2022 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!) | Page 15 | GTAMotorcycle.com

2022 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)

Lightcycle

Rounder of bolts, Dropper of tools
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He's (understandably) over-paranoid that any unnecessary pressure to Bagnaia is unhelpful. Bagnaia can lose 5 points (finishing 2nd), or worse, crash. I bet if team communications were allowed, he would have been yelling "dont you ******* dare get near him!!!"

Before the race, Ducati said there were no team orders.

No team orders... but, read between the lines... team orders...

This is why it was a mistake to let Miller go. He knew his place on the team and would have (continued) to make an excellent #2 team mate and tail gunner. Having two riders racing for the win/championship is like shades of Rossi and Lorenzo all over again. No clear hierarchy with both riders tripping over themselves battling for Alpha.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
He's back this weekend! By the sound of it's more of an extended test this season, but... this is Marc, and if he can qualify well he will probably revert back to his old ways.


This is why it was a mistake to let Miller go. He knew his place on the team and would have (continued) to make an excellent #2 team mate and tail gunner. Having two riders racing for the win/championship is like shades of Rossi and Lorenzo all over again. No clear hierarchy with both riders tripping over themselves battling for Alpha.

Enea will be a champ sooner than Bagnia and while it's true that Ducati management is it's own worst enemy I really think getting rid of Miller was the right choice because they just put it's first real championship contender on thier works team; I think he is way better than Dovi and will probably be a much more consistent rider than Pecco who is incredibly fast, but just too unstable. Pecco's recent streak is a solid turn around, but even with the full weight of Ducati I still can't see him doing the same in the flyaway races. Barring freak weather or crash he will probably win this weekend, too.

But honestly, it's just going to make for good racing; Enea fought to the last coroner and could have gotten the win had he not messed up that last lap, and only barely lost it Pecco on the straight showing him what he can expect next year.
 
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Chaos

Well-known member
Enea will be a champ sooner than Bagnia and while it's true that Ducati management is it's own worst enemy I really think getting rid of Miller was the right choice because they just put it's first real championship contender on thier works team; I think he is way better than Dovi and will probably be a much more consistent rider than Pecco who is incredibly fast, but just too unstable. Pecco's recent streak is a solid turn around, but even with the full weight of Ducati I still can't see him doing the same in the flyaway races. Barring freak weather or crash he will probably win this weekend, too.

But honestly, it's just going to make for good racing; Enea fought to the last coroner and could have gotten the win had he not messed up that last lap, and only barely lost it Pecco on the straight showing him what he can expect next year.

I don't think Enea is any more or less consistent than Pecco. At least, not tangibly wide enough for me.

Is Enea a better rider? We'll know next year for sure. Equal bikes - equal support, theoretically anyway.
 

Priller

Well-known member
Bastianini has shown huge potential, but has also been very up and down this year. The biggest jump has been his time attack pace, which means he's not as reliant on his tire management skills for late speed. I think Bagnaia wasn't lying when he complained about how Ducati was so focused on testing new bits at the beginning of the season that they forgot they needed to find a good baseline for the new bike. Once they found that, his speed increased dramatically. He also had some bad luck, getting knocked out of two races that weren't his fault. Getting those points back would make the difference to possibly leading the championship at this point.

I'm very curious whether the speed Yamaha achieved at the Misano test (second fastest) will play out in the upcoming races. Quartararo was apparently thrilled with the test, but as Aleix pointed out, the track gets so grippy with all the Michelin rubber down that it can flatter to deceive. Ducati has looked unbeatable lately, but Aleix has historically done well at Aragon, so should at least be fighting for the podium. Fabio hasn't done so well at the track, so we'll see if Yamaha struggles.

Pecco has also gone from 'nothing to lose', which is where he's historically done best, to now dealing with pressure being back in the title hunt. We'll see how he responds...
 

Chaos

Well-known member
I'm very curious whether the speed Yamaha achieved at the Misano test (second fastest) will play out in the upcoming races. Quartararo was apparently thrilled with the test, but as Aleix pointed out, the track gets so grippy with all the Michelin rubber down that it can flatter to deceive. Ducati has looked unbeatable lately, but Aleix has historically done well at Aragon, so should at least be fighting for the podium. Fabio hasn't done so well at the track, so we'll see if Yamaha struggles.

Weren't they testing the 2023 engine?
 

Priller

Well-known member
Weren't they testing the 2023 engine?

You're absolutely right. I thought they had registered the new motor but reverted to the 2021 model for reliability, but they are stuck with what they have.

Same for the aero bits, but apparently the chassis updates may appear as early as Aragon...
 

norri

Well-known member
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TK4

Well-known member
Just saw the Friday practice results from Aragon - all 3 classes are shaping up to be gun fights, I can hardly wait.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
Is Enea a better rider? We'll know next year for sure. Equal bikes - equal support, theoretically anyway.

Misano and and Aragon sealed the deal, he is on an older satellite bike without all the data/support and still delivers, he knows how to manage the Michelin better than just about anyone on the grid right now and couple that with his outright pace and ability to scrap for places and I still think he is the better rider. I don't know if Pecco has that killer instinct, he seems a lot like Dovi to me.

Sucks about the early crashes on the opening lap as Marc made up tons of places and looked like he was ready to be in the top 5 but over all it makes te championship more exciting so that is what matters. Luckily, Fabio is fine despite 2 crashes on Sunday:

 

Priller

Well-known member
Misano and and Aragon sealed the deal, he is on an older satellite bike without all the data/support and still delivers, he knows how to manage the Michelin better than just about anyone on the grid right now and couple that with his outright pace and ability to scrap for places and I still think he is the better rider. I don't know if Pecco has that killer instinct, he seems a lot like Dovi to me.
I think in both cases it's hard to know. In Misano, Bastianini had to play it safe to make sure he didn't take Bagnaia out, and at Aragon, Bagnaia had to play it safe to make sure he didn't throw away a gift handed to him by Marquez. Until both are fighting for the same stakes, it's hard to measure. I wasn't sold on Bagnaia, but the way he's inserted himself right back into the championship, mostly by winning, has been really impressive. Now the true test happens with a lot of added pressure, as well as mental arithmetic having to happen on the bike about racing for points rather than wins.

Don't get me wrong, I see a huge amount of possibility in Bastanini, and could easily see him winning multiple championships. But he's still early and has a lot to prove that he's more than a 'win or crash' kind of rider.

Sucks about the early crashes on the opening lap as Marc made up tons of places and looked like he was ready to be in the top 5 but over all it makes te championship more exciting so that is what matters.
I think Marquez deserves a bit more criticism than he's getting for this. He was obviously riding outside the limits of the bike at a track he thinks he should do well at, and at a time when the consequences were exactly what we saw. He's got a history now since his injury of taking risks that put other riders in danger, and while I don't think he in any way intended to take anyone out, he did do exactly what everyone has criticised Taka for: kamikaze moves when everyone is in a bunch.

I hope his recklessness doesn't get anyone seriously hurt. The later incident with Nakagami could have been horrifying. He's not fighting for a title, but his ego seems to think it's worth riding like that, despite not having the pace for much more than top-10 all weekend. He was running 14th in FP4, usually a good indicator of race pace. I get that he thinks counter-clockwise tracks are his dominion, but there's a time to sit back and ease yourself in...

Great for the championship, though as it does equal out some of Pecco's bad luck, so I suppose I shouldn't complain too much. I just saw Taka in the middle of the track with bikes passing on both sides, and nearly had a heart attack.

Overall, though, a fantastic race. It was great to see Aleix back on the podium, and I actually think he and Binder had the most impressive days against the Ducati wave. I was much more concerned about the battle for third, and so spent the last two laps squinting and yelling at the tiny little onboard view they gave.

Now there's worries that a typhoon in the Pacific will stop them getting the gear to Japan in time. Fingers crossed, as I'm so happy they're getting back to the Pacific races. I can't wait for Philip Island...
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
I think Marquez deserves a bit more criticism than he's getting for this. He was obviously riding outside the limits of the bike at a track he thinks he should do well at, and at a time when the consequences were exactly what we saw. He's got a history now since his injury of taking risks that put other riders in danger, and while I don't think he in any way intended to take anyone out, he did do exactly what everyone has criticised Taka for: kamikaze moves when everyone is in a bunch.
Personally, I think it was a racing incident; Marc had a slide out of the turn, shut the throttle and since Fabio was so close he couldn't react fast enough to avoid collision and hit him. Lorenzo and Rossi had a similar incident (but Rossi stayed on the bike) a few years back with no drama despite their past.


Taka's crash was awkward as hell for sure, avoidable perhaps, but I'm not sure how. Marc ALWAYS overides the HRC to get any level of performance out of the thing, that isn't anything new, but in doing so he goes beyond the bike's limits which makes him exciting. I'm not sure what could have been done differently other than just settle in as a back marker and rack up miles, but that isn't who he is and never will be, would it have been possible to for him to even go off track sooner to avoid taka?

With that said, this is Zarco's reaction:

I love his style. For me, he's one of the strongest and I told him this on Thursday, that he would be quite strong, but to move like that in a race, when you have this problem on the bike after the contact with Fabio, was too much. It was a crazy first lap and just because of one guy. I don't like to say this because I like him, but today it was beyond the limit that we have now.

 
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Chaos

Well-known member
Can't remember where i heard/read it (I think it was on the motogp broadcast) but Ducati is going to run 4 on factory and 4 on year-old spec bikes next year (rather than 5 and 3 respectively).

It'll be Factory, Pramac on the factory and VR46 and Gresini on the year-old. Marini is losing his factory bike.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
It'll be Factory, Pramac on the factory and VR46 and Gresini on the year-old. Marini is losing his factory bike.
I heard the same on BT Sports, Rossi's connection couldn't make up for the fact that Marini is under-performing since he got into GP. It's lame that Iker, Remy, and Daren have all been given the boot to WSBK.

Kieth Huewan pretty much breaks things down:

 

Priller

Well-known member
Not sure Marini has been underperforming that much with a sequence of 4ths under his belt. He's mirrored Pecco somewhat, with early season struggles giving way to much more consistent performances as the 22 version has been sorted out.

As for being on the latest bike, ask Jorge Martin about how he feels about that. You become the test mules for whatever scheme Gigi has thought up lately, which is sometimes good but often bad. Enea is certainly not struggling to keep up on the old bike, showing lots more top speed than Bagnaia at Aragon, so it's not always bad to have a developed bike under you.

Regarding Keith Heuwen, I gave up listening to that old fool ages ago. He's got the classic mentality of ex-racers/athletes that think the only people allowed to comment on a sport are people who've done it at the top level. He has so little interesting to say on that podcast that I've basically stopped listening. It's all about, "In my day..." and defending Freddie Spencer for the terrible and inconsistent decisions made around rider discipline.

I've yet to see anyone say that Marquez should have been sanctioned or otherwise punished, just that he was maybe on the edge at a time and place that he should have been more cautious under the circumstances. Zarco had the strongest criticism, and he trumps them all on experience and pedigree. The only one being hysterical is Heuwen himself, mostly because he absolutely hates Simon Patterson and will use any excuse to take a shot (hence the 'tubby journo' insult). Weirdly, I didn't hear Patterson say anything negative about Marquez except to quote Zarco...
 

Lightcycle

Rounder of bolts, Dropper of tools
Site Supporter
FB was clearly a racing incident, but what happened to Taka could've been avoided if MM was more considerate about taking himself off the track once he felt the bike was off.

After the contact with Fabio, there was a lot of smoke coming off the back of MMs bike, even before he engaged the holeshot device for the next turn, but Marquez kept riding. That was just irresponsible and dangerous to everyone else around him.
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
FB was clearly a racing incident, but what happened to Taka could've been avoided if MM was more considerate about taking himself off the track once he felt the bike was off.

After the contact with Fabio, there was a lot of smoke coming off the back of MMs bike, even before he engaged the holeshot device for the next turn, but Marquez kept riding. That was just irresponsible and dangerous to everyone else around him.

About that...

"At that moment I realised it was not Marc, it was totally not Marc’s fault. It was an unlucky accident and 0% I never got angry at him.'"

Taka Nakagami

As for Heuwen, I think it's less elitism and is instead shining the light that the journalists opinions are done with a very clear agenda and bend to the them: Simon called it out, too. The guy who gave Pecco a hardtime over the Rodman BS underscores what is happening these days and most of it has nothing to do with the racing and more about their irrelevance as an Industry.

They've given into the same clickbait non-sense that other sensationalist media has done to polarize and garner clicks at all costs, this latest incident was scary, but a racing incident none the less, which impacted not just the race but the whole championship entirely: but what is the story? Just so it's clear, I value riders/ex-riders opinion far more than I would the enitre paddock full of media/journalists. It's another reason why I dislike Dorna coverage, aside from Simon, they are all non-riders with almost no valid input or experience on the matter. It's why BT sports is way better overall.

But whatever, B2B race weekends with Asian time means we can watch at sensible hours this weekend.
 

Priller

Well-known member
About that...

"At that moment I realised it was not Marc, it was totally not Marc’s fault. It was an unlucky accident and 0% I never got angry at him.'"

Taka Nakagami

This dead horse has been well and truly beaten to a pulp, but Taka isn't going to criticize Marc even remotely. He's 100% dependant on Honda to get paid and Honda is 100% desperate to keep Marc happy for fear of him bolting at the end of his contract like he was hinting at when he came back at Misano.

As for Heuwen, I think it's less elitism and is instead shining the light that the journalists opinions are done with a very clear agenda and bend to the them: Simon called it out, too. The guy who gave Pecco a hardtime over the Rodman BS underscores what is happening these days and most of it has nothing to do with the racing and more about their irrelevance as an Industry.

They've given into the same clickbait non-sense that other sensationalist media has done to polarize and garner clicks at all costs, this latest incident was scary, but a racing incident none the less, which impacted not just the race but the whole championship entirely: but what is the story? Just so it's clear, I value riders/ex-riders opinion far more than I would the enitre paddock full of media/journalists. It's another reason why I dislike Dorna coverage, aside from Simon, they are all non-riders with almost no valid input or experience on the matter. It's why BT sports is way better overall.

I'm ambivalent about Patterson. He's one of the best at breaking stories, and seems to be liked by a huge chunk of the paddock, but he's also strident and occasionally takes some things way too seriously. I couldn't care less about the Rodman nonsense on either side of the discussion, but he does have some excellent points about rider safety, particularly concussion. The rest is irritating at worst. Either way, I'd rather hear him than Heuwen, who's an old man with little to add except defending his buddies and grumbling, much like Don Cherry became in hockey. Racing in 1983 has so little in common with modern GP that he might as well have been in a different sport anyway.

I like lots of ex-racers as commentators or journalists, Crafar towards the top, but also Mat Oxley and obviously Guintoli. They use their experience to add something to the discussion. But to say someone can't speak about a sport because they were never professional at the top level is ridiculous. David Emmett is one of the best out there, and he was never a racer. Journalists do things racers can't or won't, and they're allowed to have opinions about things too. After all, without the journalists, most of the ex-racers would be giving Carmelo and Dorna hand jobs endlessly...

But whatever, B2B race weekends with Asian time means we can watch at sensible hours this weekend.

Another weird weekend thanks to Dorna's insistence on having a round half a world away within a week. Looks like the usual suspects at the top of the timing sheets, though it'll be hard for Aprilia and Yamaha to make passes stick in the race with all the point and squirt at Motegi. Honda and Marc seem fast in short stints, let's see how he does over a full race. Rain would help a lot to reduce stress on the muscles. Current forecast is rain all day Saturday, and dry on Sunday, so the grid will have little reflection of who's fast. Also means teams have minimal tire data, so we could see some weird results on Sunday.

And I always watch at a sensible hour thanks to the MotoGP on-demand feature... ;)
 

Chaos

Well-known member
I don't believe Keith Heuwen attends the races. While I think you can still be a journalist (or commentator/pundit) not going to races, I think affects your quality. I think some of his inferred 'Old Man Yells at Cloud' is partly due to that - I think some of his thoughts would be different if he were at the track regularly.

The journalists/media that I follow appear to be at the race track regularly, which influences/shows in their output. Oxley is great IMO. Simon Patterson is good as well, some peculiar hills to die on notwithstanding.
 

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