The thinking that the grid size is related to the spectator attendance is the problem.
Entertainment value is the question for spectators.
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2018 CSBK Predictions
- Thread starter bakaboy
- Start date
The thinking that the grid size is related to the spectator attendance is the problem.
Entertainment value is the question for spectators.
It might help keep people competing if their costs were offset more by bigger payouts that go farther down the grid but the money would have to at least triple for guys to break even. Unless you’re the one guy who makes a living at this...
Yes without a doubt. More racers would continue racing longer if more money was available.
However the question or more the inference that having larger grids leads to more attendees in the grandstands is not a strong relationship.
Having more entertainment for fans puts butts in the grandstand. Which can lead to more racer support programs which can help them stay and continue racing.
Effort to add to the entertainment to the fans is in the hands of the tracks. Local advertising. T-shirt giveaways. Ability to having connection to a racer. Good food that is available trackside. Retailers or motorcycle dealers trackside.
The entertainment value of a Motogp weekend fan versus a CSBK or regional race fan? It really doesn't matter if I'm sitting on the hillside at COTA or grandstand at SMP. I really don't get value if Vale or Szoke is leading the pack going by me. What's important is that I know who Whyte is or MM. I can interact with them in the paddock. I can drink a beer. Get good food. Go sit on a 2018 new Honda bike in the displays. Be entertained by close racing.
Until race series or tracks rethink that it costs money to make money.....
Completely agree.
I think it’s silly to say that having 5 bikes in a CSBK Pro Sportbike race doesn’t have an effect on fan entertainment value and turnout.
Lots of things could be done differently and lots of things could be done to entice more fans to come out. But who’s going to convince the manufacturers and vendors that they’ll see a reasonable ROI on their investment?
Lots of things could be done differently and lots of things could be done to entice more fans to come out. But who’s going to convince the manufacturers and vendors that they’ll see a reasonable ROI on their investment?
That's the beauty of things. We can all have a different opinion. So do tell how many Pro600 bikes need to be on a CSBK grid for the stands to be full of spectators?
For your reference:
2017 by round
SMP 16
GB: 18
StE: 14
ARL: 12, 12
CTMP: 23, 21
I went back and read what I wrote to make sure I didn't miss type. I didn't. You just wanted to try a logical fallacy argument. So let's play it the other way...will 50 bikes on the grid fill the stands?
Entertain the fan and the stands will have fans which allows for bigger grids.
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Are you intentionally being a dick or is it by accident?
You don’t have to go back very far in the results to see single digit entries in Pro Sportbike.
I don’t have the solution. Neither do you. You presented a magical fantasy in which manufacturers and vendors dump money into a weekend on the assumption that the fans will come and so will the $. If it’s that simple why aren’t they already doing it? You don’t think people have already approached them with these ideas and had luke warm, at best, responses?
The people with money don’t want to spend it. The people who want to spend the money don’t have any.
As a potential fan the big problem is the boredom factor at soar or csbk way too much wasted time beween races. Run the races back to back if the grid isnt ready too bad you miss your race. Run small to big bike sequential with the superbikes at the end. No one wants to sit around waiting for something to happen step up the pace and make things interesting.
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Huh? SOAR, RACE, and VRRA (which are all regional and/or club-level events) do run races back to back. The next riders are released from pre-grid as the previous race finishes coming in from the track. Awards are at the end of the day. There's normally a short break for the marshals mid-morning and mid-afternoon plus a one hour lunch break ... that's it.
CSBK is the one that has long delays between on-track activity, and it has always been that way, and other national or international level series do that, too. MotoAmerica (formerly AMA Pro Racing) same thing. World Superbike same thing. MotoGP same thing.
The only time i have been to a soar race there was way too much time between races as they were waiting for riders to get to the grid. Also being the only spectator makes time move slowly maybe free admission would be a way to get spectators out to regional events and build some interest for the sport. I might actually go check out the racing if it was free to get in. Seeing as there are no spectators now it would be worth a try.
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N3WMAN
Well-known member
Not sure why you included SOAR in that. They run 12 classes back to back with at most 5 minutes between the end of one race and the start of another, with pro superbike as the last race of the day.
If you attention span is not that long I don't know what they can do to help you.
Ok, I do understand why you feel that way. Really, I do.
But there are reasons why the races can’t be run so quickly. There needs to be a buffer in the schedule to account for events that may lead to delays. One oil clean up could take hours....
From a fans perspective it seems simple to shorten the breaks between races but from a racing logistics standpoint it’s just not feasible.
mbroyda
Well-known member
i dont know about that, i've raced a few rounds both in SOAR and RACE this past summer and things move very quick at least from a rider perspective. A lot more down time between races at CSBK.
I think one of the problems is that other than watching the race there isn't anything there to entertain people, no food, no beer tent (at regional races) no booths, not shows, not contests, no t-shirt giveaways, so unless the whole family is REALLY into watching racing there isn't a whole lot to do and they'll get bored quickly.
O I come by being a dick naturely.
But the problem remains that your logic does not float. And when challenged on it you have no response but to throw insults.
I cannot debate you as for the 2nd time you misrepresent what I said.
Doesn't matter. Your misguided view on action and effect or some other model, neither you or I control those aspects.
Grid size is irelavent.
Sponsor investment is where riders make their money. But no butts in seats....means no sponsors.
Last year and 2016 were perfect examples of that. Large grids for sbk and 600 and even 300 cup.
Didn't change the pay out.
Fact of the matter is...more fans and spectators = more pay outs for riders = more riders
TK4
Well-known member
Two words - Outside Sponsorship.
Back in the heyday of Canadian racing (think Picotte, Duhamel, Crevier and many others) there was oil, beer and cigarette money being put into the promotion and prize money payout sides of the business. Racers could earn a living.
Support class grids were huge because the opportunity to move up the ladder existed. Think 80-90 riders trying to qualify for an AM400 final.
Crowds were huge because the events were publicized well and people weren't staring at their phones or waiting to watch it on YouTube.
Currently the sanctioning body is responsible for bringing the show, the track owners are responsible for promotion and pocketing the gate.
It DOES NOT work.
CSBK aren't the only ones struggling, MotoAmerica isn't doing any better with a population base 10 times that of Canada's and a truly national series.
Find a way to get non-motorcycling businesses involved and you will have the key, until then its all just glorified regional racing.
Back in the heyday of Canadian racing (think Picotte, Duhamel, Crevier and many others) there was oil, beer and cigarette money being put into the promotion and prize money payout sides of the business. Racers could earn a living.
Support class grids were huge because the opportunity to move up the ladder existed. Think 80-90 riders trying to qualify for an AM400 final.
Crowds were huge because the events were publicized well and people weren't staring at their phones or waiting to watch it on YouTube.
Currently the sanctioning body is responsible for bringing the show, the track owners are responsible for promotion and pocketing the gate.
It DOES NOT work.
CSBK aren't the only ones struggling, MotoAmerica isn't doing any better with a population base 10 times that of Canada's and a truly national series.
Find a way to get non-motorcycling businesses involved and you will have the key, until then its all just glorified regional racing.
You responded with a reductio ad absurdum argument. If you’re going to respond like a dick then don’t get all butt hurt when people treat you like a dick.
Manufacturer contingency did increase last year. So yes, payouts did increase. You didn’t know that?
The system has stagnated. No one is stepping up and taking on the risk of investing their money. The fans aren’t taking on the risk of attending in hopes that the entertainment value will increase. The vendors aren’t taking the risk of investing many thousands into events in the hopes that the fans will show up.
The racers make financially idiotic decisions to keep racing with no support.
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