2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!) | Page 21 | GTAMotorcycle.com

2021 MotoGP Discussion (No Links - Contains Spoilers!)

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Snowmadic
Site Supporter
I don't watch World Superbike, are tires a constant subject there too?

They're single manufacturer (Pirelli) offering different compounds, like MotoGP.

There is some discussion about how some rider+bike combinations work with certain compounds and not with others. But I would say tire selection in MotoGP provides more of a swing in performance during race weekend than WSBK.

Picking the wrong tire in WSBK just means Jonathan Rea comes in 2nd instead of 1st that race. ;)

Although 2021 looks like it might be a changing-of-the-guard season. Razgotlioglu seems to be the only one capable of breaking Rea's dominance.
 
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Lightcycle

Snowmadic
Site Supporter

Chaos

Well-known member
Silly season rumour:

WithU was originally supposed to be the new Yamaha team sponsor with Andrea Dovizioso, but the latest rumour is that WithU is actually going to sponsor VR46 since it's unlikely that Aramco will be the VR46 sponsor. This may put AD's return in doubt, since his return was tied to the Italian sponsorship.
 

Priller

Well-known member
Despite the bad press lately, looks like Michelin is sticking around:

Michelin Extend Contract To Be MotoGP Official Tire Supplier Through 2026 | MotoMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks

Silly season rumour:

WithU was originally supposed to be the new Yamaha team sponsor with Andrea Dovizioso, but the latest rumour is that WithU is actually going to sponsor VR46 since it's unlikely that Aramco will be the VR46 sponsor. This may put AD's return in doubt, since his return was tied to the Italian sponsorship.

Lots of noise lately about how short-sighted Petronas/SRT/whatever-they-are was to go with Dovi over a massively improved (and very young) Lecuona. Wonder if they've had the same thoughts and are perfectly happy to let Dovi go with this as an excuse. Depends if Lecuona has actually signed that Honda WSBK contract yet, I suppose...
 

Winales_2017

Well-known member
This was the first time I've had an issue with the Dorna feed in absolutely ages, to be fair. Otherwise, it's a fantastic service and having access to pretty much every session on demand is great, including critical ones like FP4, which are often a good glimpse into who has good race pace. I still miss Toby Moody and Julian Ryder, but the current commentary team is pretty good. Simon Crafar is great, too.

My only beef is I haven't found a way to start the race from the beginning while it's live without being spoiled by seeing the live feed to start. This past Sunday, for example, we got up with the intention of watching live, but a dog with the runs ruined those plans. We had to wait until the race was over, as well as all the post-race interviews and podium celebrations to start from the beginning in the 'Spoiler Free' section.

I won't get on my high horse about piracy, but personally I don't mind paying for a series that I get so much entertainment out of, and I believe it helps keep the racing healthy. It's not that expensive in the grand scheme of things, especially when compared to other services I'm more ambivalent about, like DAZN (Premier League plus Serie A made sense, but losing Serie A makes it a lot less interesting). Sure, Dorna is a classic European sports monopoly, but they've done a decent job with the series, especially when compared to the shambles of F1...

Have you been a subscriber for very long? I think anyone who has had it for more than a single season will have lost count of the number of times it's failed, my favorite being 'the happening' in 2019:

https://www.reddit.com/r/motogp/comments/azh4kg
Jules was a Euro sports and BT2 commentator, I don't think he has ever expressed a good word about Dorna from an operational standpoint in any of the interviews I've seen either, which is why I really enjoyed his commentary since he wasn't afraid to speak truth to power when it was required. I've always been a fan of a Crafer, you can go back to my comments from his first testing session coverage, as that is what most racers were like in my experience--they're not journalists, or professional speakers sp expecting them to sound like that makes no sense to anyone not in the Marketing department, however his insight is absolute gold if you know what you're hearing. Moreover, he was a 90s racer when things were only starting to become as corpo as they are now so media was a very small part of what they were doing.

I have a clear bias, and possibly a chip on my shoulder in regards to DORNA, but with that said I think there are now so many more options that don't require their exclusive gatekeeping.

DAZN is 10euro/month or 100 euro/year, which is half of Dorna's costs, and it carried over much of the team from Movistar in Spain, which is on par to the BT2 team when Jules was around.

Cost will always be relative, but more importantly I'm of the belief that it's only through competition in the Market that one can successfully disrupt an ossified business model to enter the 21st century, and I think seeing Rossi finally leave the track and allowing younger talent stepping is a step in the right direction for DORNA. But so many more simple things are left to do, like some thought into the UI/UX of the videopass is the lowest possible hanging fruit--it cannot be a surprise to anyone people would prefer a 'hide spoilers' option in terms of available content.

I have a huge problem with their payment processing, that will lock you into their system and autopay full membership costs unless you deactivate which is not always possible depending on how much they cared that day. It's those kind of scammy early internet porn schemes that makes me think only by going after their bottom line and hemorrhaging users is the only way for them to take notice until they get the right talent in there to do basic things that would improve the product so much more to not justify the cost but enhance everything else around it.

The 1080p source looks like upscaled 720p, and 4k cameras have been tested at the track as one-ffs but never materialized despite costs increasing from Dorna and the ubiquity of 4k on most smartphones and retail consumer items increasing. I get they have had 2 very hard years with no and now limited spectators, but they have had to look to the future more frequently during the fat years and act accordingly, because as bad as F1 was under Bernie, I'm pretty positive Carmello has overtook him in the 'how to think about a business fixed in the 20th century award' for the longest amount of period of time in pro-sports.

But, in the end it doesn't matter because I won:
 

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Priller

Well-known member
Have you been a subscriber for very long? I think anyone who has had it for more than a single season will have lost count of the number of times it's failed,
I was a subscriber for years from the first year they offered the service, but checked out around 2017 until this year, so missed any drama in 2019. The first year was a bit patchy, but subsequent years were fine for me. The app is also available on pretty much every device I've used, so I can easily watch on my phone, tablet, Roku, Smart TV, and direct through my Cogeco Android-based IPTV.

Jules was a Euro sports and BT2 commentator, I don't think he has ever expressed a good word about Dorna from an operational standpoint in any of the interviews I've seen either, which is why I really enjoyed his commentary since he wasn't afraid to speak truth to power when it was required.
For sure, but he and Moody are still the gold standard for a commentating team for me. I was never a big fan of Nick Harris, but the current guys are good.

I've always been a fan of a Crafer, you can go back to my comments from his first testing session coverage, as that is what most racers were like in my experience--they're not journalists, or professional speakers sp expecting them to sound like that makes no sense to anyone not in the Marketing department, however his insight is absolute gold if you know what you're hearing. Moreover, he was a 90s racer when things were only starting to become as corpo as they are now so media was a very small part of what they were doing.
My only beef with Crafar is his soft Kiwi accent is sometimes hard to understand when there's lots of noise in the pits. He does as good a job as anyone combining an understanding of racers' mentalities, riding techniques, and the technical side of the bikes. I understand Sylvain Guintoli is great on BT Sport, too, complete with his wacky French/English hybrid accent (the only weirder accent is when Jack Miller starts talking in his clipped Euro-english)...

DAZN is 10euro/month or 100 euro/year, which is half of Dorna's costs, and it carried over much of the team from Movistar in Spain, which is on par to the BT2 team when Jules was around.
I was talking about DAZN Canada, which is $20 CAD if you go monthly, though significantly cheaper on an annual basis. For me, it's really only about Premier League and Champions League, (I stopped caring about the NFL a few years ago). I've had lots more technical issues with them, particularly at big moments in big events (disconnects and very low bitrate during the CL final, for example).

Cost will always be relative, but more importantly I'm of the belief that it's only through competition in the Market that one can successfully disrupt an ossified business model to enter the 21st century, and I think seeing Rossi finally leave the track and allowing younger talent stepping is a step in the right direction for DORNA.
I suppose, but I'm not sure I'm convinced that Dorna is all that ossified by the standards of pro sports. They offer a streaming package (albeit at a premium price) to markets without a local broadcaster. They also have deals in markets with enough local interest to justify their own coverage. BT Sport in the UK is a good example, and it's hardly free-to-air: It's £15/mo on a two year contract. Being a Premier League fan in the UK sucks even more, as multiple subscriptions are required to watch all the matches, unlike one in most of the rest of the world, so Dorna clearly has some lessons to learn when it comes to milking fans...

But so many more simple things are left to do, like some thought into the UI/UX of the videopass is the lowest possible hanging fruit--it cannot be a surprise to anyone people would prefer a 'hide spoilers' option in terms of available content.
Dorna does offer a 'no spoilers' option, but the race only appears there once it's complete. What I was talking about is being able to start the race from the beginning while the race is happening if you join late. You can open the live feed and rewind to the beginning, but you will see the order at whatever point you join unless you cover the screen somehow. This is an issue with every other live streaming sports app I've used, including DAZN.

I have a huge problem with their payment processing, that will lock you into their system and autopay full membership costs unless you deactivate which is not always possible depending on how much they cared that day.
This doesn't bother me nearly as much as it does you. It's really easy to disable the auto-renew (just checked, it's a grand total of three clicks on the website: Subscriptions>Modify Renewal>Cancel Subscription). The alternative is something like the MLB app (which my father-in-law uses), which requires you to re-enter payment info every year. Not a big deal, but I don't have the horror you experience at the thought...

The 1080p source looks like upscaled 720p, and 4k cameras have been tested at the track as one-ffs but never materialized despite costs increasing from Dorna and the ubiquity of 4k on most smartphones and retail consumer items increasing.
Agreed on this one. I don't mind the quality as-is, but 4K would be great. It's still pretty rare, though, with even the Sportsnet 4K feed mostly not being 4K at all. Apparently most so-called 4K streaming isn't anywhere near, though if you're watching on a phone, you wouldn't be able to tell anyway...

I get they have had 2 very hard years with no and now limited spectators, but they have had to look to the future more frequently during the fat years and act accordingly, because as bad as F1 was under Bernie, I'm pretty positive Carmello has overtook him in the 'how to think about a business fixed in the 20th century award' for the longest amount of period of time in pro-sports.
My understanding is the circuits paid the highest price for Covid, as they rely heavily on the gate revenue. It obviously hasn't been good for the sport, but I think Dorna isn't hurting too badly...

But, in the end it doesn't matter because I won:
Took my wife ages to figure out how that was pronounced, and once she did, she couldn't believe how much they plastered that logo all over everything...
 

250R-ICE

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Morbidelli deserved a factory ride by last year. He managed to finish 2nd overall on a bike that was older than all the factory riders. Once he gets back to 100% health and gets to spend more time on the factory bike. I honestly think he will be better than Fabio or at the very least more consistent.
 

Chaos

Well-known member
Silly season rumour:

WithU was originally supposed to be the new Yamaha team sponsor with Andrea Dovizioso, but the latest rumour is that WithU is actually going to sponsor VR46 since it's unlikely that Aramco will be the VR46 sponsor. This may put AD's return in doubt, since his return was tied to the Italian sponsorship.

Well, AD has signed, so part of this rumour hasn't panned out. Also, it appears he signed a factory contract.

Also, the fact that VR46 didn't announce its 22 plans this weekend is curious. I would guess he doesn't want to announce a team without a sponsor, and he does not yet have one secured.

This is a bit of nostalgia talking, but it'd be cool to see 'Nastro Azzuro' back, but i think you'll end up seeing a bike with familiar Rossi sponsors like Monster, AVG, Dianese.
 
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Winales_2017

Well-known member
Took my wife ages to figure out how that was pronounced, and once she did, she couldn't believe how much they plastered that logo all over everything...
Even the announcers from Dorna got it wrong, I won a bet with a friend they would pronounce it like that, too. I just wonder if they got a memo from Marketing to do that in order to drive more traffic to that exchange. In short, it's actually 'Bee-Tea-Sea,' as is the typical abbreviation (BTC) for Bitcoin, but it's an exchange from Turkey so they can make it look or sound odd.

What's even better is the debut was perhaps one of the best races in recent years, so we will see it for years to come!

As for the other stuff, I can concede to agree to disagree. It is my opinion that mega corps, as well as monopolies, rely on eliminating anything but controlled participation in an ecosystem, thus giving them the ability to reign in on any real competitor disrupting them.

I'm afraid to say that this is exactly what you are seeing here, we as a captured audience put up with it because the racing is good and it happens to have gotten better year on year so we accept the 'there is no alternative' narrative when in fact there is tons of ways to improve the system but the model works 'well enough' so everyone suffers. This the notion of legacy costs in action: sadly I think we may be entering a point of inflection that may render this entire type of entertainment (ICE based motorsports), and it's business model, into a relic of the past, which is why I think exploring other types of business models are required if it is to continue--electrify all of the fleet vehicles in the supply chain and logistics but keep the bikes both ICE and EV.

The days of having manufacturers and oil companies call the shots with ad money is coming to an end and the writing is on the wall when most manufacturers are calling to have an entire EV line up in the not too distant future. The growth for bikes is in the developing World for a reason, the West has probably peaked or is near it's peak of consumption of these products and manufactures have been throwing everything to get them to buy with not much growth. Interest rates for new bikes have been so low, and the approval process is pretty easy--I got instantly approved for a 20k 2018 SP Fireblade when they came out with no real intention of buying it with a quick credit check. The salesman said they only had the show-floor model and had to request a crate and have the bike built in 1-2 weeks due to low demand.

This is the reality, so while I know it seems that 'Winales is just being a bully to Dorna because he thinks they suck' the reality is I'm really just tired of this is and what feckless, shallow and short sighted thinking (typical from gentocracies) ultimately yields. And to be honest it would be a travesty of epic proportions if a guy like Pedro Acosta isn't able to reach his full potential due to 'bad timing.' Just the thought of him and Marc having a Rossi v Marquez rivalry would be enough to explore marketing Riders, Teams and Engineers more like tiktok stars or influencers considering they are trying to replace Rossi's commercial value now that he is leaving.

There is also much more tech to play with now to make this content more widely distributed and for lower costs, too. They know they can do away with like 50% of their presentation staff and no one will are so long as the racing remains good.

Anyway, rant over...

Dovi coming back is bitter sweet, I doubt he will do much this or next season other than fill the slot and do some testing for parts since the bike is and will continue to be built for Fabio (rightly so). It's hard to think how a bike that rewards the silky JLO style of riding will be anything like what he is used to or gotten success on since the Ducati was a completely different beast--arguably still the best bike on the grid.

Also, I still think he just never had killer instinct to be a champion in GP and Marc never really let him get anywhere close to one for that reason.
 
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Priller

Well-known member
Morbidelli deserved a factory ride by last year. He managed to finish 2nd overall on a bike that was older than all the factory riders. Once he gets back to 100% health and gets to spend more time on the factory bike. I honestly think he will be better than Fabio or at the very least more consistent.
Tough to get more consistent than Fabio this year in the current era. Take away the arm pump and wardrobe malfunctions, and he'd almost have it sewn up already. Don't get me wrong, I really like Morbidelli, but Quartararo has found something special with that Yamaha this year. Nobody else (including Morbidelli) has been anywhere near as consistent, which is why he could finish 8th for the rest of the year while Baganaia wins out, and Quartararo would still win the championship.
Well, AD has signed, so part of this rumour hasn't panned out. Also, it appears he signed a factory contract.
Poor Lecuona. Hope he kicks a** in WSBK, but that Honda isn't a great platform...

Also, the fact that VR46 didn't announce its 22 plans this weekend is curious. I would guess he doesn't want to announce a team without a sponsor, and he does not yet have one secured.
Still waiting to see if the Saudi riches come rolling in? I have to admit, I've really enjoyed this particular soap opera.

This is a bit of nostalgia talking, but it'd be cool to see 'Nastro Azzuro' back, but i think you'll end up seeing a bike with familiar Rossi sponsors like Monster, AVG, Dianese.
Peroni has become the global brand (sweet Roman water), so that would be more likely, but problematic considering the countries MotoGP is courting these days.

Even the announcers from Dorna got it wrong, I won a bet with a friend they would pronounce it like that, too. I just wonder if they got a memo from Marketing to do that in order to drive more traffic to that exchange. In short, it's actually 'Bee-Tea-Sea,' as is the typical abbreviation (BTC) for Bitcoin, but it's an exchange from Turkey so they can make it look or sound odd.
Considering how that 'c' is pronounced around much of the world, there;s no way it's not intentional...

I'm afraid to say that this is exactly what you are seeing here, we as a captured audience put up with it because the racing is good and it happens to have gotten better year on year so we accept the 'there is no alternative' narrative when in fact there is tons of ways to improve the system but the model works 'well enough' so everyone suffers. This the notion of legacy costs in action: sadly I think we may be entering a point of inflection that may render this entire type of entertainment (ICE based motorsports), and it's business model, into a relic of the past, which is why I think exploring other types of business models are required if it is to continue--electrify all of the fleet vehicles in the supply chain and logistics but keep the bikes both ICE and EV.
I'm all for EV's, but we're a long way from a compelling motorcycle race series. The math just isn't there to make something that weighs <200 kg, can last 20+ laps, and looks fast on TV. Dorna is keeping it in-house for a reason, as it will be good one day, but it's not ready for prime time just yet.

This is the reality, so while I know it seems that 'Winales is just being a bully to Dorna because he thinks they suck
Definitely not. Agree to disagree, as you said. I have minimal love for Dorna, I just know that many similar outfits are much worse. It's similar to football: I'm a Liverpool supporter, and they're owned by greedy American hedge fund billionaires. The competition is owned either by greedier American billionaires (Glazers at ManU, Kroenkes at Arsenal), horrible oligarchs (Chelsea), or by sportwashing murderous regimes (PSG or City). Part of me is grateful that FSG is not that bad, part of me hates the fact that football has become a money pit where multi-generational family allegiances have been manipulated to either present a positive spin to murderers or to line the pockets of people who couldn't care a bit about the working class history or tradition of the clubs they milk dry.

All of this is to say that all major sport is now tainted by money, and I find Dorna to be less awful than many. That may be damning with faint praise, but when put in the same box as the Premier League, F1, La Liga, UEFA, FIFA, UCI, IOC, etc., they're slightly less s**tty...

Dovi coming back is bitter sweet, I doubt he will do much this or next season other than fill the slot and do some testing for parts since the bike is and will continue to be built for Fabio (rightly so). It's hard to think how a bike that rewards the silky JLO style of riding will be anything like what he is used to or gotten success on since the Ducati was a completely different beast--arguably still the best bike on the grid.

Also, I still think he just never had killer instinct to be a champion in GP and Marc never really let him get anywhere close to one for that reason.
He made his own bed. Left because he thought he deserved a top factory bike, but that seat never materialised. I think he'll do okay, as he's done okay on pretty much every bike on the grid, but he's not a champion. The fact that he couldn't seal the deal last year when everything was laid out for him says it all for me. Weirdly, I think the Aprilia would have been a better fit for both parties, as the expectation would be much lower and his experience much more valued. That said, Aleix was hinting that he just wasn't that fast on the bike, so Aprilia may have backed off a bit.

I think he'll score the occasional podium and provide Yamaha with a lot of good data. Safe hands, but not exciting hands...
 

Chaos

Well-known member
Tough to get more consistent than Fabio this year in the current era. Take away the arm pump and wardrobe malfunctions, and he'd almost have it sewn up already. Don't get me wrong, I really like Morbidelli, but Quartararo has found something special with that Yamaha this year. Nobody else (including Morbidelli) has been anywhere near as consistent, which is why he could finish 8th for the rest of the year while Baganaia wins out, and Quartararo would still win the championship.

Biasedly, I am willing give Morbidelli the benefit of the doubt. I think the gap between his bike and the factory bike has widened, and the other manufacturers have found themselves in quality between the Yamaha Factory and A-Spec. Even still, did podium earlier the seasom.

Quartararo has found something, but I believe Morbidelli has something more in him too. Let us find out...
 

Hardwrkr13

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Well, AD has signed, so part of this rumour hasn't panned out. Also, it appears he signed a factory contract.

Also, the fact that VR46 didn't announce its 22 plans this weekend is curious. I would guess he doesn't want to announce a team without a sponsor, and he does not yet have one secured.

This is a bit of nostalgia talking, but it'd be cool to see 'Nastro Azzuro' back, but i think you'll end up seeing a bike with familiar Rossi sponsors like Monster, AVG, Dianese.
Bring back the Rizla ladies!
 

Priller

Well-known member
Fun QP2, and I got great joy out of watching Marquez crash out while trying to get a tow on Bagnaia. Less out of seeing Aleix possibly do the same. I'm of two minds on the weather tomorrow. If it's wet, Aprilia has a decent shot as they were quick in those conditions. But wet races are no fun, and I'd love to see Quartararo and Bagnaia have the good battle we were robbed of at Mugello. I know Fabio is singing "rain, rain, go away..."

Oh, and unless Suzuki figure something out, Mir will definitely be moving on after next season. He's been one cranky dude all year. Took some shots at Marquez's wheel sucking after the sessions today, too...

Bring back the Rizla ladies!
Ah, bless. Saw a guy at a trackday a while back with a Rizla paint job on his Gixxer, brought me right back.

Of course, I was always partial to the '70s drag racing dolls with that girl next door look and huuuge... uh... hair. Linda Vaughn and Barbara Roufs come to mind.

Still, it's better for the sport that we've moved on. It was off-putting for a lot of potential female fans, I think...
 

thwak

Well-known member
Site Supporter
I love to watch Marc wrestle with, and continually test the limits of that beast of a bike that Honda has given him but it pains me to think that he's sacrificing his body the way he is. His drive and determination is undeniable but I have to believe his career will come to an end soon at a very young age and he'll live out the rest of his life in continual pain.
 

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