US is ****** | Page 111 | GTAMotorcycle.com

US is ******

Mad Mike

Well-known member
Is it that warped though? The US has some very serious problems that at the very least need some discussion if not direct action. Ignoring them and perpetuating the status quo will not end well, as we see with the current situation.

I've never lived there, but have travelled the USA fairly well. I distinctly remember my first road trip in the US almost 20 years ago. I was absolutely shocked at the abject poverty throughout every major city I drove though, and then I got lost in the poor part of Philadelphia... I don't get scared easily, but I sure as hell made sure to lock the car doors and not make eye contact. A few years later I was visiting California for the first time, imagine my surprise at what I saw when I set my gps to downtown LA.

As a kid that grew up on Hollywood movies and Baywatch, even one that paid decent attention to the news, I was not ready for the reality of some of USA's problems

On the flip side, the media's intense focus on our differing politics and not our shared humanity is really hurting everyone. I try to remind myself regularly that some of the kindest, most generous, people are the ones that I might not share political views with. Those same people spouting QAnon theories, and saying masks are the first steps to Nazi germany, remove politics from the conversation and they will likely give you the shirt off their back if you asked.
Yes, there is poverty. Ever driven thru downtown Winnipeg, Schumacher ON, or any reservation outside southern Ontario? Canada and the US are hard to compare as the measure is different however is you look at reasonable comparisons, abject poverty levels are similar. The big differences are the us is considerably better off at or above the poverty lines.

my experience in the us is that the community does a lot more for the poor than in Canada, here it’s largely left to govt, not nearly as much church and volunteer corps in the game.
 

Baggsy

Well-known member
Site Supporter
One thing the U.S. and the rest of us needs to work on is a more impartial main stream media. Right now, it pays less to be impartial.

Anyway, I saw this:
 

800over

Well-known member
Yes, there is poverty. Ever driven thru downtown Winnipeg, Schumacher ON, or any reservation outside southern Ontario? Canada and the US are hard to compare as the measure is different however is you look at reasonable comparisons, abject poverty levels are similar. The big differences are the us is considerably better off at or above the poverty lines.

my experience in the us is that the community does a lot more for the poor than in Canada, here it’s largely left to govt, not nearly as much church and volunteer corps in the game.
What do you mean by "considerably better"? And is this your opinion?
 

800over

Well-known member
Why are ya'll still trying to blame geographical political leaders for being hit by a world wide pandemic :unsure:
:/ shouldn't we all be working as a species to fix that problem? wtf good is blaming somebody for being human after the fact,
blame them for not getting on with the tasks at hand to fix things.

Because is is not "after the fact" he is STILL doing nothing. The pandemic is ongoing? Are people still not being infected? Dying? He has encouraged the opening of the economy over the lives of his constituents. He fought against masks and social distancing and still does. Are you saying that how the virus has been handled cannot be quantified? Look at the outcomes of some countries versus others. There are obvious winners and losers. No one is saying that Trump is responsible for covid. He IS responsible for the US response to it. HE STILL is not doing anything.
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Yes, there is poverty. Ever driven thru downtown Winnipeg, Schumacher ON, or any reservation outside southern Ontario? Canada and the US are hard to compare as the measure is different however is you look at reasonable comparisons, abject poverty levels are similar. The big differences are the us is considerably better off at or above the poverty lines.

my experience in the us is that the community does a lot more for the poor than in Canada, here it’s largely left to govt, not nearly as much church and volunteer corps in the game.

Agreed. In redneck USA neighbours don't see helping other neighbours as socialism.

Down there if Johnboy, known to be a hard worker, is down on his luck he gets some neighbourly assistance. If Freddy the freeloader is down on his luck he gets squat.

Unfortunately if your neighbours are poor they don't have a lot to share if you need a $100,000 operation or $1500 for rent every month as you recover.

Up here there is a government formula and a freeloader learns how to tap resources. The advantage of that is that since the freeloader can get legal money from the government he / she doesn't have to resort to crime.

The failure on both sides of the border is in education. Not the three R's education but reality education. Some day the money will run out and you will have to fend for yourself. To do that requires the ability to think. Government socialism destroys the ability to think.
 
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Dirty Frank

Well-known member
Feds and Province I'd say 6/10

municipality I'd give a 9
essential services only and low taxes
6 is low I would rate the corruption index a little south of 9
We should revisit this in 6 or so months I bet that your government satisfaction opinion will be far lower then.
 

jc100

Well-known member
I’ve been shocked a few times this side of the border and the other too. Biggest shock for me in Canada was the first time I saw the couple of blocks in downtown Vancouver that were basically a drug addicts free for all. Biggest (first) shock in the US was the strict delineation of rich vs poor in Boston. On one block you could be looking at the best of the US, MIT or Harvard college...on another, it’s a decaying ******** with obviously mentally ill people roaming around homeless...a lot of them. That hard line between rich and poor seemed more stark in any US City I’ve been to compared to anywhere in Canada. I’m afraid to say I was reminded more of Central American cities where you have barios in between swanky high rises.

In NY state I went to markets that accepted food stamps. Maybe I was naive but that reminded me of WWII history lessons. In San Francisco I saw the line ups for the big missions and they were enormous. Everytime I’ve been to the US I have enjoyed my time there, it’s always been eye opening and interesting people watching. But everytime I get on the plane home to Canada I’m very grateful that we live in the society we do even with the limited safeguards that we have for the most vulnerable in our society.
 

Mad Mike

Well-known member
I’ve been shocked a few times this side of the border and the other too. Biggest shock for me in Canada was the first time I saw the couple of blocks in downtown Vancouver that were basically a drug addicts free for all. Biggest (first) shock in the US was the strict delineation of rich vs poor in Boston. On one block you could be looking at the best of the US, MIT or Harvard college...on another, it’s a decaying ******** with obviously mentally ill people roaming around homeless...a lot of them. That hard line between rich and poor seemed more stark in any US City I’ve been to compared to anywhere in Canada. I’m afraid to say I was reminded more of Central American cities where you have barios in between swanky high rises.

In NY state I went to markets that accepted food stamps. Maybe I was naive but that reminded me of WWII history lessons. In San Francisco I saw the line ups for the big missions and they were enormous. Everytime I’ve been to the US I have enjoyed my time there, it’s always been eye opening and interesting people watching. But everytime I get on the plane home to Canada I’m very grateful that we live in the society we do even with the limited safeguards that we have for the most vulnerable in our society.
I lived in Manhattan Beach CA for a few years, movie stars, rich athletes, and privileged youngsters that inherited a life that most can never dream of. 2km back from the beach was Inglewood, one of the roughest and toughest areas of LA. It's not uncommon for wealthy areas to be 'across the tracks', from the poorest - that's urban life, urban ghettos/barrios in between wealthy areas. .

As a kid, I lived in a very poor part of Toronto, Swansea. Same thing, poor adjacent to rich.

If you have traveled the world's major cities you will see the same things in a lot of places. My guess is you are not well traveled in Canada -- next tile you are in Winnipeg, take a walk thru the North end, in Vancouver Grenville and Davie, or Toronto Jarvis and Gerrard, Ottawa Vanier. If you need more, let me know the next place you are going and I'll give you a walking tour that will open your eyes.
 

crankcall

Well-known member
Site Supporter
not really related, but somewhat since discussion is of poor and working poor. My friend is a speech pathologist and now retired volunteers at a school in Hamiltons north end, its a melting pot and being a pretty low rent area its where a lot of New Canadian go to. 30 different languages spoken in that public school.
But the new Canadians work and move to a better area with better schools, less petty crime, nicer properties, usually in 3-8yrs. Then are the 3-4th generation north enders that learned where the food bank is from thier mom and are third and 4th generation welfare cases.
Yes that's a sweeping generalization and a broad observation, but many pockets of Canada where there is a very poor population, it doesn't have to be that way, its a lifestyle choice.
 

GreyGhost

Well-known member
Site Supporter
No words. :(


EDIT:
It gets worse.

Protesters gathered outside the emergency room at the hospital where the injured deputies were being treated.

“To the protesters blocking the entrance & exit of the HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM yelling “We hope they die” referring to 2 LA Sheriff's ambushed today in #Compton: DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY ENTRIES & EXITS TO THE HOSPITAL,” the sheriff's department tweeted. “People's lives are at stake when ambulances can't get through.”
 

FullMotoJacket

Well-known member
Site Supporter
“To the protesters blocking the entrance & exit of the HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM yelling “We hope they die” referring to 2 LA Sheriff's ambushed today in #Compton: DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY ENTRIES & EXITS TO THE HOSPITAL,” the sheriff's department tweeted. “People's lives are at stake when ambulances can't get through.”

Ram them. They're already at the hospital. They can throw them on gurneys and treat them afterwards.
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I’ve been shocked a few times this side of the border and the other too. Biggest shock for me in Canada was the first time I saw the couple of blocks in downtown Vancouver that were basically a drug addicts free for all. Biggest (first) shock in the US was the strict delineation of rich vs poor in Boston. On one block you could be looking at the best of the US, MIT or Harvard college...on another, it’s a decaying ******** with obviously mentally ill people roaming around homeless...a lot of them. That hard line between rich and poor seemed more stark in any US City I’ve been to compared to anywhere in Canada. I’m afraid to say I was reminded more of Central American cities where you have barios in between swanky high rises.

In NY state I went to markets that accepted food stamps. Maybe I was naive but that reminded me of WWII history lessons. In San Francisco I saw the line ups for the big missions and they were enormous. Everytime I’ve been to the US I have enjoyed my time there, it’s always been eye opening and interesting people watching. But everytime I get on the plane home to Canada I’m very grateful that we live in the society we do even with the limited safeguards that we have for the most vulnerable in our society.
I lived in Manhattan Beach CA for a few years, movie stars, rich athletes, and privileged youngsters that inherited a life that most can never dream of. 2km back from the beach was Inglewood, one of the roughest and toughest areas of LA. It's not uncommon for wealthy areas to be 'across the tracks', from the poorest - that's urban life, urban ghettos/barrios in between wealthy areas. .

As a kid, I lived in a very poor part of Toronto, Swansea. Same thing, poor adjacent to rich.

If you have traveled the world's major cities you will see the same things in a lot of places. My guess is you are not well traveled in Canada -- next tile you are in Winnipeg, take a walk thru the North end, in Vancouver Grenville and Davie, or Toronto Jarvis and Gerrard, Ottawa Vanier. If you need more, let me know the next place you are going and I'll give you a walking tour that will open your eyes.

Swansea isn't poor now.

We took a cross city drive the other day and going through cabbage town the car dealers were MB, BMW. Land Rover, Jag etc. Just down the street from houses that I wouldn't keep dog in.

When our daughter was around 10 YO we took a road trip to Washington DC spending the bulk of the time on the Mall, Smithsonian etc, perfectly safe. She wanted to see the Children's Museum that was a few blocks away and TBH it looked like a token project for the "Other" residents.

I parked on the street and expected the car or its tires to be gone when we came out. It was fine as it stood out so much, being new, that it looked like a bait car.

Crossing Sherbourne on the Danforth, south to the slums or north to Rosedale?

A lot of US cities are checkerboard, safe blocks alternating with not safe. Our boundaries aren't as crisp but they're there.
 

DownUnder

Well-known member
Ram them. They're already at the hospital. They can throw them on gurneys and treat them afterwards.
Blocking an emergency entrance at a hospital is despicable behaviour and they would deserve any tire treads they recieved. Imagine a family member in an ambulance is trying to get in there to save their life where seconds count. Every one of those people should be rounded up and charged with endangering life imo.
 

Roadghost

Well-known member
A lot of the big city slums are being gentrified now. You never would have thought that Harlem NY could be anything but a slum, but high property values have massive condo developments going in everywhere there. Look at Montreal and the notorious Point St Charles and Little Burgundy district portrayed in the famous Morley Callaghan novel The Loved and the Lost - it's all gentrified now with expensive cars and renovated townhomes.

But we shouldn't be blaming the successful for the plight of the poor. Most of the poor aren't very smart, or they have substance abuse problems, or they're just plain lazy and incompetent. We have strong social safety nets for them in Canada. The U.S. does too. There are some people whom if you gave $1million would soon blow it and end up back on skid row. I don't agree with the socialists that throwing more money at that problem will make it go away. I believe in making it easier for these people to get jobs, start businesses and make their own living. If they don't want to do that, they can stay in the slums.
 

Roadghost

Well-known member
No words. :(


EDIT:
It gets worse.

Protesters gathered outside the emergency room at the hospital where the injured deputies were being treated.

“To the protesters blocking the entrance & exit of the HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM yelling “We hope they die” referring to 2 LA Sheriff's ambushed today in #Compton: DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY ENTRIES & EXITS TO THE HOSPITAL,” the sheriff's department tweeted. “People's lives are at stake when ambulances can't get through.”

They need bullet proof glass on those cop cars. There's going to be more of this.
 

FullMotoJacket

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Or not. They were screaming "we hope they die". Equal treatment for all is the goal right?

Once the person being brought in in the ambulance is through triage and stable (or DOA, whichever come first), then treat the cannon fodder.

It's like a similar but different version of the Trolly Problem. If there's a t-bone collision at an intersection and both drivers are injured, should you treat the one with the worse injuries first or the one that was going through the intersection on the green and injured by no fault of their own?
 

nobbie48

Well-known member
Site Supporter
not really related, but somewhat since discussion is of poor and working poor. My friend is a speech pathologist and now retired volunteers at a school in Hamiltons north end, its a melting pot and being a pretty low rent area its where a lot of New Canadian go to. 30 different languages spoken in that public school.
But the new Canadians work and move to a better area with better schools, less petty crime, nicer properties, usually in 3-8yrs. Then are the 3-4th generation north enders that learned where the food bank is from thier mom and are third and 4th generation welfare cases.
Yes that's a sweeping generalization and a broad observation, but many pockets of Canada where there is a very poor population, it doesn't have to be that way, its a lifestyle choice.

I read an article written by a traveler going through India by train. At one transfer point he bought a bottle of Coke and drank it. When finished he left the bottle on the bench behind him, not being interested in the cent or two deposit.

The second his hand left the bottle a kid snatched it up and ran off, obviously for the few pennies.

The traveler thought about the timing of the kid. He had to have been watching and judging the time. If he grabbed the bottle out of the man's hands it would have been theft. If he delayed someone else could have scored the prize. All for a penny or two. That kid would do well in commerce, given a chance.

Here, no one would be interested. IMO it's not a lifestyle choice. It's a lifestyle education.

If a kid is living in Rosedale with a couple of MBA parents he /she, at dinner, hears about investing, business opportunities, moving up in life, making wise choices. How to tell the maid the laundry needs attention.

If a kid is living in the burbs with a couple of middle income parents he / she hears about union jobs, cost of living, taxes, mortgages, grocery prices, trade wages, how long one has to save for a new car, the best value in shopping even if you had to drive a bit farther etc. Where to buy a new washing machine.

If a kid is living in a ghetto with a single welfare mom he / she learns where to get stuff free. How to survive on Kraft Dinners, food banks, strange men staying over the night. How to hide the holes in your clothes.

Nutrition? What's that?

If calories were the only criteria, No Frills has donuts for $2.00 a dozen. Enough calories for a person for a day. No protein, vitamins, minerals, fiber. In a day or two you feel like crap and in time your teeth fall out or rot. You talk funny at a job interview because you don't want them to see your hourglass cavities or gaps. You don't get the job.

I used to drive through Rexdale on my way to work and every morning I saw the same kid eating his breakfast on his way to school. It was a 2 liter bottle of pop and a bag of chips. Your body needs nutrients to grow but so does your brain. That kid will never join Mensa. Jobs for people with low intelligence are disappearing. Hooking, petty theft and dealing drugs doesn't require a high skill level.

I'm one of those that believe that our personalities are formed early in life and once in school it's too late for many. We imprint on our early years. Even the best and most caring of teachers have trouble changing that. The system can go against them as well.

I knew an ex teacher that took an interest in a girl that was having study problems and she blossomed. Then another teacher gave him a warning. The girl was from a broken home and the mother had a live in boyfriend that was getting tired of hearing about Mr. Wonderful teacher. Sooner or later there would be allegations.......

He quit teaching because he couldn't stand by and ignore a problem.

The above is ignored by the incompetent weasels that climb the ladder to the top, stepping on the fingers of the ones trying to really help.
 

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