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Return of Ford Nation

Isn't Welfare Federal?

Part of the problem I have, is that there are many red Tories, that may have simply joined the wrong party to **** disturb.

Early on, people like Trudeau Sr. and many before him, found that they could either join a political party that perfectly meshed with their own ideology, or they could join one that could get elected, and then proceed to change it from within.
Welfare (social assistance) come in local form (Ontario Works), Provincial (ODSP) and Federal (EI).

What is a "red Tory"?
 
...Also...if you really are that concerned about freeloaders and want the best bang for your buck....plug tax loopholes for the rich.
It's always better to fix the sucking sounds (freeloaders) before the blowing sounds (rich).

The sucking never contribute, the blowing do.
 
Good chance the union folks will vote her in again... most for no reason other than their union told them to.

Ya know, some of us are independent thinkers and don't just automatically do what other people tell us to do.

Taxation is theft

Awesome, please move to an isolated cabin in the woods somewhere and live entirely off the grid and self sufficiently for the rest of your days then. Oh, unless you'd actually like to stay here with the rest of us and enjoy some of the niceties of civilization that taxes paid for?
 
Compulsory speech with allowed talking points then....hmmm. Sounds a bit commie.

Can also take this a little further...children are also elective so why should those without be forced to pay for such things as schools and education? After all...I don’t want to pay for your lack of use of birth control?

This politics stuff is awesome isn’t it?

Also I’m not serious but it’s an extension of the tired “I shouldn’t have to pay for freeloader” line.

Also...if you really are that concerned about freeloaders and want the best bang for your buck....plug tax loopholes for the rich.

1. Requiring educators to stick to curriculum, and not brainwash children without the consent of parents, is not a commie sentiment.

2. The education of youth is a benefit for all, not just the parents. Or would you rather have more generations of idiots running around lol. All jest aside, to me, supporting education is more about further advancing society as a whole and less about providing free daycare. I don't personally have children, but I can still understand that the alternative is extinction of the species.

3. Nobody should have to carry an able freeloader.

4. I would l sooner consider incentives for re-investment of wealth to get it back into the economy and maybe look at some draw backs to hoarding. It's a thin ice situation though, because the one thing that you guarantee when you even begin to think about clawing at the finances of the wealthy, is that they will completely pull their money out of the economy and stick it off-shore or something. Hell they don't even need to go off-shore anymore, they can just go crypto. Given that policy changes don't happen overnight, they'd have months of warning to get their money out, and trust me, this economy would be upside down before you even finished writing the bill.
 
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It's always better to fix the sucking sounds (freeloaders) before the blowing sounds (rich).

The sucking never contribute, the blowing do.

1 blower = about 1000+ suckers in $$$ back to the economy I guess. I though conservatives were all about economics? It’s always easier to focus on those in society less able to protect themselves though.
 
Ya know, some of us are independent thinkers and don't just automatically do what other people tell us to do.
True, but irrelevant as long as unions behave like a block. Look at past elections, all the Liberals have done is whip up fears the PCs will deal with what has already been pandered to public sector unions.
 
1 blower = about 1000+ suckers in $$$ back to the economy I guess. I though conservatives were all about economics? It’s always easier to focus on those in society less able to protect themselves though.
I don't know whether that math is correct, what I do know is that Ontario has 2-3x the number of people on the public teat than the US average. That's without counting gov't jobs that have been created to do nothing more than groom employment numbers.
 

Ah yes, another meme claiming "facts" that are anything but. Lets deconstruct it, shall we?

- The city of Toronto is required by law to have a balanced budget, and has had one since 1922. Ford had zero to do with accomplishing that.
- He raised property taxes while in office.
- Improved Services? He voted to cut the TTC, was famously always fighting with city workers, paramedics and other services (causing a lot of disruption to the public for questionable, or no gains), and delayed some things in the mantra of "saving money" that the city is still paying for to this day, IE TTC upgrades that now has many routes overcrowded and under serviced. The only "win" here so far as savings may have been the contracting out of garbage collection.

If you're going to resort to a meme based discussion at least TRY to find some factual ones - yeah, that means you may actually have to FACT check things rather than just assuming everything you find online is the truth.
 
1 blower = about 1000+ suckers in $$$ back to the economy I guess. I though conservatives were all about economics? It’s always easier to focus on those in society less able to protect themselves though.

On the right it's always about sucking up and punching down.

JTR, there is very little in your platform that corresponds with this current lot of Conservatives. They will not stop at the able-bodied, and education means nothing to them if you can't pay for it yourself.
 
1. Requiring educators to stick to curriculum, and not brainwash children without the consent of parents, is not a commie sentiment.

2. The education of youth is a benefit for all, not just the parents. Or would you rather have more generations of idiots running around lol. All jest aside, to me, supporting education is more about further advancing society as a whole and less about providing free daycare. I don't personally have children, but I can still understand that the alternative is extinction of the species.

3. Nobody should have to carry an able freeloader.

4. I would l sooner consider incentives for re-investment of wealth to get it back into the economy and maybe look at some draw backs to hoarding. It's a thin ice situation though, because the one thing that you guarantee when you even begin to think about clawing at the finances of the wealthy, is that they will completely pull their money out of the economy and stick it off-shore or something. Hell they don't even need to go off-shore anymore, they can just go crypto. Given that policy changes don't happen overnight, they'd have months of warning to get their money out, and trust me, this economy would be upside down before you even finished writing the bill.

Higher education is partly about developing freedom of thought and utilizing freedom of speech. If you want to put constraints on that then be my guest but that’s not a democratic style of governance. Putting constraints on speech is what Peterson is currently railing against. As for sex education for the young that’s trickier...it’s more damaging to do nothing in my opinion though and you’re always going to offend someone whatever you do.

Who decides who is and who isn’t a freeloader? If you decide to go after those not contributing/paying/working their way who says the rich freeloaders get a free pass? Again, that’s not a democratic style of governance. Anyone found to be gaming the system should be treated exactly the same way with the ultimate penalty being jail time for the biggest offences.

Back to your abortion point...ignoring anything emotive that’s simply basic economics. It costs less to allow a young woman to choose what to do with her body than to force her out of the potential workforce and make her bring up a child she didn’t want. That kind of upbringing is likely to cost you as a taxpayer much more than an abortion.

Personally I don’t like anyone gaming the system for any reason. That means falsely claiming benefits if you’re just lazy, hiding cash offshore, using creative accounting techniques not available to many of us, even down to the buggers that have disabled parking stickers that don’t need them. However, if it was me I’d go after the biggest return on investment for clawing that money back first, I’m pretty sure that would have an effect on anyone thinking of gaming after that.
 
What is a "red Tory"?
Derogatorily: Someone who's too stupid to know that they're a Liberal. Equally bad would be blue Liberals. Basically, they're in the wrong party. Not quite but almost as bad are people whose views are in between the two parties.
 
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I don't know whether that math is correct, what I do know is that Ontario has 2-3x the number of people on the public teat than the US average. That's without counting gov't jobs that have been created to do nothing more than groom employment numbers.

Well I guess we could follow a US system but then you’d have to have everything else that goes along with that....no thanks. Yes the math may be off but think about what welfare is for the average person per month versus what a few mill hidden offshore and away from the taxman will get you in interest per month alone, and that’s not counting the principal. The crimes aren’t equal in my opinion in terms of the scale of the deceit.

What government jobs are bloated in particular? Environmental protection, NSERC, agricultural research, patent protection, CRA?
 
Well I guess we could follow a US system but then you’d have to have everything else that goes along with that....no thanks. Yes the math may be off but think about what welfare is for the average person per month versus what a few mill hidden offshore and away from the taxman will get you in interest per month alone, and that’s not counting the principal. The crimes aren’t equal in my opinion in terms of the scale of the deceit.
It's not about the average per month, it's about the range of things you can claim for social assistance. I work in a field that has direct contact with Ontario Works, ODSP and EI and I see cases daily. I see the abuse and the cheating and it's appalling. I also see the firewalls that keep government and private sector workers from whistle blowing on cheats.

These are social safety nets, not ways of life for able bodied. The way I see it, the souls that need social assistance get cheated by those who cheat -- there is only so much to go around.

If we eliminated cheating and redistributed those funds to those in need, the needy could have twice what they have today and we would have some left over.
What government jobs are bloated in particular? Environmental protection, NSERC, agricultural research, patent protection, CRA?
Look at the bloat in Ontario over the last 10 years. The public payroll has increased by 50%. Why do we need public servants running the LCBO?
 
It's not about the average per month, it's about the range of things you can claim for social assistance. I work in a field that has direct contact with Ontario Works, ODSP and EI and I see cases daily. I see the abuse and the cheating and it's appalling. I also see the firewalls that keep government and private sector workers from whistle blowing on cheats.

These are social safety nets, not ways of life for able bodied. The way I see it, the souls that need social assistance get cheated by those who cheat -- there is only so much to go around.

If we eliminated cheating and redistributed those funds to those in need, the needy could have twice what they have today and we would have some left over.
Look at the bloat in Ontario over the last 10 years. The public payroll has increased by 50%. Why do we need public servants running the LCBO?

Why do we need an LCBO at all? We have one, for better or for worse and they need staff, maybe more staff when they start selling weed. I don’t know if the bloat is oversold too much to be honest but I have more familiarity with federal government rather than provincial. OHIP here seems less than bloated though.
 
Got another for you:

As far as I know, most of Council spent all of their time trying to sabotage and get rid of him, they did managed to take away his powers. In the meantime the city went to ..... So how exactly was it his fault, and not theirs?

I can't speak for DJM, but we know that Rob's purported to save a billion dollars in one of his famous lies. He actually cost the city at least that much in only one project - his vanity subway line. We'll be paying his subway levy for decades. That doesn't include the extra hundreds of millions tossed in by Harper, nor the extra that will be needed down the road when the final estimate is known. And all for an inferior solution, but one that gets easy votes (yes I know, the Libs play that game too). None of that made it into the Sun network, so your "as far as I know" disclaimer is understandable.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Switching from to a subway also shifted the operating costs onto the city, whereas the province had agreed to pay operating costs for the LRT. Operating costs over time are (very roughly) about 6x the cost of infrustructure itself. So this is gonna hurt for a long time

Speaking of time, without Rob the LRT would have been completed in 2019. That's next year. Instead, we'll be lucky if anything gets started next year.

That fiasco is a perfect example of the legacy he's left us by refusing to invest intelligently in the city, favouring flashy impractical projects (ferris wheel, casino, subways everywhere...) over sensible functional ones (downtown relief line, TCHC, Gardiner...). We'll be paying for his folly for a generaqtion, at least.

But wait, it gets worse.

While he was mayor, instead of raising property taxes so that Toronto wasn't the very cheapest place to own property in the GTHA, he kept homeowners happy and balanced the city's budget off the back of the (much scorned) Land Transfer Tax, which is not a reliable source of revenue as property values can crash any time. Like, now. So with LTT revenue being unreliable this year, the 2018 budget either had to increase property taxes by a lot, or cut spending where it's already insufficient. Now, you likely don't think that city council is conservative, but since this year's budget doesn't raise spending as fast as inflation and raised taxes at the same rate as inflation, this should tell you that they are conservative, and that you're a political extremist. Don't believe me, believe your favourite (sole?) source of information: http://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-the-monsters-in-torontos-fairy-tale-budget

We're actually fortunate we were saved from the worst of Ford's machinations, though to his credit mostly that was due to his own imbecility and general ignorance. But we're still left with the stuff he did achieve, plus his toxic legacy of rationality-distorting election anthems that carry forward to today, like pretending that efficient use of road space is inefficient, and the lowest tax region is the highest, and that world-class cities become world-class by doing the same things over and over again for generation, but doing them cheaper.

It takes a 'special' kind of ignorance to claim membership to Ford Nation and be proud of it.
 
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Why do we need an LCBO at all? We have one, for better or for worse and they need staff, maybe more staff when they start selling weed. I don’t know if the bloat is oversold too much to be honest but I have more familiarity with federal government rather than provincial. OHIP here seems less than bloated though.
OHIP not bloated... hmmm. OHIP costs 12K for each taxpayer -- just because you don't write a cheque for health care doesn't mean your not paying for it. You pay about $6700/year for each person on your family toward the cost of OHIP -- you don't write a cheque, you do pay for it in taxes.

Me and wife contributed about $19,000 last year in taxes to OHIP. Our employers paid for additional coverage, approx $7200. That means we paid about $26000 for OHIP for two people.
 
OHIP not bloated... hmmm. OHIP costs 12K for each taxpayer -- just because you don't write a cheque for health care doesn't mean your not paying for it. You pay about $6700/year for each person on your family toward the cost of OHIP -- you don't write a cheque, you do pay for it in taxes.

Me and wife contributed about $19,000 last year in taxes to OHIP. Our employers paid for additional coverage, approx $7200. That means we paid about $26000 for OHIP for two people.

Mismanagement/poorly managed for sure.....but not staff bloat as far as I know. Would a PC government step in and ask if hospital administrators should be paid as much as they are though for instance?

I don’t like paying the amount of taxes I do, nobody really does. But I see it as the cost of living in a country that compared to most is actually pretty good. Could it be better? Yes, absolutely. Vote wisely.
 
Back to your abortion point...ignoring anything emotive that’s simply basic economics. It costs less to allow a young woman to choose what to do with her body than to force her out of the potential workforce and make her bring up a child she didn’t want. That kind of upbringing is likely to cost you as a taxpayer much more than an abortion.

Wouldn't it be still less expensive and safer for both participants to put a rubber on that thing?

I'm not really in favour of using abortion as a form of birth control for the lazy.

If the rubber breaks, then sure. But we need better education.
 

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