Second thread this week gone full retard. Don't know whether to lol or cry.
|
|
|
Does a lounder exhaust save lives?
- Thread starter -JERICHO-
- Start date
PLau
Well-known member
TLDR;
But... Loud pipes won't save you going through an intersection or someone pulling out in front of you. Other than that, just ride defensively and stay out of blind spots for extended periods of time.
Most people I know that get a loud exhaust is because they like the sound. No point in making excuses like "This exhaust is going to save my life one day" to justify that decision.
The number of lives saved by learning how to ride defensively vs number of lives saved by having an obnoxiously loud pipe wouldn't even be comparable.
But... Loud pipes won't save you going through an intersection or someone pulling out in front of you. Other than that, just ride defensively and stay out of blind spots for extended periods of time.
Most people I know that get a loud exhaust is because they like the sound. No point in making excuses like "This exhaust is going to save my life one day" to justify that decision.
The number of lives saved by learning how to ride defensively vs number of lives saved by having an obnoxiously loud pipe wouldn't even be comparable.
Why because you have to pay to read information? That is ridiculous. We pay for text books when we go to University. Those are hundreds of $$ each, while these articles are $30ish each. If you don't want to pay.. don't. But the info is there. The point of providing those sites was not to link to the articles but to allow curious minds to do their own searches with their own words. Underneath each website I added the article that I read to help me come to my own conclusion. Compared to a google search which yields nothing but fluff used to generate ad revenue, which you support because you lose no $$ out of pocket. So if you wanted to you could look up facts to negate what I am saying. I would appreciate that.
How humans localize sound is the most important factor in this entire argument. There is no refuting it. We evolved to be able to do this. Now because its a motorcycle, all other stimulus "Real world vehicles/exhausts, traffic, weather and topography" trump a well known and understood principal. We can detect things with sound. Even with many distractions. A louder exhaust emits more sound, offering more information to our brains to locate and detect an object. Simple. Those studies that no one wants to pay for VERY CLEARLY state within them HOW, WHY.. The information is not free, but it does exist. Costing $$ DOES NOT take away from the validity. Anyone who really WANTS to know can, by doing some reading, everyone else just has an opinion to offer, with little to no insight on the mechanisms involved in your body. I came into this not caring which side was true, but upon learning, it seems silly to pretend it isn't because of prejudice. I was not about to spend a large amount of $$ on something that would offer me nothing. So I took the research a little more seriously than the average Joe. $60 in research papers to know that my $800 going to an exhaust would be worth it.
As for the "would probably disqualify". That would depend entirely on which study you were talking about. Some have more relevance to this issue and some only have marginal relevance. Either way however the principal behind this argument stands. There are a TON of tests on this. Wikipedia has a pretty good bunch of free information, but its not as thorough.
Fastar1 is exactly right. Simple logic can resolve this. I would also suggest, simple prejudice keeps people from accepting a great many things as well.
:agave:
http://www.quora.com/Why-do-researchers-have-to-pay-to-read-research-papers
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/information-culture/why-are-journals-so-expensive/
http://www.nature.com/news/open-access-the-true-cost-of-science-publishing-1.12676
Last edited:
To a degree, sometimes there's no relation between two subjects; in this case it's obvious. But as you can see, there are a few members who would argue otherwise for...I guess the sake of arguing?
I'm not trying to produce evidence, that's the cult of science that's impeding the discussion again. The question probably can't even be answered with scientific rigour anyway.
I'm reasoning some basic premises and applying the rules of logic to come to a conclusion about the question. So while some may disagree with my conclusion, it will be up to them to identify which premise(s) they disagree with, or the flawed logic I've used.
Absolutely agree with you! I personally do not believe loud pipes save lives. Before I started riding a motorcycle, if I heard what sounded like one, it meant nothing to me. Now, if I think I hear the sound of a motorcycle, I'm looking around to: 1) see where it is; 2) see if it's someone I may know; and 3) see what type of motorcycle it is.
My own theory is that to the person who does not know a motorcyclist, or has no interest in motorcycles, obnoxiously loud pipes are just that; obnoxious.
Sure it can, and it has, but it didn't give you the answer you wanted. While you have your dictionary open, look up the meaning of "logic" and "prejudice".
Terms like "common sense" and "logic" are typically used by people in arguments when reality isn't going their way.
The inconvenient truth is that the #1 demographic of bike deaths right now is 45+ riders on straight pipe cruisers.
The other inconvenient truth is that electric motorcycle riders don't claim any more accidents than ICE bike riders.
Venom01
Well-known member
I find that it's mainly people who claim it's for saftey actually just like loud pipes because they like the sound of a loud bike. They fall back on the "saves lives" because they do believe actually believe it. What gets me is they just don't come out and say "I love having my bike loud". Why throw the saftey line around instantly? If someone asks you why is your bike so loud just tell them it's because you like it. Don't hide behind the safety thing.
I doubt most people change their exhaust right away under the guise of "it's safer". It's more then likely "I want to make it scream!, and I think it's safer".
I see the point in a better sounding exhaust. Louder just to make more noise though? no.
If you're standing still in traffic and your window is rolled down..you MIGHT hear the bike if you're really paying attention and know to look out for bike noise. Just like, i have a subaru and i can spot a subaru rumble easily... as my brain has been sensitized to it. But to the common driver, they don't know/don't care, its just traffic noise. So it's really what they SEE that makes that makes a bigger difference.
If you're standing still in traffic and your window is rolled down..you MIGHT hear the bike if you're really paying attention and know to look out for bike noise. Just like, i have a subaru and i can spot a subaru rumble easily... as my brain has been sensitized to it. But to the common driver, they don't know/don't care, its just traffic noise. So it's really what they SEE that makes that makes a bigger difference.
That actually makes sense.
Perhaps someone should engineer a 360 degree sound system playing this safety tone at 100Db.
-Maverick-
Well-known member
Saved a student of mine yesterday. SUV with reverse lights on ready to back up onto her on a 250 Ninja. I blocked the back of the SUV and rattled the inside of it with + 100 db.The new rider never even saw the reverse lights. No doubt loud pipes save lives. Just use earplugs or you'll suffer rider fatigue.
While I wear some hi Viz, I don't actually notice any difference. Where you become invisible is going much faster than the pace of traffic.
I have definitely noticed that people who drive large SUVs and trucks see you and don't care, they bought entitlement and they will risk your life because they feel safer in their truck (which is ironic, since they get into more crashes). In the past, this used to be Volvo drivers.
Unnecessary.
Important parts of our experience with sound involve diffraction. The fact that you can hear sounds around corners and around barriers involves both diffraction and reflection of sound. Diffraction in such cases helps the sound to "bend around" the obstacles. The fact that diffraction is more pronounced with longer wavelengths implies that you can hear low frequencies around obstacles better than high frequencies. A common example of diffraction is the contrast in sound from a close lightning strike and a distant one. The thunder from a close bolt of lightning will be experienced as a sharp crack, indicating the presence of a lot of high frequency sound. The thunder from a distant strike will be experienced as a low rumble since it is the long wavelengths which can bend around obstacles to get to you. There are other factors such as the higher air absorption of high frequencies involved, but diffraction plays a part in the experience.
You may perceive diffraction to have a dual nature, since the same phenomenon which causes waves to bend around obstacles causes them to spread out past small openings. This aspect of diffraction also has many implications. Besides being able to hear the sound when you are outside the door, this spreading out of sound waves has consequences when you are trying to soundproof a room. Good soundproofing requires that a room be well sealed, because any openings will allow sound from the outside to spread out in the room - it is surprising how much sound can get in through a small opening.
Although the sound emitted from a bike/car/truck is never usually aimed forward, the sounds they make do find their way to our ears. Barring any health issues with hearing.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hph.html
Cool story but...
A truck is backing up and the rider wasn't looking at the rear of the vehicle, then you had enough time to block the back , then make noise. And the solution is LPSL? These threads always end up in convoluted stories like this.
Here's another story...
[video=youtube;eaSR0BQPNMw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaSR0BQPNMw[/video]
Hipster loud BMW, no mirrors, no signals, no horn, because cool. The car comes into his lane on a collision course. Does he move? Nope. Use the horn (which faces forward)? Nope (took it off). He twists the throttle because LPSL, and finally brakes to avoid getting hit.
Or you could use the part on your bike that is designed to make noise like this. I believe there's a button for it on the left.
|
|
|
|
|