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Bill 70 threatens trades
- Thread starter daught
- Start date
So you just prove the point ... it's more about reading the instructions and following them, rather than making stuff up on the fly .... whether licensed or not. But it doesn't make the floor warming kits difficult to install (assuming you have purchased an approved kit and not bunch of wires and a box from Alibaba for 40$ and free shipping ...)
Based on some of the responses in this thread, some without doubt feel proper trade certified technicians are perhaps unnecessary...and hey, probably overpaid.
That's awesome ... I think you just listed everything they say to NOT do in every kit I have looked at, before I purchased mine. I don't understand how that somehow makes it a valid argument that it is difficult and thus it should be only done by someone who is registered/licensed trade? Or what am I missing?
Not sure if they're all like this, but the show my friend was on, they went in a couple of days early and messed the place up worse, so that the fix would look better. Afterwards, they invoiced her for some of the stuff. I'll ask my friend if Holmes' wall is still around and where it is. He gets a good laugh every time he passes by it. As far as Carpenters, part of the problem is that they got into a trade war with the Lathers over Drywall, and won. There are so many varying degrees of carpentry skill, and it's such a varied trade now. Then look at Wonder mountain, and you'll see how the rush to get things done, sometimes gets in the way of doing it right. Same with the tinsmiths and the sparkys, as well, the trades have diversified into newer tech. Some electricians have spent the last few decades only pulling network wires, and made a good living at it.
Based on some of the responses in this thread, some without doubt feel proper trade certified technicians are perhaps unnecessary...and hey, probably overpaid.
No, that never happens ...
I don't see any of the motive power trades changing from compulsory to voluntary. If anything, the small outlying trades will be brought under the compulsory umbrella.
Based on some of the responses in this thread, some without doubt feel proper trade certified technicians are perhaps unnecessary...and hey, probably overpaid.
Some people do think that. Someone once told me: if you think a professional is too expensive, pay an amateur first. This is not to say that having your C of Q makes you a professional, on the contrary, I tell my apprentices: that's when you really begin to learn.
Does that mean that they're only grunt labour until they're certified, or do they actually get to learn the job before they become journeymen? I've seen many mechanicals come in an cut ceiling hangars to put in pipes, ducts, electrical, after they were supposed to be done. I've also seen carpenters laminating drywall onto concrete pound a conduit flat instead of furring out around it. Not to mention jouneymen who would finish what they were told to do, and then stare out the window until the foreman came back, instead of being able to read and follow the drawings.
matt365
Well-known member
Good question.
Stair framing, roof framing, structural and non structural supports. Building code. Foundations, footing calculations. Print reading. Steel stud framing. Interior finishes. Site safety, heavy crane lifts. Poured & icf foundations. Concrete forming (including monolithic and continuous pours) skyscraper stuff...
There is more, but that is off the top of my head.
matt365
Well-known member
There is a lot more math than most would expect. Cut and fill for excavations. Concrete volume calculations. Span calculations for laminated beams.
Engineered building materials such as glu-laminated beams, LvL, psL, veneer beams.
Steel beam calcs.
Site planning. Transits, total station, lasers.
Snow load calculations for roofing.
Engineered building materials such as glu-laminated beams, LvL, psL, veneer beams.
Steel beam calcs.
Site planning. Transits, total station, lasers.
Snow load calculations for roofing.
The failure rate of floor warming systems is extremely low, a small fraction of a percent but it can cost a bundle when it happens especially if it can't be repaired. Priced Brazilian rosewood lately, butterfly matched onyx floor tile, some weird fossilized material mined from the Adriatic seabed? Seen them all.
The legality issue in so many cases is ridiculous. An upholsterer can't unplug and remove a lighted sun visor from a car unless he is a licensed mechanic. Fine $10K to the shop.
Unless you are a licensed electrical contactor you can only work on your own home but must get a permit to change a light switch or hang the new light fixture. A licensed auto mechanic who knows how to tighten screws can't keep his grandmother safe from falling down the stairs in the dark by changing a broken switch.
A handyman working for a charity can do just about anything on their building.
Theoretically, a license tells people you know it all. No license is a crap shoot.
When I had my shop the unit next door blew their main transformer and out of curiosity I took a look. It was 600/300 3 phase. They had been running their 208 volt stuff on 300. I met their electrician later and he told me how well trained he was. Back home he took the two week course not the quick three day one.
The classic is when a guy buys a replacement duplex receptacle at Home Depot and installs it carefully putting every wire in the same place as the old one. Easy Peasy. When he turns the breaker back on it immediately trips.
I was approached to design an electrical snow melting system for a mall roof. They wanted to make internal changes that would reduce their snow load factor and having snow melting seemed a good idea.
When do you have a high likelihood of power failure?
Maybe during a snow storm?
Caution: Genius at work.
Oh man, I hope that doesn't scare anybody away from the carpentry trade. When I was in high school they steered all the dummies to the trades.
Pshaw. I'm sure that guy advertising on Kijiji learned all that from those YouTube videos and Google University. And he can probably do the job for 30% less than you overpaid licenced and educated trade guys. Probably overpaid union guys too, all lazy *****.
/sarcasm
//I respect the trades
What was the designation?
Hey, I could probably park trucks for some people too, although I respect those who can do it well.
Meh, it's mostly grade 9 & a little grade 10 math. Fractions, addition, subtraction. 3,4,5 principle. In imperial units. Metric hasn't come to some trades yet, and may never do so.
I've been a commercial site supervisor for 16+ years with successful projects ranging in value from 1- 25 million under my belt. In my opinion , you are exactly right. The OCT is just another level of g'vt that does very little other than collect money from workers.
We work mainly on provincially funded projects, schools etc. The Ontario government itself is their own worst enemy. By mandating competitive low biding they are, in a sense, encouraging their own contractors to use unqualified trades.
From what I've witnessed, the OCT is an enforcement body. They come to jobsites only when there are complaints, which are usually from disgruntled workers. As far as I know, they do nothing to promote apprenticeships or training.
The list of "compulsory" trades is a joke. Ironworkers, Rodmen, Carpenters, Masons, Glazers are listed as "voluntary". These are the guys that build the structure of the schools your kids go to. Most of our jobs are loadbearing masonry projects. Not here to offend anyone, but masons are some of the worst in the business.
It is my view that the money spent on running and implementing the OCT would be much better spent on improving vocational education in Ontario. We need to get more young people interested in working in the trades. We need to get the shops back in high schools. We need to improve our apprenticeship programs.
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