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Woooo PC majority
- Thread starter LiNK666
- Start date
They've been cooking the books for longer than that. Ford said he's gone through the Auditor General's report, so it's not like he's walking in blindfolded. I'm afraid what's in it is only the low hanging fruit in a well camouflaged tree, though.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
They didn't need to deliver a fiscal plan, clearly voters decided that the promise of fiscal responsibility was sufficient. A fully costed plan was only an election issue for whiners on the loser's side of the vote - never for the winners.
Think about it, the costed plan is gonna have some fat boiled off, you know that. Hudak volunteered those details last election, all it did was create the uncertainty needed for Wynne to squeeze him out of a sure victory. I think the PCs learned from that blunder.
You mentioned you're not religious -- neither am I. Our last Premier led us into darkness, this one will lead us toward the light!
Blinding light it seems.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
These answers are a bit gritty, but they are on the right track. PSUs need to be reformed, they are so large and so powerful today that they don't serve their initial charter. Time have changed, when unions were first protected, workers had virtually no employment rights and were at the complete mercy of their employers. Over time, much of the stuff they fought for became common law, as they got these gains for free, they turned to using their leverage to hold employers hostage and to evade the free labor market.
There is no reason a high school teacher salary/benefits should be $50 in a private high school and $150/hr in a unionized public HS. Same with police -- $100K for a 24 year old with high school education - double the US average.
The opponents have 38.7% of the house seats including the Green party member. Wait and see, means we want to assess the situation and then make a plan. What's wrong with that approach?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The math is pretty easy -- divide annual compensation (including benefits) by hours worked. Remember, teachers are required to work 5.5 hour days x 183 days per year. If you worked at private sector company you would work 238 days per year x 8 hours per day or approx 1900 hours/year. That compares to approx 5.5 x 183 days or about 1000 hours per year for an Ontario high school teacher.
After 10 years, many high school teachers get close to $100K salary. The benefits package is pretty generous too -- 100% health care, prescriptions, 95% dental, free life insurance, 11 sick days (they use 12 on average), fantastic pension plan. Most teachers today can collect pension at 55, most will enjoy a pension for more years than they actually worked.
lol....it’s not a 5.5h day. Add the prep time and marking and administration. Pensions now are not the pensions they used to be. You seem a bit jealous of the teachers, I’m not actually sure you could hack the job. The last thing we should be doing is picking on the people we trust to educate our future.
ok...what’s wrong with every single party using that approach in the future at election time?
Mad Mike
Well-known member
It is 5.5 hours a day.
1300 minutes in class, 200 minutes prep and 80 minutes supervising (lunch, detentions etc). Do the math - it's really only 5.26 hours/day but I added in the 15 minute pre-arrival requirement (coffee time) to round off at 5.5hours.
Hack the job? I do the job. It's not easy, but it's also not long on hours. I'm just honest about how tough it really is.
Don't assume. Here's the wiki on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacit_assumption
The information commissioner faulted a government department for failing to come up with info on emails the first time around. The same department came forward on their own later to point out they in fact had some info. It was obviously a screw up by ministry staff and the reprimand was for them: “I remain saddened at the failure of (ministry) staff to dedicate adequate resources to provide accurate and complete information to my office”. The reprimand wasn't for politicians, not "Wynne's government" as reported in the article referenced in Wiki, and definitely not Wynne herself as you stated.
This demonstrates exactly how the truth has been deliberately manipulated to wear away at Wynne's public image in this election, since the exact same info was well known and topical in 2014 when she won a majority.
That particular amount of payout wasn't required, but some payout was required and they settled on $31 million to avoid arbitration. I'd agree that more than likely that was more money than they deserved as the election was coming up, the union had the leverage, and Wynne wanted the problem gone. But it's definitely not a $31 million "gift" as you say.
You also say she bought the last election with this stuff, even though it happened in 2018 and the only election she won was in 2014!
The bottom line is that no obstruction or boondoggle, or any of the things people apparently voted her out for, actually describe anything she did since she got in office. It was all just a very well orchestrated railroading of her character for this election. And future politicians will learn from this that it serves no good to be open, honest, and transparent when people vote based on this kind of garbage info.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Minister Kathleen Wynne, later Premier, signed the Cabinet directive to cancel the Oakville gas plant and payout the penalties. Needing Mississauga, she did this again 1 week prior to the election (she was McGinty's campaign chair). It exposes her character and penchant for vote buying.
In 2013 Ontario's Privacy Commissioner Ann Cavoukian said "Wynne government has provided inaccurate and incomplete information in my initial investigation. As a direct consequence of the incomplete response, the public has been misled…about the ability of staff to retrieve potentially relevant information.” Her quote -- not mine. Wynne signed the deals, she had carnal knowledge, it's hard to divorce her from the scandal.
Wrong again. As for the $31 million gift, that was after arbitration. All arbitration said was work something out -- other unions got a promise the practice will not be repeated, this union got $31mil gift or $2000/member right before an election. You figure it out.
You must know different teachers than I do. It’s a tough job....why not pick on other targets like nurses say? I keep seeing nurses and teachers driving round in luxury SUVs they must all be overpaid. I think there’s better targets for trimming the fat than the necessary components of a working and healthy society.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Nurses can make a lot of money, but to equal a teacher they're going to work double the hours. Like teachers, most nurses have zero professional experience outside nursing so they often overestimate the hardness of their work.
As for teachers, I'm not suggesting we reduce their pay -- I'd like to see their annual salary be based on a 37.5 hour week and 48 week work year. For $100K and a big benefit pack, they should be working a full week (not 25) and the work year should be 48 weeks -- not 39. Teachers that want to work in the summer get paid between $300 and $400/day on top of their salaries - why not make teaching 4 weeks of summer school part of the deal? Teachers in the private system work that way.
I thinks Cops make too much. Zero education required, at 22 you can earn $100K and have 3 weeks holidays and retire at 49 on a full pension and continue to dip pay duties.
What if we think you earn too much? Mind if we arbitrarily cut how how much you take home because we don’t like the idea of it?
Sorry you’re not making sense and going after the lowest hanging fruit. Teachers work many extra hours they aren’t paid for. Extramural sports, clubs, evening prep etc. Nurses literally clean up your **** and are invaluable resources in a hospital and care setting. All are trained professionals and you’re welcome to join them if you have the qualifications and are willing to put up with the crap they have to go through.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say the PCs won’t do any of the things you’re talking about...not unless they are big fans of riots.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
If you're in the private sector there's a good chance you're making a wage that's competitive and commensurate with your skills. Doesn't work that way in the public sector, particularly in the big union segments.
You're right, there's little chance of big changes, entitlement roll backs get you unelected - not going to happen.
No cop gets hired with no education and at 22, get your head out of your ***. And no idea where you got the 100k figure from, fresh cops get paid 50-60k usually. One of the most competitive jobs out there and your acting as if some brainless idiot from highschool can walk right into a position
If you're hired at 18 by 22 you'd be promoted enough to make 100k. In reality they 'prefer' applicants to have life experience. You have a better chance of being hired at 25+.
While it's true that a degree/2nd language/visible minority/female gets your resume to the top of the pile it's certainly not a requirement.
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