Hello Everyone!

[Altkr]

Planning to start riding again this year, wanted to say hi and possibly get some insights from everyone.

My profile bio has some info about me but I'm starting to ride again this year, my riding experience has mostly been on a 180cc bike back in India. I am aware riding here is different and needs a different set of skills so will try to take it easy in the beginning.

Current plans:
1. Get a used bike and store it inside the garage, do some maintenance or fixes as needed. Will most probably go for a 300-400cc supermoto or dual sport (I'm 6' and 210 lbs). Might need to get the bike delivered to me, please let me know if someone has a good used bike and/or pickup truck to deliver it to me.
2. Get M1 when weather gets good.
3. Get insurance, take the bike out, and ride for a bit. (might be expensive to begin with but should be worth it)
4. Apply for and get a full M in a month or so after getting M1. (too much confidence in my skills? Maybe. Driving history since 2007 has been incorporated in driving records fortunately, I'm allowed to directly apply for M license after getting M1)
5. Explore other bikes later based on driving experience and insurance costs then. Would love to try out Adventure Touring, Dirt Biking, and Superbikes to explore what my ideal/favorite riding style is.

I will lurk around the forums for more information but please let me know your thoughts about the plan or if I'm missing on something major.
Also, I'd be happy to volunteer some time on weekends (preferably near Durham region or east GTA) in case someone needs extra hands with their bike's maintenance, not an expert but can learn very very fast.

Thanks. Looking forward to your views and opinions.

 

[bigpoppa]

Planning to start riding again this year, wanted to say hi and possibly get some insights from everyone.

My profile bio has some info about me but I'm starting to ride again this year, my riding experience has mostly been on a 180cc bike back in India. I am aware riding here is different and needs a different set of skills so will try to take it easy in the beginning.

Current plans:
1. Get a used bike and store it inside the garage, do some maintenance or fixes as needed. Will most probably go for a 300-400cc supermoto or dual sport (I'm 6' and 210 lbs). Might need to get the bike delivered to me, please let me know if someone has a good used bike and/or pickup truck to deliver it to me.
2. Get M1 when weather gets good.
3. Get insurance, take the bike out, and ride for a bit. (might be expensive to begin with but should be worth it)
4. Apply for and get a full M in a month or so after getting M1. (too much confidence in my skills? Maybe. Driving history since 2007 has been incorporated in driving records fortunately, I'm allowed to directly apply for M license after getting M1)
5. Explore other bikes later based on driving experience and insurance costs then. Would love to try out Adventure Touring, Dirt Biking, and Superbikes to explore what my ideal/favorite riding style is.

I will lurk around the forums for more information but please let me know your thoughts about the plan or if I'm missing on something major.
Also, I'd be happy to volunteer some time on weekends (preferably near Durham region or east GTA) in case someone needs extra hands with their bike's maintenance, not an expert but can learn very very fast.

Thanks. Looking forward to your views and opinions.

welcome, Id say do step 2 and 3 before step 1. Step 4 wont work either, need an M2 for like 2 years or something before you are eligible for full M.

 

[Altkr]

welcome, Id say do step 2 and 3 before step 1. Step 4 wont work either, need an M2 for like 2 years or something before you are eligible for full M.

Thanks @bigpoppa , the thought behind step 1 going in first was that there might probably be better deals on used ones right now, but can be deferred I guess.
For step 4, the drive test people suggested I just take the M1 when the weather gets good and then immediately apply for M Test. Usually with G1 to G, with foreign experience, they allow for upto 2 tries to clear the test else you get G2 if you clear that part of the test. I haven't been able to find much info for M class but will keep everyone posted in case I find something. Did a quick search and found this confirming that it can possibly be done.

 

[voyageur]

Thanks @bigpoppa , the thought behind step 1 going in first was that there might probably be better deals on used ones right now, but can be deferred I guess.
For step 4, the drive test people suggested I just take the M1 when the weather gets good and then immediately apply for M Test. Usually with G1 to G, with foreign experience, they allow for upto 2 tries to clear the test else you get G2 if you clear that part of the test. I haven't been able to find much info for M class but will keep everyone posted in case I find something. Did a quick search and found this confirming that it can possibly be done.

The money you save by not going through M2 safety course will all be lost in insurance. One of the questions they'll ask you is if you did your safety course from an institute. Plus the institute usually got a selection of bikes you can take your course on. You just need the safety gear. Good luck!

 

[Altkr]

The money you save by not going through M2 safety course will all be lost in insurance. One of the questions they'll ask you is if you did your safety course from an institute. Plus the institute usually got a selection of bikes you can take your course on. You just need the safety gear. Good luck!

Thanks @voyageur , you bring up a good point, the only thing I need to make sure is that doing the course doesn't trigger getting an M2 license by default. That will push out my M licensing eligibility date ahead as I'd have to complete the mandatory waiting period in that situation. Will check this with DriveTest on Monday. Also, serching the forums it seems it can't be done after the fact as well. I think I'll first get my M1 and check some insurance scenarios with a few agents if the driving history does make any difference at all, won't be surprised in case it doesn't because it's Ontario.
Original plan was to take the M2 course, saving me the hassle of buying a bike before getting the license. I didn't know then that I could directly go for M test after my M1. I cancelled my training I had booked thinking that I'd have to get a bike anyway asI won't be able to rent one on anM1 license. Will probably re-evalute this after I get the M1.
Thanks again.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Welcome @Altkr!

I'm not sure that there is reprocity between India and Ontario when it comes specifically to motorcycle licences. A quick Google search turns up some info and a few message forum threads indicating that you will need to start over again for the M endorsement here.

Now, if you had a history of riding and insurance in India, the insurance companies here *may* (but the odds are very slim) give you some sort of insurance break (set your expectations low), but that's highly unlikely either.

So, I think the best advice is to get the motorcycle foundations M1 exit course booked somewhere ASAP (they fill up insanely fast here) and then as soon as that's done and confirmed, get ready to go get your M1 licence (just a written test) timed so that you have it in time for the class. Yes, this course isn't super cheap, but as was mentioned, many insurance companies will not even insure you here anymore if you don't have an M2 *AND* this course. It's basically impossible to find insurance as an M1 rider anymore no matter what, and if you do, you'll be paying insane rates.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but riding is an expensive hobby here.

Make sure to get insurance quotes on any motorcycle before committing to buying it to make sure that there are no surprises. The market is weird and a lot of beginners here buy motorcycles they only find out after the fact they can't afford to insure. Generally, low CC cruisers (600cc or under) are amongst the least costly options.

 

[Evoex]

Thanks @voyageur , you bring up a good point, the only thing I need to make sure is that doing the course doesn't trigger getting an M2 license by default. That will push out my M licensing eligibility date ahead as I'd have to complete the mandatory waiting period in that situation. Will check this with DriveTest on Monday. Also, serching the forums it seems it can't be done after the fact as well. I think I'll first get my M1 and check some insurance scenarios with a few agents if the driving history does make any difference at all, won't be surprised in case it doesn't because it's Ontario.
Original plan was to take the M2 course, saving me the hassle of buying a bike before getting the license. I didn't know then that I could directly go for M test after my M1. I cancelled my training I had booked thinking that I'd have to get a bike anyway asI won't be able to rent one on anM1 license. Will probably re-evalute this after I get the M1.
Thanks again.

Good advice given by all so far. I will say that occasionally I've seen people been allowed to skip the waiting period between M2->M based on their previous foreign experience.

As a motorcycle instructor I had a student this past season complete M1-M in the same week;

Wrote exam Friday for M1
Course to complete M2 on the weekend
Following Friday did full M

It all comes down to what the Drivetest/MTO says about your previous experience and what they are willing to do for you, as @PrivatePilot alluded to.

 

[Altkr]

Welcome @Altkr!

I'm not sure that there is reprocity between India and Ontario when it comes specifically to motorcycle licences. A quick Google search turns up some info and a few message forum threads indicating that you will need to start over again for the M endorsement here.

Now, if you had a history of riding and insurance in India, the insurance companies here *may* (but the odds are very slim) give you some sort of insurance break (set your expectations low), but that's highly unlikely either.

So, I think the best advice is to get the motorcycle foundations M1 exit course booked somewhere ASAP (they fill up insanely fast here) and then as soon as that's done and confirmed, get ready to go get your M1 licence (just a written test) timed so that you have it in time for the class. Yes, this course isn't super cheap, but as was mentioned, many insurance companies will not even insure you here anymore if you don't have an M2 *AND* this course. It's basically impossible to find insurance as an M1 rider anymore no matter what, and if you do, you'll be paying insane rates.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but riding is an expensive hobby here.

Make sure to get insurance quotes on any motorcycle before committing to buying it to make sure that there are no surprises. The market is weird and a lot of beginners here buy motorcycles they only find out after the fact they can't afford to insure. Generally, low CC cruisers (600cc or under) are amongst the least costly options.

Thanks @PrivatePilot , I agree, Insurance is crazy but I'm okay paying upto 3k-4k ish per year rate between getting my M1 and M if I am able to get the insurance on M1 that is. I am 35 and if the history gets accounted for, it might be worth a gamble. If not, I will definitely head for M2 course. Also if the insurance doesn't change much between M1 and M, I might sell the bike and look for better alternatives after. Insurance definitely is subjective to different companies and how the interpret risks, worst case I'll have to pay more if I don't go with the course, and I think I'm mentally and financially prepared for that after the research. The previous message from evoex is giving me some hope on the possibility of that happening. Thanks again!

 

[Altkr]

Good advice given by all so far. I will say that occasionally I've seen people been allowed to skip the waiting period between M2->M based on their previous foreign experience.

As a motorcycle instructor I had a student this past season complete M1-M in the same week;

Wrote exam Friday for M1
Course to complete M2 on the weekend
Following Friday did full M

It all comes down to what the Drivetest/MTO says about your previous experience and what they are willing to do for you, as @PrivatePilot alluded to.

Thanks @Evoex , that would be amazing! I could not find this information anywhere, really appreciate it! If I am allowed to skip waiting period between M2-M, I am definitely doing it. Will definitely save a lot of insurance money in the long run. Really glad I joined this group!

 

[Altkr]

The plan now is to verify on Monday if I can do M2 training post M1 and still keeping waiting period waived off for M, as @Evoex mentioned is sometimes possible. If so, will get M1, do M2 course, obtain M2, and then finally try getting full M license. Thanks again everyone! Really appreciate the insights and guidance.

 

[PrivatePilot]

Also if the insurance doesn't change much between M1 and M

The difference in rates can be 100% of more (I've heard of 200-300% or more in some cases in the past) between M1 and M2/M. Many companies just won't insure you at all with an M1 now.

M2 to M usually has negligible effect for most people. It's 5 years of accident free riding experience under your M that has the most effect.

 

[Evoex]

The difference in rates can be 100% of more (I've heard of 200-300% or more in some cases in the past) between M1 and M2/M. Many companies just won't insure you at all with an M1 now.

M2 to M usually has negligible effect for most people. It's 5 years of accident free riding experience under your M that has the most effect.

I will add the real savings here is the safety course, not the upgraded license. I had a student last season who came with his M2 already. He did it at the MTO, passed then called for insurance, they laughed at him.

Some will insure you with M1 after you pass the course during the waiting probation or even as long as you can prove you've booked a course.

I have this M2-> M savings chat with all my classes;

"why doesn't the rate go down???"

So I ask, what does your M allow you to do that your M2 doesn't?

"drink and ride"

So if you were the insurer and someone called you asking for a rate reduction because now you can legally consume alcohol before throwing a leg over, would you decrease their rate based on 'risk'?

"oh. yeah, no"

 

[Altkr]

Thanks for the amazing guidance everyone @Evoex @PrivatePilot @voyageur and @bigpoppa , I have re-booked my M2 training for Apr 1st week after confirming with DriveTest that I do not have to wait for the M when I go for the M2 training route. Also confirmed with my insurance that they don't even insure people with an M1, and there is not much of a difference if any between M2 and M license annual rates. I do believe some insurance companies do account for the "First License Date" from the driver's extract, and will seek those once I have the M2 in hand in April or so. Holding off on buying a bike and gear for now as training people will provide the bike, and will just rent the gear for that week. Thanks again!

 

[John Brown - Desjardins]

Thanks for the amazing guidance everyone @Evoex @PrivatePilot @voyageur and @bigpoppa , I have re-booked my M2 training for Apr 1st week after confirming with DriveTest that I do not have to wait for the M when I go for the M2 training route. Also confirmed with my insurance that they don't even insure people with an M1, and there is not much of a difference if any between M2 and M license annual rates. I do believe some insurance companies do account for the "First License Date" from the driver's extract, and will seek those once I have the M2 in hand in April or so. Holding off on buying a bike and gear for now as training people will provide the bike, and will just rent the gear for that week. Thanks again!

When you are ready, I can help you with any insurance questions you have!

 

[voyageur]

Thanks for the amazing guidance everyone @Evoex @PrivatePilot @voyageur and @bigpoppa , I have re-booked my M2 training for Apr 1st week after confirming with DriveTest that I do not have to wait for the M when I go for the M2 training route. Also confirmed with my insurance that they don't even insure people with an M1, and there is not much of a difference if any between M2 and M license annual rates. I do believe some insurance companies do account for the "First License Date" from the driver's extract, and will seek those once I have the M2 in hand in April or so. Holding off on buying a bike and gear for now as training people will provide the bike, and will just rent the gear for that week. Thanks again!

To the best of my knowledge, if you are doing your M2 from drivetest they won't offer you a motorcycle. Only private institutes like MTOhp, Learning Curves, etc. provide access to a different variety of bikes for you to try out. Just mentioning if you're thinking of doing it at a drivetest centre as I believe they also have the option of testing for M2 just like M.

All the best!

 

[Altkr]

Thanks @voyageur , yes, I'm doing it through Rider Training at Scarborough location. I guess once I've done the M1->M2 course I can just walk in to drivetest and get the updated license. Not going for a test directly at Drivetest centre as planned earlier.

 

[Altkr]

Quick update for everyone, I got my training done last weekend, picked up my M2 on Monday, compared insurance options and bought a good condition CB650R, bought new gear, and looking forward to the riding season now!
Safety is pending, but it seems there shouldn't be much apart from a broken turn signal, and license plate light. Something I can fix myself.
Slight departure from the Supermoto I planned earlier but the numbers made more sense along with the feelings here .