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Amber alert

FullMotoJacket said:
The police can walk right through your door if they think that a crime is/has been committed. In the latest instance all they'd need is a warrant and a battering ram to enter and investigate for leads.

What no one seems to understand is, there's the Joe Bass' of the world (anytime/anywhere), and the rest. Was it necessary to send the last alert as far as Winnipeg (it's a yes or no answer)? Alerts to the Golden horseshoe for a custody squabble in Thunder Bay? Wait 5 1/2 hours till 2/3 of the province was in bed to send an alert? Unless they find a way to make the system more streamlined/location specific the Car Alarm in the City Phenomenon (aka urban crickets) will come into play. The alarms will be sent out and a whole hell of a lot of people will think "Not again. Probably some guy and his wife squabbling over custody in Moosonee" and ignore it, They'll turn their electronics off/silent, then go on with what they were doing.
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If a crime has been committed(Past tense) they wait for a warrant. If they suspect a crime is being committed there is probable cause to enter without a warrant. I'm sure sometimes a cop thinks he hears someone scream.

There is a process for an Amber Alert and they don't hand them out like pizza coupons. The down side is the time it takes. The trade off is that the alerts are few and far between so people don't normally mute them.

It would be interesting to know how many drama queens asked for alerts when a custody issue is bitter and hubby / wife took a few extra minutes of kid time.

The time at risk started when the dad left the party with the girl, not when mom reported the situation. In a planned abduction a kidnapper can put a lot of miles on fast.

The father is being charged with first degree murder indicating planning and has been medically treated, indicating a possible suicide.
 
PrivatePilot said:
It's easy to deconstruct this all after the fact and say "could have done, should have done", but in the heat of the moment when you don't have ANY of the info we all have after the fact, you do what you need to do.
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I'm shaking my head thinking that there are people thinking they had no reason to do whatever was necessary to get into that house right after the abduction with threats of harm report was made. If they suspect there's a meth lab inside a house you can be damn sure they'll be waving a piece of paper while kicking in the door, regardless of whether there is someone home or not.
 
MLadin said:
Every sign on the 400 series highways is lit up with amber alert descriptions. No one would have missed it. He still would have been caught.

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Every ELECTRONIC sign on the 400 series highway would, yes, but how many of you could read and retain the info including licence plate? I bet not many.

Also, those electronic signs are not everywhere.

He MAY still have been caught but not all criminals are stupid enough to take major roads/highways to flee the scene of a crime.

I’d bet the person who saw the vehicle was able to re-check their phone and confirm the license plate.


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I always felt like it was "me against everyone else" and FMJ confirmed it lol.

With this thing where they can come and get you to do a breathalyser at home, do they need a warrant to enter? Wasn't that posted in another thread that they do not?
There is no current crime going on.

Catch 22 here -- "no one answered". I'm gonna be an ***, but, he threatened murder-suicide.....I'm no genius, but I'm thinking that no one is gonna answer.

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Joe Bass said:
Catch 22 here -- "no one answered". I'm gonna be an *****, but, he threatened murder-suicide.....I'm no genius, but I'm thinking that no one is gonna answer.
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A week from now it will come out what a Gong Show this turned out to be. The overhead signs are a great idea. AMBER Alerts done timely and correctly are a good idea (the screaming nuclear attack style warnings, not so much. the old 4 beeps and a scrolling message was enough). If the trend continues, people will tune them out. It's human nature. No one cares about car alarms downtown. They're just noise pollution to most unless it's their own vehicle.
 
FullMotoJacket said:
Because we all know the Peel police would never "stretch the truth". Hell, the chief was accused of going to the hospital and tampering with a witness. Their penchant for covering things up is well known. If the girl was found at 11 as you say, why did they release an alert at 11:30 for the suspect and his daughter? If that were the case it would have been a basic murder suspect BOLO sent out.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-n...bducted-by-father-found-dead-in-brampton-home



If you're in your living room beating your wife do you actually think the cops have to stand outside waiting for another cop to show up with a warrant?
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I didn't say it... peel police said it.. and it raised the question of why was the amber alert released so late... which they explained was a delay in when they ask for the amber alert.. to when it is actually sent out.
During the questioning, reporters also pointed out that the story was on the 11pm news... before the amber alert.

In certain circumstances.. Yes, they can enter anywhere without a warrant... and as soon as this incident met that threshold... they did force entry in to the home.
I'm sure every cop at that house was itching to get inside, some probably had to be restrained from going ahead... until they were legally allowed.
It takes time to get a warrant.
 
Robbo said:
Read YOUR post 90. I suspect it is because he had already threatened to harm the child and himself.
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They would have known this when the mother walked into the station. Why wait till 11:30 to send out an AMBER Alert?
 
FullMotoJacket said:
A week from now it will come out what a Gong Show this turned out to be. The overhead signs are a great idea. AMBER Alerts done timely and correctly are a good idea (the screaming nuclear attack style warnings, not so much. the old 4 beeps and a scrolling message was enough). If the trend continues, people will tune them out. It's human nature. No one cares about car alarms downtown. They're just noise pollution to most unless it's their own vehicle.
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I should have been more specific in my post-- I was referring to an earlier post that said that they went to his house, knocked on the door and no one answered.


I can see your point in all of this, and yes, there are ways to make the system better. And you make some good points. I did say anytime anywhere, but you are right, it needs to make geographical sense as well. Winnipeg is what? 20 hours from Brampton by car? Winnipeg was too far. (you wanted yes or no answer).
PP stated he could be there by plane. Although possible, the chance of getting tix, getting on a plane, no passport (not primary caregiver), she's a minor so you you need a letter (notorized maybe?) to bring the kid on a plane (I think)..... Well too unlikely. Possible yes, but lotto win likely.

I may sound like I'm playing both sides, but tbh I really don't mind the alert system. And as said earlier, they have been few and far between. And as long as they learn from this one...well, I was gonna say that the next one should be better, but I really hope there isn't a next one....(I know. I'm out of touch with reality).

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FullMotoJacket said:
They would have known this when the mother walked into the station. Why wait till 11:30 to send out an AMBER Alert?
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Maybe to give the authorities a chance to find them both...still alive?

Perhaps they thought an amber alert would trigger him to kill the girl so decided to first check where he was known to frequent?


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Joe Bass said:
I should have been more specific in my post-- I was referring to an earlier post that said that they went to his house, knocked on the door and no one answered.


I can see your point in all of this, and yes, there are ways to make the system better. And you make some good points. I did say anytime anywhere, but you are right, it needs to make geographical sense as well. Winnipeg is what? 20 hours from Brampton by car? Winnipeg was too far. (you wanted yes or no answer).
PP stated he could be there by plane. Although possible, the chance of getting tix, getting on a plane, no passport (not primary caregiver), she's a minor so you you need a letter (notorized maybe?) to bring the kid on a plane (I think)..... Well too unlikely. Possible yes, but lotto win likely.

I may sound like I'm playing both sides, but tbh I really don't mind the alert system. And as said earlier, they have been few and far between. And as long as they learn from this one...well, I was gonna say that the next one should be better, but I really hope there isn't a next one....(I know. I'm out of touch with reality).

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They could have easily gotten on a train heading out of province.


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Robbo said:
They could have easily gotten on a train heading out of province.


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See, this is why I have you guys -- I don't think of these things.

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FullMotoJacket said:
The police can walk right through your door if they think that a crime is/has been committed. In the latest instance all they'd need is a warrant and a battering ram to enter and investigate for leads.

What no one seems to understand is, there's the Joe Bass' of the world (anytime/anywhere), and the rest. Was it necessary to send the last alert as far as Winnipeg (it's a yes or no answer)? Alerts to the Golden horseshoe for a custody squabble in Thunder Bay? Wait 5 1/2 hours till 2/3 of the province was in bed to send an alert? Unless they find a way to make the system more streamlined/location specific the Car Alarm in the City Phenomenon (aka urban crickets) will come into play. The alarms will be sent out and a whole hell of a lot of people will think "Not again. Probably some guy and his wife squabbling over custody in Moosonee" and ignore it, They'll turn their electronics off/silent, then go on with what they were doing.
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That’s your decision to ignore it. Not everyone thinks the same.

At the end of the day, the gov’t piggy-backed onto an existing alert system and although a death wasn’t prevented, a criminal was caught.

Who’s to say that he wouldn’t have taken the lives of others if he wasn’t spotted?


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Joe Bass said:
With this thing where they can come and get you to do a breathalyser at home, do they need a warrant to enter? Wasn't that posted in another thread that they do not?
There is no current crime going on.

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Yes they would. Unless police have a warrant you have no obligation to even answer the door. Which is exactly what i said i would not do if they came knocking about a breathalyzer.

Someone reported me driving all over the road on the way home? Prove it and bring the warrant next time you knock.
 
Robbo said:
Also, those electronic signs are not everywhere.
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Key point that a lot of people who live 99% of their lives in the GTA clearly forget.

I can leave my driveway and drive for countless thousands of kilometers, even into a different province or possibly even the USA...without ever seeing an overhead electronic sign that could display an amber alert.

Some people want to live strictly within their own little box, apparently unaware that the reality of others can be vastly different than their own.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Some people want to live strictly within their own little box, apparently unaware that the reality of others can be vastly different than their own.
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And what you fail to grasp is there's people who in any number of situations will be a) gravely concerned b) somewhat concerned c) not concerned. I'd say the majority would be in the b) group. If the Peel police statement is to be believed, they went into the house at 11pm which would make the AMBER Alert threat was sent out at 11:30 a false flag, as they would have already found the child. It's unwise to play fast and loose with the system and risk alienating any of the people who would be sitting on the fence about their concern for the alerts. If you think that's out of line, you're projecting your own morals/beliefs on others, and that never works out for you or them.
 
I'm not particularly disagreeing that this whole specific incident could have been handled better...

But that said, keep this in mind:

  • None of us are LEO's and necessarily know the entire story at this point. There might have been very valid reasons for the delays that haven't been disclosed.
  • The media reports are also perhaps lacking big pieces of the overall story as well based on #1 above.
  • The entire situation will without doubt be used as a learning tool for future scenarios
 
While reading a headline about Texas sending emergency SMS to their residents I realized it's been a dog's age since I've been woken up by or otherwise received an AMBER alert. The official twitter hasn't tweeted since March.

Did something change?
 
TwistedKestrel said:
While reading a headline about Texas sending emergency SMS to their residents I realized it's been a dog's age since I've been woken up by or otherwise received an AMBER alert. The official twitter hasn't tweeted since March.

Did something change?
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They were getting public pushback from poorly managed retreats (lighting up the province at 01:00 for an amber alert in thunder bay that started hours before and they were driving, etc). I got tornado alerts a few weeks ago and amber alerts sept 28 and june 28. They seem to have cleaned up the targeting and system control since the Pickering nuclear fake meltdown.
 
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