Vintage Audio Gear - AV Home Theatre

To be clearer on the sub polarity. When I say match polarity it is not entirely physical but more of "try it both ways and see what sounds best."

Not to go too deep down the RLC/LCR Electrical Engineering rat hole... The crossover (all analog crossovers) will cause phase shift, how and what will depend on the "order" (first order, second order....). There will also be overlap (at the crossover frequency, by design) even if both the sub and mains are running through the same crossover. Even if everything is set up to look correct (physically--wiring wise) at the crossover point there is a chance the mains and the sub are cancelling each other out (one is backwards internally), so it does not hurt to reverse the polarity (to test) just to make sure. Some better subs will have a switch (but not all), some receivers have the option, if not just try reversing the wires on the speakers (all of them, mains, centre and surrounds) just to see.

Generally (ignoring the speaker locations and the impact of the speed of sound...) it is not a problem BUT when you start mixing x, y, and z brands you can run into a problem.

BTW this exact thing is happening in the speakers by design...the crossover (RLC/LCR circuit) in the speakers has phase shift. If the speakers are 2-way it is common for the tweeter to be internally wired reversed from the woofer (to correct for the shift at the crossover point), if not they will cancel each other out at the crossover point (each shifted 90 degrees in opposite directions = 180 degrees, depending on the order...). 3-way speaker the mid is commonly wired backwards (from the woofer and tweeter) for the same reason. Again, will depend a bit on the order of the crossover.

Long story short, what happens if the speaker maker decided to reverse the woofer instead of the tweeter.... without fancy test equipment we can only experiment with our ears as the test equipment. Then we consider the speed of sound and the location of the speakers...

At 100 Hz we are also talking ~2m for a half wavelength (from memory...), this is one of the reasons sub positioning also comes into the polarization equation. For this we use the positioning methods mentioned earlier first and try the above switch after we find the ideal position was found (by rolling around on the floor...). It is not as simple as a distance calculation (sub location) because the sound is bouncing off of the walls, furniture, room gain, etc.

I wish I had the knowledge and experience to speak like that BMD
and appreciate you doing it in a non-condescending way

I think I get what you're saying....after the amp has done it's thing
everything beyond that is analog and subject to interpretation by the speakers
their placement, and the listener's placement, so phase can be heard differently than the physical arrangement
lacking instrumentation to measure, we must rely on what's left of our ears

also gaining an understanding of what was referred to earlier as the British sound
messing around with this less than stellar system - but a huge improvement over compact stuff

I'm finding 70's music is far superior in quality of recording to just about anything else
so this means Stones, ELO, The Who, Queen etc all sound great, not Zep, great band but not produced very well
a few notable American exceptions to this: Steely Dan still is still a **** off and don't bother me experience
some 80's and 90's stuff are exceptions, since then everything was produced to be heard with a phone and ear buds

KW, I like the idea of nice 2 channel setup in the 2K range
but after 35 years around noisy AF yellow equipment
the premium would be lost on me

J_F said:

I'm finding 70's music is far superior in quality of recording to just about anything else
so this means Stones, ELO, The Who, Queen etc all sound great, not Zep, great band but not produced very well
a few notable American exceptions to this: Steely Dan still is still a **** off and don't bother me experience
some 80's and 90's stuff are exceptions, since then everything was produced to be heard with a phone and ear buds

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You want quality production, 10cc (before Godley and Creme left). Probably the best live sound from any band as well.

80s albums recorded at the AIR Montserrat studio (e.g. Dire Straits, Police, Elton John) are also worth a listen. Interestingly, the famous mixer board from that studio (the Neve AIR) is now at Subterranean Sound here in Toronto.

yes
Brothers In Arms is wonderful sounding record

afraid the voice of Sting, and the idea of Sting
are not appreciated by me

J_F said:

yes
Brothers In Arms is wonderful sounding record

afraid the voice of Sting, and the idea of Sting
are not appreciated by me

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I never liked Sting that much until I saw him in concert. Very talented bloke. He said he gets tired of singing “Roxanne” so he changes it up every concert. Did it on the fly and hit a home run as far as I'm concerned. He can also sing live unlike a lot of artists today.

There were stories of Elvis insisting the master sounded good (well, as good as possible) on an AM radio, because that's how most of his fans would hear it. Can't say for sure, I wasn't there...but it does not surprise me that music production would be tailored to the most common method of playback. I typically do not listen to too much recent music for many reasons, production quality is just one.

I am a fan of the first Boston album, the entire album! (second does not sound as good to me) for production quality, Scholz has some skills. The Queen song Somebody to Love is also a gold reference standard for me... Most of Queen's stuff is fantastic.

If you like Jazz piano Oscar Peterson is great, on a good system you can hear them (the players) talking to each other in the background, calling out notes, progressions, etc.! lesser system you don't.

Also look into "audiophile pressings/releases" from companies like Telarc, they do sound better for a couple of reasons. Usually much less compression (analog dynamic range, not talking digital MP3) and for an LP they do not press as many discs from each master disc... My 1812 Overture CD has a big warning on it due to the cannons (and lack of compression)...

Some regular LPs sound disappointing because the master disc was worn out and they just kept turning/pressing them out anyways...if you had an early pressing it sounds way better.

backmarkerducati said:

Also look into "audiophile pressings/releases" from companies like Telarc, they do sound better for a couple of reasons. Usually much less compression (analog dynamic range, not talking digital MP3) and for an LP they do not press as many discs from each master disc...

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Top of the food chain would be companies like Sheffield Labs and Nautilus doing direct to disc (live to mixing board to master lathe - no tape, start playing and start the lathe). Low volume - 1,500ish pressings then the masters get tossed. Good luck finding them. Estate sales and such. Japanese pressings - Lower volume/masters than UK and they use virgin vinyl. There are some small UK companies that do low volume/good vinyl eg: Linn. Ivor bought an Ortofon lathe and rebuilt it to his specs with a lot of in house made parts. Their pressings sound really good. Italian is hit and miss. Have a couple of good examples.

spending some time listening, and enjoying quite a bit
some music that I haven't spent time with in many years

having somewhat decent sounding equipment is nice
lets me hear the differences in recording and production

case in point is a band that I never really cared for much: AC/DC
Back in Black is a great album though
new singer but I don't think that's the main difference

Mutt Lange produced, recorded and mixed that album
and although it's the same formula:

Malcolm Younge and the bassist laying down a cast iron wall of sound
little brother in the shorts throwing in some decent lead guitar
and a squawking singer

the band sounds completely different
all in the production/mixing

anybody know of a system to wirelessly connect older NOT POWERED speakers to an older amp that does not have bluetooth?? I guess would need a transmitter, a reciever and would need an small amp on the reciever end to supply a powered signal to the speakers??
I dont want a sonos speaker (doesnt fit the design ethos) , and we have two nicer older amps I love, dont want to upgrade to a bluetooth amp.

Any thoughts folks??

crankcall said:

anybody know of a system to wirelessly connect older NOT POWERED speakers to an older amp that does not have bluetooth?? I guess would need a transmitter, a reciever and would need an small amp on the reciever end to supply a powered signal to the speakers??
I dont want a sonos speaker (doesnt fit the design ethos) , and we have two nicer older amps I love, dont want to upgrade to a bluetooth amp.

Any thoughts folks??

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Amazon sells some chinesium bluetooth transceivers. I have used a couple for work. Never evaluated them for sound quality.

Keep the bt receiver plugged into USB to keep it on, 1/8" to rca into the older amp. Speaker wires to speaker. No way around wires between the amp you like the sound of and the speakers.

If you like the aesthetic of the amp but dont need the sound, output of amp (preout or tape send) to bt transmitter, bt receiver into class d amp near speakers, wires from class d to speakers.

so it's the speakers you want to establish a wireless connection to?

this setup transmits stereo wireless signal
RCA input, RCA output
but like you said, with passive speakers
you're still gonna need an amp on the receiving end

crankcall said:

anybody know of a system to wirelessly connect older NOT POWERED speakers to an older amp that does not have bluetooth?? I guess would need a transmitter, a reciever and would need an small amp on the reciever end to supply a powered signal to the speakers??
I dont want a sonos speaker (doesnt fit the design ethos) , and we have two nicer older amps I love, dont want to upgrade to a bluetooth amp.

Any thoughts folks??

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Depends on where you want to place the speakers and distance from the receiver.

I use this in a 5.1 surround setup. Comes with a sending unit and a receiver. Says it’s for rear wireless but would probably work for other configurations.




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If it’s bluetooth just make sure it has the newest version or whatever you transmit wirelessly will be at the mercy of the transmitter efficacy regardless of the quality going into the transmitter. I have an amazon bought wireless receiver with pretty recent Bluetooth (it’s 2 years old) that I use to send Spotify streams to my powered speakers. It sounds pretty good actually, not compressed at all.

I'll look into the rocketfish gizmo, its a distance of about 35ft, line of sight. Getting wires there would be ..... difficult. I'm not concerned with sound quality on the wireless end (yeah I know thats what the thread is about LOL) , this is so when there is a house party, the great room sound can be supplimented with the kitchen sound (its all open space ) without having the music cranked at one end. Old people problems.

crankcall said:

I'll look into the rocketfish gizmo, its a distance of about 35ft, line of sight. Getting wires there would be ..... difficult. I'm not concerned with sound quality on the wireless end (yeah I know thats what the thread is about LOL) , this is so when there is a house party, the great room sound can be supplimented with the kitchen sound (its all open space ) without having the music cranked at one end. Old people problems.

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Newer Bluetooth is less susceptible to drop outs too!

crankcall said:

I'll look into the rocketfish gizmo, its a distance of about 35ft, line of sight. Getting wires there would be ..... difficult. I'm not concerned with sound quality on the wireless end (yeah I know thats what the thread is about LOL) , this is so when there is a house party, the great room sound can be supplimented with the kitchen sound (its all open space ) without having the music cranked at one end. Old people problems.

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That’s well within the spec which says up to 100 feet


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Found a kit on Amazon, finest Chinese electronic engineering, has a transmitter, receiver with 2x40w built in amp and says its plug and play. $129.00 so a cheap enough risk.
I priced out a 3 zone home system where you can put speakers into the wall or ceilings and it runs Bluetooth, streams from the net and can be controlled from a phone. All in its $3,200. It sounds nice but its over my head.
Amazon it shall be.

crankcall said:

Found a kit on Amazon, finest Chinese electronic engineering, has a transmitter, receiver with 2x40w built in amp and says its plug and play. $129.00 so a cheap enough risk.
I priced out a 3 zone home system where you can put speakers into the wall or ceilings and it runs Bluetooth, streams from the net and can be controlled from a phone. All in its $3,200. It sounds nice but its over my head.
Amazon it shall be.

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That's cheaper than my solution. Let us know how it works/sounds.

crankcall said:

I priced out a 3 zone home system where you can put speakers into the wall or ceilings and it runs Bluetooth, streams from the net and can be controlled from a phone. All in its $3,200. It sounds nice but its over my head.
Amazon it shall be.

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Can easily be done much cheaper than that. I've looked at them all and the different paths/options. After looking at everything and having the access to be reliable and easy enough for my wife to use we're going conventional wired HT and mixture of wired and Sonos in the other 3 zones. Picked up a used Sonos Connect and Bridge for $150 this week on kijiji so there's my streaming (Smart hooked to Alexa by a couple Amazon Dot v3 in the house) so all music and zones are by voice or App.
Grab a newer model B-stock Pioneer or Onkyo receiver through Gibbys Electronics (Pioneer VSX-LX303 in my case) that'll power 3 zones and works with Sonos (therefor will turn on/off using voice or App) and all zones can be controlled separately in the same way. For other areas run wires to be powered by receivers other 2+3 zones (new build so this is easy) or place a Sonos speaker in the area (whichever is convenient or aesthetic).