advertising doesn't work on me.

Maybe im just an argumentative jerk.. maybe..

I haven't seen a RACE thread on here in a long time for that matter. Noone is annoucing the races, what's going on for the weekend, or the gate price for spectators. I went to one amateur day back in spring of 2009 and had a great time.

PCSB isn't dead, although why Parry Sound scheduled the Sports Bike Rally the same weekend as the PCSB DblHeader had me wondering if there needs to be some sort of information exchange at some level. I was forced to miss out on one of my two favourite events of the year.

There have been threads. I've posted some, Rob has posted others.. Usually the only people that post in them are people that are going anyway. Round 2 this year the factory BMW team and Jordan Szoke were there and there was some great racing... Mike Ferreira rode at rounds 5 and 6 this year as well with some support from BMW, him and Frank Trombino put on the best show in Pro Superbike seen in a long time... All that seems to go unnoticed here.

[Rob MacLennan]

That battle between Frank and Mike was damned near as good at the one between Jodi Christie and Jordan Szoke, at Mosport but it happened at a REGIONAL race, of all things.

WebWiz has CAPTCHA support, he should implement it. It's free.

http://www.webwiz.co.uk/webwizcaptcha/

Potential members will leave and not come back, the web is a fickle place. Once again, the approach of "we are the only game in town" is NOT going to work any longer...

It would certainly be a good idea, but I don't know if John has a tech guy these days. A friend of mine was donating his time to the tech side, but he died a couple of years back.

[Rotten_Ronnie]

This was my fourth year watching the PCSB DblHeader, and the Szoke Christie race was certainly a highlight, as was the TTXGP with Mike Barnes. I had my ear glued to the radio and my nose buried in the program.

[Baggsy]

Maybe its because people would rather create an obscure topic labelled Why ........ and complain rather than create a topic labelled RACE or PCSC and start a discussion.

Others when looking through the recent posts will see Why and not necessarily link it to RACE or PCSC.

Then again people might not be interested in RACE or PCSC, but even with the obscure label you did get some responses, so there may be hope for these topics yet.

[kneedragger88]

I am not "selling" SOAR/ Once again the question was why doesnt RACE and PCSB get the same discussion on GTAM as it does on Cherrypicker Bens question not mine. All I am putting out is my opinion as why.
Go back and reread what I posted. I did not say anything bad about RACE other than they may find themselves in real trouble real soon from the east. Also commented that the owner is acting like a jerk. BTW its the same exact words spoken to me this weekend by his own employees.
EVERY thing I said about PCSB is true in my eyes and is the biggest reason nobody other than those that run it gives a crap. Am I wrong?
I dont see how all this is so confusing. The question is posed and I added my comment. Interesting though how even this thread doesnt get any interest.
When I have looked over the year at RACE results on MyLaps it sure looked to me like the lions share of participants (not all) were from the east. When ASM was strong in the past RACE went from 30+ fields to 6-8 bike fields over night. I have said it before if Quebec ever gets their crap together RACE is in real trouble. Just saying, and I guess we will see.
Anyway back to my original post I posted why I thought GTAM doesnt follow the other series and thats just my opinion and who knows maybe I am wrong. Hell CMRC is bigger than all the road race series put together and nobody writes about them either.

[john bickle]

That battle between Frank and Mike was damned near as good at the one between Jodi Christie and Jordan Szoke, at Mosport but it happened at a REGIONAL race, of all things.
.

Those two races were the best races of 2010,,better then Jodi and Jordan,,cause nobody took anybody out.

[Rob MacLennan]

Thoe two races were the best races of 2010,,better then Jodi and Jordan,,cause nobody took anybody out.

I still place the Szoke/Christie race a little higher because Jodi picked his butt up, after the crash, then STILL finished 3rd.

[john bickle]

I still place the Szoke/Christie race a little higher because Jodi picked his butt up, after the crash, then STILL finished 3rd.

Ya , Good for Jodi,,, but he should have won. The real beauty of this sport is to "not" make it a a contact sport.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Racers complain (nobody is better at complaining), they are ignored, racers complain louder, they are still ignored.

Not entirely, you have to wonder if all the talk on CP about AM Superbike at the nationals had any effect on the decision to bring it in. They may not participate, but I would bet dollars to donuts they read it.

[eastcoast_gsx]

Maybe im just an argumentative jerk.. maybe..

Got my vote

[omnivore]

As a SOAR rider, I am happy that I can race so close to home. My work schedule is such that if the track was more than 2-3 hrs from my home I simply couldn't race. It's all geography, time and money.
There's no way racing at Shannonville is plausible for me, so I don't follow much of the RACE series. It's not like you can watch them on TV, now is it? I browse CP for bikes/parts etc, have met and bought things from a number of their mebers, and know a few of the racers. If you read the RACE roster and results page, you will notice a great number of racers that run both SOAR and RACE. I was truly shocked at how many guys I share asphalt with in SOAR also do quite well over in the RACE series.

Is one better than the other? I dunno-never raced over there. I have never been to watch RACE, so I can only speculate. Would I race there? I dunno-there's only one class for me there, and I won't spend weekends at the track to just race one class. I have asked a number of people who campaign both series and they say the racing is tighter and rougher in RACE. But they also say unanimously that SOAR is friendlier and a happier bunch in general. To me , friendly and happy is important, as I am a newb and need all the help I can get. I find it amusing that people say SOAR is more accepting of new riders and is generally more inviting to learning how to race...and they say it like it's a bad thing.....almost like swimming in the kiddie pool or something like that. After the "kiddies" in SOAR (Amzy et al) lapped me in the rookie challenge on the last lap, I realized I had no worries that any of the newbs were holding ME up. If anything I was the newb holding everyone else up. And no one complained that I didn't belong out there. And it's nice not to be treated like a leper even though I don't have (will never have,LOL) a skillset like Amzy, for eg. It makes for a nice environment to learn in that's for sure. It's funny cuz I am definitely one of the slow guys out there, but my lap times would have been amazing if I were running these times a yr ago,LOL. Funny how that works.

The way SOAR is growing and other series seem to be floundering, might speak volumes about the benefits to SOAR's approach. If you only cater the the " Old Guard", sooner or later those guys and gals get too old to race, and if you don't welcome newbs, none will come. No new blood will see the demise of the series sooner or later.
Oh I was also told by a few racers,that it takes more talent to win over there. But I am old, ride an old bike, only have 3 weekend's experience to draw from, and am slow enough that I don't really have to worry about what it takes to win in RACE, or even in SOAR for that matter,LOL. I just race to experience the excitement first hand.

Call me a fanboi if you want, but I am very happy racing, where I am. In a series full of riders and management that treat everyone warmly, help when they can, make a class that I can afford to run old junk in, and allow me to draw from the experience of many riders much more skilled than I. Even my street riding has benefitted since Aug. Maybe GTAM members don't contribute much to RACE discussion becasue they don't have much to talk about. I know I can't hold up my end of a conversation about RACE, cuz I don't race there. I'd be talking out of my ***. Maybe lots of other members are in the same boat as me, and like to discuss what they know. If more GTAM members are also SOAR members, it only makes sense that's what will get discussed.

[Ben G]

Maybe its because people would rather create an obscure topic labelled Why ........ and complain rather than create a topic labelled RACE or PCSC and start a discussion.

Others when looking through the recent posts will see Why and not necessarily link it to RACE or PCSC.

Then again people might not be interested in RACE or PCSC, but even with the obscure label you did get some responses, so there may be hope for these topics yet.

......... or maybe the only knowledge available (like yours) is to be concerned about the "title" and have NO ability to answer the question asked ......... but, it got you involved so really how "obscure" is it ..... anyways, you have nothing to add, how can people not be interested in the 2 largest series in Ontario (here ya go Kenny ......rant on) I had my answer befor I posted the question, I was hoping for someone to step to the plate and have a quality and logical answer ......... one got close, but not yet.

Tim. Why doesnt the biggest Canadian motorcycle online community seem to have interest in RACE and PCSB?

this might be the best question asked so far .......

Hell CMRC is bigger than all the road race series put together and nobody writes about them either.

and the answer is .......... they don't know........
Ken, as I have stated before you are running a great series, its a mom and pop operation and your doing fantastic job ........ lets see where it is in 10 years (with any luck it will be the series in Ontario and maybe Canada) the truth as I believe it ......... you have a couple of thousnad hockey fans who just happen to own bikes, I will bet money more here know the captian of the Maple Leafs name over who is Canadian Motocross or National Road race champion......... no pissing contest (unless we need a pre christmas time waste) you pointed something out, how none of the other series owners or organizers "respond or post" on websites......... they read this ***** every day, but unlike you they generally don't want a "pissing" contest, they see it as a lost cause, a no win situation and I know you will not back down, you will defend what you believe is correct ( ) you are also smart enough to use these threads and arguements as "promotional tools" (its not what they say about you, its that they are saying it)....... the great thing about these web sites and different threads is you are allowed (with in reason .........) any opinion you like, I just don't understand how the two largest racing organizations in Ontario get past over on this countries biggest city, biggest motorcycle web site (as stated, here, in print) ........ and Baggsy, what complaining its just a question ......... [/B]

[BBC]

Not entirely, you have to wonder if all the talk on CP about AM Superbike at the nationals had any effect on the decision to bring it in. They may not participate, but I would bet dollars to donuts they read it.

That's not really good enough in this day & age. If people are expected to spend thousands of dollars, schedule weekends and travel they need information or qualified opinions fast. When I look at sites South of the border I see that Race Directors, magazine publishers & team Managers respond quickly to the statements of Racers and fans. This level of 2-way communication is in line with most of the companies I do business with. Given the fact that last year one of the mentioned series had a misunderstanding about contingency and that it was attributed to unclear communication.

Maybe in the future all of these racing series' can discuss/negotiate an ON/Que corridor series that would have real purse money available. I think that RR is in some ways healthier then ever but all of the cannibalizing going on will likely financially hurt all of them to a certain extent.

[WoBblyCaT]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is RACE more intimidating than SOAR?

[caboose483]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is RACE more intimidating than SOAR?

I wouldn't say that the racing itself is all that more competitive.. it is but not much.. I would say that it is the atmosphere that is more competitive. It's not like it's a bar bashing, win-or-bin free for all or anything.. just more serious.

[reciprocity]

That's not really good enough in this day & age. If people are expected to spend thousands of dollars, schedule weekends and travel they need information or qualified opinions fast. When I look at sites South of the border I see that Race Directors, magazine publishers & team Managers respond quickly to the statements of Racers and fans. This level of 2-way communication is in line with most of the companies I do business with. Given the fact that last year one of the mentioned series had a misunderstanding about contingency and that it was attributed to unclear communication.
.

Just for the Record, Ben has been the team owner/manager/financial support of one of the largest Privateer teams at the National series(in its current form) for many years.

If anyone cared to do a bit of research, you'll quickly find that he's the FIRST person to call call out ANY promoter and tell them what they could be doing differently to make it better for the people that pay their bills.

[eastcoast_gsx]

That's not really good enough in this day & age. If people are expected to spend thousands of dollars, schedule weekends and travel they need information or qualified opinions fast.

I agree, maybe that will be their downfall.... maybe not though, motorcycle racing is like a heroin addiction....

[FriendlyFoe]

this thread certainly is entertaining for me. This will be my first season racing not to mention i just returned to ontario so haven't heard any of what seems to be a bit of bad blood.

If RACE posts the event dates, and runs the events safely what more needs to be talked about? Generally every racign ORG has an official meeting (forget the proper term) before every season to evaluate their current rules, and take care of any other official business so if you needed information about them that seems like it would be the place to go.

I fully intend on racing with both organizations as i want to run both tracks, and as long as i can show up and go racing i dont know how much it really *needs* to be talked about on a forum.

Am i missing something?

[Rob MacLennan]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but why is RACE more intimidating than SOAR?

Purely perception.

[Ben G]

Purely perception.

.......... well, the level of competition at RACE/Shannonville is a step higher (at least) ....... SOAR has a more FUN invironment, the racing is good, the people are very friendly, the organization is run smothly (as is RACE..... most times), but you will not get the front running AM/Novice racers at RACE competing for a win in a Pro class as they do at SOAR ...... the PRO level racers are at a much higher level, it seems that the AM/Novice racers tend at times to do both........... anyways, both series have there place's and this will slowly turn into a "I'm better than you........" rant if we're not carefull, which is not the original intention of the thread........ BUT, I'm learning that there is a large number of uninformed people on "Toronto's BIGGEST......." and the one thing I did notice with my limited time at SOAR this year is the over abundance of the "now generation" types......... the "twitter, Facebook, super text messenger types" the kind that get all of there information from from these devices (no real participation)......... and some of what I'm reading here confirms this fact, no information, no knowledge........ interesting. BG