Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

Were you the one that asked a question about M1 on highways recently?

You deliberately disobeyed the conditions of your licence type, and on top of that got into an accident because you failed to adjust your riding because of the weather conditions. I hope you can pay for the damage of their car out of pocket, would be a lot cheaper than going through insurance.
 
Were you the one that asked a question about M1 on highways recently?

You deliberately disobeyed the conditions of your licence type, and on top of that got into an accident because you failed to adjust your riding because of the weather conditions. I hope you can pay for the damage of their car out of pocket, would be a lot cheaper than going through insurance.

It's too late for that. Cops know and the car contacted their insurance company. OP is hooped if they planned on continuing riding.
 
You blew it about as bad as anybody I have ever read about. Seriously should consider getting into dirt bikes and at least by the time you are allowed to get another learner permit you will at least know how to ride the things.
 
OP do not expect to get your bike covered in any way by your insurer, FYI. Even if you have collision, you violated a statutory condition on the policy (authority to drive); your insurer will not cover the damages to your vehicle.

Keep in mind if the other person decides to sue for injuries (which they are eligible to do so in this case), your liability policy will only pay out $200,000 (minimum limits in Ontario), and your insurance company will turn around and sue you for the amounts they pay out. This is assuming the damages assessed for injuries are less than $200,000.

That's an unusual post in that it isn't a first post rant or sell job. It also makes scary sense and sounds factual.

In reality how often does an insurer sue a client for something like this?

The authority to drive is an interesting term. How would it apply if you loaned your vehicle to someone who had a license in their possession but it was invalid, suspended in absentia, M-1 / G-1 and took a 400 series and they had a crash?
 
OP can make an offer to the other party to personally pay for their damage. Then they may fall under this:

Insurers can no longer use a minor at-fault accident that occurs on or after June 1, 2016 meeting certain criteria to increase your premiums. The criteria include that no payment has been made by any insurer, that there are no injuries, and that damages to each car and property were less than $2,000 per car and were paid by the at-fault driver. This provision is limited to one minor accident every three years.

As the report is on file, the insurer may still decide to cancel the policy due to this collision occurring during a violation of license conditions.
 
Yelling that the insurance company will refuse to pay is agreed, unlikely. It’s not a multi-million dollar lawsuit, it’s a fender bender.

Yes, if the OP can convince the other party to allow him to pay, the above clause may avoid an insurance penalty because of the collision, so that’s a good call. Hopefully the OP sees it in time.

However that will not negate the fact that he was charged under the highway traffic act with breaching the conditions of his license class. That said, the insurance company may (or may not, is that considered a major or a minor?) still penalize him for that.

Interesting.
 
Man that situation you got in sucks.
 
Hello all,
I'm not saying much about what I've done since the accident because I think it's prudent to avoid giving many details in a public forum dedicated to a specific user group, but I am reading comments and thankful for users' advice. Some seem to be drawing conclusion based on untrue assumptions.

I am interested in the post of FLSTC:

OP can make an offer to the other party to personally pay for their damage. Then they may fall under this:

Insurers can no longer use a minor at-fault accident that occurs on or after June 1, 2016 meeting certain criteria to increase your premiums. The criteria include that no payment has been made by any insurer, that there are no injuries, and that damages to each car and property were less than $2,000 per car and were paid by the at-fault driver. This provision is limited to one minor accident every three years.

As the report is on file, the insurer may still decide to cancel the policy due to this collision occurring during a violation of license conditions.

Can I ask what document you got this from?
Thanks.
 
Guy who hit me had a cop in the courtroom looking out for his best interest, that's what you need!
... I have no idea if he was a friend relative or a hired gun.
 
The Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO) -

The note above is from this page: https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_changes10.aspx




FSCO regulates the insurance sector; pension plans; loan and trust companies; credit unions and caisses populaires; the mortgage brokering sector; co-operative corporations in Ontario; and service providers who invoice auto insurers for statutory accident benefits claims. FSCO is accountable to the Minister of Finance.

 
<edit> possibly "driving the vehicle while disqualified from doing so" may be the clause where your insuror may deny coverage.


https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_autoins.aspx#a5


Exclusions in Standard Auto Policy




  • Your insurance company is allowed to deny payment for loss or damage caused to the vehicle in an accident, if you or anyone you let drive your vehicle:
      • was unable to maintain proper control of the vehicle because you (or he and she) was driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; or
      • is convicted of one of the following Criminal Code offences (or any similar offences under any other law in Canada or the United States) relating to the use, care, or control of the vehicle:
        • causing death or injury by criminal negligence,
        • dangerous operation of a vehicle,
        • failure to stop at the scene of an accident,
        • driving a vehicle when impaired or with more than 80 mg of alcohol in the blood,
        • refusal to provide the police with a breath sample,
        • causing injury when driving a vehicle while impaired or with over 80 mg/100ml of alcohol in the blood, or
        • driving the vehicle while disqualified from doing so.
Except for certain accident benefits, there is no coverage for anyone, including passengers, if:


  • Your vehicle is driven by a person without your consent, or by someone specifically excluded from your policy by the OPCF 28A (Excluded Driver Endorsement).
  • The vehicle is used to carry explosives or radioactive materials.
  • The vehicle is used as a taxicab, bus, or sightseeing vehicle, or to carry paying passengers such as with a ride-sharing service.
    • If you are intending to participate in a ride-sharing service as a driver, you should check with your auto insurance representative to ensure you have proper insurance that protects the driver, passenger and others.
 
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That's an unusual post in that it isn't a first post rant or sell job. It also makes scary sense and sounds factual.

Thank you - I do this for a living, so I'm very familiar with this process.

In reality how often does an insurer sue a client for something like this?

As soon as a judgment is awarded in the event of a trial, or as soon as a settlement is agreed upon between the plaintiff and the insurer; at which point they will put OP on notice, and can take a number of actions:

1) demand payment up front, or in a structured manner.
2) send OP to collections.
3) Put an administrative fine via MTO on OP's license until the amounts have been paid.
4) Put a lien on any assets owned by the OP.

From experience, 2) and 4) are the most likely outcomes for amounts under $50,000 and amounts over $50,000

The authority to drive is an interesting term. How would it apply if you loaned your vehicle to someone who had a license in their possession but it was invalid, suspended in absentia, M-1 / G-1 and took a 400 series and they had a crash?

It depends on what you commit to in a statement. Understand that if it ever gets to the point of litigation and you're dragged into Discoveries, you'll be put under oath, so you'll have to commit to your statement.

Essentially, when you lend your vehicle to someone, you are essentially lending your insurance that goes along with the vehicle as well. Despite this, case law exists that says if you had grounds to believe your friend was appropriately licensed (for example, you see him ride his bike all the time; you guys go cruising on the highway together), a trier of fact is likely to side with you and your belief that your friend had a valid license. In this case, your insurer will pay up to your full liability limits, and pursue your friend for the amounts paid out by pursuing one of the four above-mentioned options.

Yelling that the insurance company will refuse to pay is agreed, unlikely. It’s not a multi-million dollar lawsuit, it’s a fender bender.

Yes, if the OP can convince the other party to allow him to pay, the above clause may avoid an insurance penalty because of the collision, so that’s a good call. Hopefully the OP sees it in time.

However that will not negate the fact that he was charged under the highway traffic act with breaching the conditions of his license class. That said, the insurance company may (or may not, is that considered a major or a minor?) still penalize him for that.

Interesting.

Interestingly enough, the most minor of fender-benders result in the most egregious and frivolous law suits. You can't correlate dollars in physical damage to dollars in injuries - in fact, there's a whole industry dedicated to the idea that the extent of physical damages is not a predictor of the extent of an injury (they're called personal injury lawyers). Whether they actually had injuries or not is one thing - whether OP's insurer can prove a lack of injuries is a different story altogether. Typically, the costs to litigate something like this is $10,000-15,000 right off the get-go; even if it's a meritless claim, OP's insurer will seek these litigation costs directly from OP.

The insurance company will not pay out on OP's first-party claim if he decides to put one forward. More importantly, the insurance company will take an aggressive position against the OP because he violated a statutory condition, and offer him no liability coverage should the other party claim injuries.

On another note, the third-party has 2 years to file a 'Statement of Claim' with the courts, and 180 days from the date of filing to serve this to the OP. So the OP may not find out whether or not the other person is suing for injuries up to 2.5 years later. People's financial positions change in a period of 2 years...

<edit> possibly "driving the vehicle while disqualified from doing so" may be the clause where your insuror may deny coverage.


https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_autoins.aspx#a5

You are 100% correct.
 
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Ooooooo another whole bunch more scary stuff right there, yep, you need the same cop that wrote up the incident, to go into the court room and help you through the entire process just like the guy who hit me had.



so are my motorcycle insurance rates going to go up because of this?
 
Thanks for that post Throttle. I have to say that reading it made me feel panicked like I haven't for a long time. A claim of injury by the other party would be sort of ridiculous, based on the difference of momentum because me and him, the marginal damage to his vehicle, and his behaviour since, but I will try to make sure that there is no chance of my life becoming a nightmare.
 
Sorry Throttle to respectfully disagree. The OP was NOT "disqualified" from operating the vehicle at the time of the collision. He was indeed violating one of RESTRICTIONS placed upon him by the class of licence he holds. Disqualified is reserved for those who have been suspended or disqualified.

As for the FSCO, clause that, "may" help the OP firstly, I would suspect his damages exceed $2000. As for the vehicle he hit, it would depend upon what was damaged, just because the OP only seen a "crack in the bumper" doesn't mean that is the full extent of the damages. Also with higher end vehicles, it is VERY easy to exceed $2000. A friend JUST got a VERY minor bump from behind in her Mercedes. EXTREMELY small scratch on bumper. The estimate she got yesterday, (after advising it wasn't likely going through insurance, was $800) tell the body shop it is an insurance job triple that estimate...

<edit> possibly "driving the vehicle while disqualified from doing so" may be the clause where your insuror may deny coverage.


https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/brochures/Pages/brochure_autoins.aspx#a5


Exclusions in Standard Auto Policy




  • Your insurance company is allowed to deny payment for loss or damage caused to the vehicle in an accident, if you or anyone you let drive your vehicle:
      • was unable to maintain proper control of the vehicle because you (or he and she) was driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; or
      • is convicted of one of the following Criminal Code offences (or any similar offences under any other law in Canada or the United States) relating to the use, care, or control of the vehicle:
        • causing death or injury by criminal negligence,
        • dangerous operation of a vehicle,
        • failure to stop at the scene of an accident,
        • driving a vehicle when impaired or with more than 80 mg of alcohol in the blood,
        • refusal to provide the police with a breath sample,
        • causing injury when driving a vehicle while impaired or with over 80 mg/100ml of alcohol in the blood, or
        • driving the vehicle while disqualified from doing so.
Except for certain accident benefits, there is no coverage for anyone, including passengers, if:


  • Your vehicle is driven by a person without your consent, or by someone specifically excluded from your policy by the OPCF 28A (Excluded Driver Endorsement).
  • The vehicle is used to carry explosives or radioactive materials.
  • The vehicle is used as a taxicab, bus, or sightseeing vehicle, or to carry paying passengers such as with a ride-sharing service.
    • If you are intending to participate in a ride-sharing service as a driver, you should check with your auto insurance representative to ensure you have proper insurance that protects the driver, passenger and others.
 
On further research - the insurance act does not define ‘disqualified’ neither does HTA. The HTA does contain the reference to being ‘disqualified’ and this is as HEDO says, i.e. it’s a type of explicit license suspension where you may not have the license and a judge is specifically ruling that you are not eligible for a license for a period of time.

Hence OP is covered by his liability and DCPD coverage, notwithstanding that his insuror may try to weasel out of it should a claim be made.

Personally, I’d try to pay the other party’s damages. May be difficult if he’s taken it to a shop already - as noted above, the shop would most likely ask for addititional $ for estimation, etc to increase their profits. Better for the shop to get paid by the other party’s insuror.

If that is already in play, then OP has to consider whether he’ll claim his own damages from his own insuror to fix his bike. He’d be tagged with an at-fault due to the other party’s claim, and not claiming on his own policy would not change future rate assessments. Possibly may impact future renewals or new policy underwriting if he wants to switch companies. OP should ask his broker/agent for advice on this.


[h=4]When driver may be disqualified[/h]45 A provincial judge or justice of the peace by whom a person is convicted of a contravention of this Act, if the person convicted is required to hold a driver’s licence and does not hold the licence, may declare him or her disqualified to hold a licence for the time that the provincial judge or justice of the peace thinks fit and shall so report with the certificate of the conviction to the Minister. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 45.
 
Holy crap, as a current M1 holder until July 23rd, I've been tempted to ride at night or take the highway.... Not anymore! This has opened my eyes lol
 
? Do you have a copy of the accident report ?
From what I seen; no matter what you are charged with be ready to plead guilty to a lesser charge. You need a long list of lesser charges that might fly when it goes before a judge, the first one might not fly, doesn't have to make sense it just has to be accepted by the court so try another.

'Failure to yield' <- seems to be the sanitized way of saying you crashed into somebody.
 
Also OP Be prepared for this...

Novice-driver violations

Drivers holding G1, G2, M1 or M2 licences must follow the specific rules for their class of licence. If you violate any of the graduated-licensing conditions for your class of licence, your licence will be suspended for 30 days. This suspension takes effect from the time you surrender your licence on or after the date of the suspension. You can lose your licence for up to two years if you fail to hand over your licence.

Now if you also hold a G or for that matter ANY other class of licence, you won't be able to drive for 30 days during the suspension, (it is your LICENCE which is suspended not just the class of licence.

Beyond all the other implications to your insurance, a licence suspension will also screw you for the next three years, as you will have to answer, has your licence been suspended. So if you also have car insurance expect to take a big hit there as well.
 
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Sorry Throttle to respectfully disagree. The OP was NOT "disqualified" from operating the vehicle at the time of the collision. He was indeed violating one of RESTRICTIONS placed upon him by the class of licence he holds. Disqualified is reserved for those who have been suspended or disqualified.

Section 8 of the OAP-1 lists statutory conditions. OP would have violated 4(1) - authority to drive:

"The insured shall not drive or permit any other person to drive or operate the automobile unless the insured or other person is authorized by law to drive or operate it."

OP did not have authority to drive on a 400 series highway. He is not qualified to operate a motorcycle on the highway.

On further research - the insurance act does not define ‘disqualified’ neither does HTA. The HTA does contain the reference to being ‘disqualified’ and this is as HEDO says, i.e. it’s a type of explicit license suspension where you may not have the license and a judge is specifically ruling that you are not eligible for a license for a period of time.

Hence OP is covered by his liability and DCPD coverage, notwithstanding that his insuror may try to weasel out of it should a claim be made.

OP cannot be covered under DCPD because DCPD requires you to be not-at-fault for the accident.

Since OP has breached a statutory condition, liability exposure becomes limited to the minimum legal amounts ($200,000) to which his insurer will pay, and collect from OP.

Personally, I’d try to pay the other party’s damages. May be difficult if he’s taken it to a shop already - as noted above, the shop would most likely ask for addititional $ for estimation, etc to increase their profits. Better for the shop to get paid by the other party’s insuror.

If that is already in play, then OP has to consider whether he’ll claim his own damages from his own insuror to fix his bike. He’d be tagged with an at-fault due to the other party’s claim, and not claiming on his own policy would not change future rate assessments. Possibly may impact future renewals or new policy underwriting if he wants to switch companies. OP should ask his broker/agent for advice on this.


When driver may be disqualified

45 A provincial judge or justice of the peace by whom a person is convicted of a contravention of this Act, if the person convicted is required to hold a driver’s licence and does not hold the licence, may declare him or her disqualified to hold a licence for the time that the provincial judge or justice of the peace thinks fit and shall so report with the certificate of the conviction to the Minister. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 45.

The OP's license is not in effect when he rides his bike on the 400 series highway. There's no two ways about it.

233 (1) of the Insurance Act of Ontario - Where:


(b) the insured contravenes a term of the contract or commits a fraud, a claim by the insured is invalid and the right of the insured to recover indemnity is forfeited.


This includes first-party and third-party indemnification. so in this case, the OP cannot make a claim for damages on his own vehicle (via Collision coverage), and cannot look to his insurer to defend him for third-party damages (via Liability coverage).
 
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