Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle? | Page 11 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any GTAM'ers own an electric vehicle?

You do sum up the reasoning a lot of people use to discard EV's - this thread, as you mention, is an exemplary example of why people still don't consider them as an option.

I posted my test drive experience on Facebook last week and got a very similar response from some of my friends - "The electricity will cost you more than the gas" was the very first comment right out of the gate, and then the range anxiety issues (perfect example of the fact people don't understand range extended EV's), "The battery will be dead in a year or two" (perfect example of people that just assume such without checking the facts, although the dismal Honda reliability hasn't helped that perception) and others were amongst other reasonings people came up with why they'd never buy an EV.

So, basically, lack of understanding, perception, and misinformation is the biggest reasons people have to discount them.

As for the dash, that's a "in the eye of the beholder" thing I guess - I kind of liked it.

I did think that some of the center stack touchscreen menus were a little too overdone with whizbang (one could do without some of the animations that were constantly there when switching to different menus, specifically the energy/battery menus) but that's just me - I disable a lot of the animations on my cellphones and such as well as I'd personally rather just get from one menu to the next as quickly as possible - I don't need fancy animated transitions and such.

Anyhow, it's not a biggie.

The only thing I noticed that I didn't really like was that the seatbelt was tight to get into the vicinity of the buckle, but that had mostly to do with my ***-width vs seat-width ratio I think.
 
Brian P said:
BTW I saw a Bolt on the road in the Toronto area a couple days ago. I thought they weren't for sale in this area yet, but it had an Ontario plate on it.
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Dealer out my way got their first one on Monday.
 
@PP fyi Ikea has EV parking spots and I think plugs too.

It's too bad they did not give you the option to use an add on battery pack, meaning you can add in the trunk for daily use. If you know you will need to use the full capacity of your trunk then you remove it. Not sure how deep the trunk is, but something that is almost the width of the trunk and about 6 inches or so in height.
I wonder if someone retrofitted something like that.

btw- Is the Volt a 4 seater?

based on the numbers you are posting the Volt is the way to go for those doing a lot of km's.

What are the negative issues with the Volt? Any major problems for Gen 1 and 2?
rust issues?
 
-D- said:
It's too bad they did not give you the option to use an add on battery pack, meaning you can add in the trunk for daily use. If you know you will need to use the full capacity of your trunk then you remove it. Not sure how deep the trunk is, but something that is almost the width of the trunk and about 6 inches or so in height.
I wonder if someone retrofitted something like that.
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I think it comes back to the "Keep it simple" approach - the Volt is designed so that someone who has never driven an electric car in their life can get in it, put it in gear, and go, plugging in when it's convenient to boost the economy numbers through the roof, but still getting the owner from A to B the same as any ICE car in the meantime while achieving exceptionally good fuel economy while in that mode.

But, for those who are willing to maximize what the Volt can offer, you get this:

volt_52_miles.jpg


250 lifetime MPG. 0.9L/100K. And that's not the exception, there are LOTS of people averaging over 100+ MPG (2.3L/100K)

-D- said:
btw- Is the Volt a 4 seater?
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Yes.

-D- said:
based on the numbers you are posting the Volt is the way to go for those doing a lot of km's.
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The breakeven point between a Hybrid like the Prius has been well calculated -90 miles, or 144 Kilometers. If you are regularly driving more than 144 Kilometers between ability to recharge the battery, then a Hybrid may be a better choice.

I'm the first to admit that, but for those who regularly have the ability to charge and drive less than 144K in between such charges, the Volt wins. And if you can leverage to almost exclusively electric mileage, you are rewarded handsomely - see the above image again.

-D- said:
What are the negative issues with the Volt? Any major problems for Gen 1 and 2?
rust issues?
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They're known as remarkably reliable. There was a heater issue on 2013's that was corrected with a software update. A lot of people put cheap tires that hurt electric range when they came up for new rubber. Otherwise, there's nothing major I could ever find despite a lot of searching.
 
For anyone who wants an eye opener as to charging opportunities, checkout www.plugshare.com.

I'd bet most people will be surprised. I was.
 
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and even though I'm not looking I found myself looking into some Volts on the market. Once it's time to replace the car (either one) the Volt will definitely be under consideration.

Right now...it'd be stupid to trade in a paid off car (Civic) in order to get a different car just to get some fuel savings. The math would never work out on this one. But maybe in a year or two it'll be time to look into some different tech for the garage.
 
mimico_polak said:
I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread and even though I'm not looking I found myself looking into some Volts on the market. Once it's time to replace the car (either one) the Volt will definitely be under consideration.

Right now...it'd be stupid to trade in a paid off car (Civic) in order to get a different car just to get some fuel savings. The math would never work out on this one. But maybe in a year or two it'll be time to look into some different tech for the garage.
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not really

you have to do the math
sell the civic vs. cost of replacing with a Volt
you have to factor the gas savings as part of your "ROI" trading deal

e.g. If selling your Civic you get $10k and buying a Volt is $12k...how much in fuel will you save in 1 year (2 years)...another consideration...might you drive more and do more things since fuel costs is not really a factor...your quality of life just increased.

maintenance costs Civic vs. Volt
 
The math really depends on a lot of things though.

- Fuel economy of the existing vehicle, for us, at ~11K/100K, that's an easy one, but for someone like Mimico who's already got a more fuel efficient vehicle that math is tighter. There's still a saving to be had on something like a Volt which gets better mileage than a Civic, but the breakeven point may stretch out.

- In the case of the Volt, whether or not you can do your entire commute on electric alone, or will require the range extender and use a bit of gas. Electric only is obviously the biggest money saver. Mixing the two muddies the water a little. The Volt still wins, but again, the payoff extends every time you use gas to range extend.

- The availability of charging at your employer IF your commute is such that you wouldn't be able to make it home on battery as well without plugging in at work. Even access to a regular 110v plug, over an 8 hour work day, can allow you to get about a 60-80% recharge from empty on a Volt. I believe it's about 10-15K/hour on pure EV's like the Leaf, etc.

- How long you're willing to wait for the payoff. For us, with a potential payoff inside 12-18 months the math is clear, but for someone else looking at a longer pay off there is the decision to be made.

- If you were planning to buy a new car anyways. If Mimico's Civic blew up tomorrow, or was already nearing end of life and a new vehicle was already in the cards, if some of the above math works out for you that a slightly higher investment yields a long term savings, it's more justifiable.

I kind of look at the last bit (spending more to save long term) from the perspective of putting a new furnace in your house. Yes, you can buy the cheaper model that will yield predictable economy for it's lifetime, or you can spend extra on a premium ultra efficient model that will, over it's lifetime, save you considerably more than the original extra investment.

Further to that, how long you plan to keep the car matters as well - if you're someone who likes to trade cars every 1 or 2 years, it's not going to pay off...but again, using the furnace analogy, if you're planning to sell your home in the next few years and it needs a furnace, chances are you're not going to pop for the super premium model either as you'll never be around to benefit from the savings.
 
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Brian P said:
BTW I saw a Bolt on the road in the Toronto area a couple days ago. I thought they weren't for sale in this area yet, but it had an Ontario plate on it.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised at all. barely 3 months after launch, dealers that were hoping to command a premium for the Bold in California, instead are already offering $5k rebates "as deliveries are stalling"

If electric car capital of North America California don't want them, GM has no choice but to send them everywhere else well ahead of schedule.

https://electrek.co/2017/03/20/chevy-bolt-ev-discounts/
 
A lot of people online spreading misinformation, fear, uncertainty and doubt about EV's (*cough cough*) do sales a disservice, ultimately preventing people for whom a long distance EV like a Bolt would work perfectly (and save them a ton of money) from considering them.

Again, *cough*, using this thread as a great example.
 
I await the trumpeting of the Honda pure EV when it inevitably arrives. I'm sure all your FUD will suddenly evaporate and it'll be all unicorns, rainbows and butterflies.
 
SunnY S said:
I'm not surprised at all. barely 3 months after launch, dealers that were hoping to command a premium for the Bold in California, instead are already offering $5k rebates "as deliveries are stalling"

If electric car capital of North America California don't want them, GM has no choice but to send them everywhere else well ahead of schedule.

https://electrek.co/2017/03/20/chevy-bolt-ev-discounts/
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I think if the cars said Fiat/VW/SMART instead of GM they would sell more, lol.
The Volt, Bolt...next the Jolt?
 
PrivatePilot said:
A lot of people online spreading misinformation, fear, uncertainty and doubt about EV's (*cough cough*) do sales a disservice, ultimately preventing people for whom a long distance EV like a Bolt would work perfectly (and save them a ton of money) from considering them.

Again, *cough*, using this thread as a great example.
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If a Volt is right for you, go ahead and enjoy, just saying that the Market is speaking and people aren't buying. Clearly its not electric cars at this point for a number of reasons.


There will come a time when the electric car market will be ready for prime time (I estimate around 5-7 years from now from around 2025-2030), its just not right now.
 
Another thing to keep in consideration is that electricity rates don't very a lot, certainly not every night like gasoline prices do.


If 12, 24, 36 months from now we are paying $1.30/L again (never say never, all it takes is one wrong move by a certain unpredictable world leader, or someone in Saudi Ariabia to fart in the vicinity of an oil well) then the math changes even more (potentially dramatically) in favor of EV's. Electricity will certainly not have gone up by an equal amount, and even if it did the ratio still favours electricity with every percentage point simply based on the fact it's so much cheaper to begin with.

Ultimately higher gas prices will be the major motivating factor for most people inside the next 10 years. Simply look at the epic shift that happened towards smaller more fuel-efficient vehicles in the 2005 Dash 2008 price spike years. Only when the pricees crashed in 2008/2008 and again in 2014 did the sales of large in efficient vehicles surge again.
 
valid point re gas price fluctuation. I think it's reasonable to agree gas will not go below $1/L for us, only going up.
We are like the frog in the pot experiment when it comes to gas prices, slowly increases until $2/L seems like a deal.

@Sunny...the cars are ready, it's just the fear factor being pushed.
People with 2 cars...what is the average distance does each drive per day.
What is the average distance for most drivers?

Also, let's be honest. If the Volt looked better then maybe more interest (Volt always seemed ok to me, new ones look decent).

Just keep a long extension cord in your trunk, lol.
 
-D- said:
Also, let's be honest. If the Volt looked better then maybe more interest (Volt always seemed ok to me, new ones look decent).

.
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if you want to be honest, ppl don't care for sedans anymore no matter how they look. SUVs large and small are all the rage at this point. Even companies like Jaguar, Maserati, Lamborghini have or are bringing suv's to market. Subaru feeling left out is introducing a large Pilot like SUV. they haven't built an SUV in years!!
 
SunnY S said:
if you want to be honest, ppl don't care for sedans anymore no matter how they look. SUVs large and small are all the rage at this point. Even companies like Jaguar, Maserati, Lamborghini have or are bringing suv's to market. Subaru feeling left out is introducing a large Pilot like SUV. they haven't built an SUV in years!!
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Subaru=Toyota so that is Toyo capitalizing on loyal Suby owners to give them a similar product to keep them from leaving.

as for the SUV view, is that a regional view or North American view?
I guess CUV's are the new thing...btw, wth is the Venza...that thing is large, lowered minivan, lol
 
Some of it is just mid-information and the pubic needs very basic message.

For instance, electricity bills are out of hand in Ontario. You want to ask someone to charge their car every night? Even if they pay less in petro and show them the math, it's hard to convince the general public, they will save.

Also, you need product placement. Leo or whatever Kardashian bombing around in a Volt would give it rockstar status like the Prius had/has. Dang, Bieber or Depp just got a speeding ticket in a Tesla. Aren't they like $100 grand? Yeah, but they are making a cheaper model for the common folks like us. Yeah? When? It's coming soon!

I'm still concerned about real world results in a traffic jam, A/C on blast in a heatwave with the stereo on listening for the millionth time, you are stuck and there is no hope of things clearing up.

How about the range when i get some snow tires?

Idling diesel or petro vehicles are ok. Even when the gauge approaches empty, you can pull off at the next exit and toss in $10 or fill up or whatever.

EV range needs to be promoted to overcome those fears. It has a petro motor and can get you home. Wait. So it's a hybrid then? No, it's not.

Ok, I'm confused and will just get a Honda Fit or something else.

I'm just being devils advocate. Not saying what I wrote is true. But it's what the public thinks. And there is little to dispute that.

How much is this Volt gonna cost me up front? After I get a rebate, what does that mean I paid?

How much to get a charge station installed? The last electrician to install a dryer plug cost me a small fortune. Or replace my old fuse panel for a breaker panel was outrageous.

Man, that is a lot of up front cost to save daily. My accountant keeps saying I should put more money in RRSPs. I think this electric idea isn't looking so good right now.

And on it goes.

Anyways, this is a great thread and I think it's helping bring some clarity to the benefits and real world expectations of what an EV can do and the cost benefits to support.








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CruisnGrrl said:
I can see new construction coming with charge station in the garage
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It could make sense, but the only way it becomes common is if it was in the building code. I don't think is in the next NBC which means we won't see it in the OBC for at least a decade. I am sure builders will install it for you as an upgrade for a ridiculous price right now if you really want one.
 
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