H-D Livewire pricing... | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

H-D Livewire pricing...

Personally I don't get the electric motorcycle. Lets look at a basic Zero -- For $13K I get a motorcycle has a highway range of 30KM or 15 minutes on a full charge, and has the same top speed as an CBR125 or Grom. At today's fuel prices, the CBR would need to travel 400,000km before it's cost of ownership exceeded the Zero. For $22K I can get a top end Zero that will take me 100 miles or about 1.5hrs before needing a 12 hr recharge. Performance is about the same as a CBR500, which would also need to travel 400,000+km to match the TCO.

So... what do I get from the electric motorcycle? Performance? No. Economy? No.

Someone help me.

People who buy into emerging technology rarely do it to save money, the attraction in it is to have something completely different and unique from the the rest of the herd.
 
People who buy into emerging technology rarely do it to save money, the attraction in it is to have something completely different and unique from the the rest of the herd.
I've been in the technology game for a long time, "have something completely different and unique from the the rest of the herd" serves as a differentiation, but relying on that as the sole value proposition simply makes your product a fashion item. Almost impossible to sustain.

 
So... what do I get from the electric motorcycle? Performance? No. Economy? No.

Someone help me.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same. The thing that ices it for me is no exhaust or mechanical music. I`ve seen many 500 GP bikes, all the TZ`s..250/350/750 even the rare TZ500(all with open chambers) Many superbikes and classics,`71 BSA Rocket 3 factory racer is my favorite(check youtube vids),Yosh GS 1000, bevel Desmos with Conti pipes, H2R and TR750`s. Even seen the Honda 250/6 run 3 times. I think it is partially responsible for my tinnitus(and the 30+ Who concerts with close floors). I have ZERO -joke intended- interest in any electric car or bike.
 
Let's put it another way; if you rode up to somewhere o' say last summer or the one before that where there was 100 Hogs and riders hanging out doing their Harley thing and you were sporting a brand new Livewire. What Harley would generate more interest?

... excluding the one with the topless supermodel sitting on it.
 
For better or for worse there is a huge push to have electric vehicles (EV's), especially in Europe. I suspect it won't be that long before the majority of large cities in Europe mandate EV's only in downtown areas and over there a bike is a great urban vehicle so an electric bike is a no brainer.

For me an EV bike wouldn't work as a commuting bike since my commute is 140 to 160 km round trip (depending on which way I go) and the price alone makes it not remotely sensible as a second bike. (I have spent $10,999.60 on gas in the 159,189 km's I have put on my current bike since I bought it end of July 2015. Even the cost of the Basic Zero is way more than that and would not have taken me on many of the Sunday rides I do or the road trips I have done.)

Sad thing is we may not have a choice in the future.

..Tom
 
You probably aren't listening.

Literally Billions are being spent by automobile manufacturers to address this. Porsche Alone (which is a very small company) is spending over 6 billion Euros on "Electromobility", at least half of that is on infrastructure alone. Other companies are likewise spending a ton on it.

..Tom


What type of infrastructure ? Charging stations or putting up more robust power lines that will be required for more power delivery ? I doubt any car company will be spending money on infrastructure the government runs right now .
 
What's the point of an electric motorcycle? I didn't get it to stand out, let's start there. For me it was the lack of maintenance mostly. I live in a condo tower so I can't do bike work where I live, and quite frankly I don't really want to be futzing around when I could just be riding. No winterizing/de-winterizing, fluid changes, chain maintenance, etc etc. Just turn on and go. The torque still makes me grin, the lack of gears took way less getting used to than I expected, and the lack of noise is fun. What's especially positive that doesn't get mentioned much is the lack of heat generation - so much more comfortable to ride in the summer. Of course on the downside, I can't hug the gas tank in winter.

But that's me. It works for me because I'm not a tourer, I don't go for days/week long rides, I just commute (30km daily) and tool around the GTA for the most part. If I go further, I plan a stop around a charger and grab a meal. No big deal. Obviously that's not going to work for a lot of people - great, move on. You ride your ride, I'll ride mine, as long as we're both riding.

Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
 
Well, on Sundays you can hop the Turbine Freight, to far outside The Wire. To jump on a brilliant red machine from a better vanished time.

I have absolutely no idea what you are saying above. Can you please explain?

..Tom
 
What type of infrastructure ? Charging stations or putting up more robust power lines that will be required for more power delivery ? I doubt any car company will be spending money on infrastructure the government runs right now .

No doubt infrastructure will need to be worked on big time. Existing condos in the city have a big problem in trying to get power to chargers n parking spots. A friend is a linesman for Hydro (in York region) and he was telling me a Tesla owner had to have a transformer installed for his home. He was at the end of the typical seven homes per transformer. When he tried to charge his car the voltage drop was so much that the charger dropped in to a mode that would take a few days to charge. He had to pay for the transformer himself.

Lot's of attention needed on infrastructure!


I don't know what the final answer is but know that the newest charging stations are being backed up with battery packs. They can charge themselves at a steady rate (or off peak) and charge cars when needed. I nsoem cases very quickly:

http://www.thedrive.com/tech/25468/...ger-that-gives-62-miles-of-range-in-3-minutes

On a different but related note VW just showed a portable charging station. Much like a portable phone charger but on a massive scale:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/2/18165265/volkswagen-ev-mobile-charging-station-battery

..Tom
 
No doubt infrastructure will need to be worked on big time. Existing condos in the city have a big problem in trying to get power to chargers n parking spots. A friend is a linesman for Hydro (in York region) and he was telling me a Tesla owner had to have a transformer installed for his home. He was at the end of the typical seven homes per transformer. When he tried to charge his car the voltage drop was so much that the charger dropped in to a mode that would take a few days to charge. He had to pay for the transformer himself.

This sounds kinda questionable to me... can't you charge a Tesla overnight off a 220V outlet? I know they can get to crazy high power draw if it's available, but it's not *necessary*
 
This sounds kinda questionable to me... can't you charge a Tesla overnight off a 220V outlet? I know they can get to crazy high power draw if it's available, but it's not *necessary*

Well he and his crew had to install the transformer for the client because the voltage drop was so much. IIRC the house was the last of the seven homes that were supplied by one transformer. (It was high end subdivision and I don't know if that is different than normal homes.)

I doubt he was lying about it.

..Tom
 
I have absolutely no idea what you are saying above. Can you please explain?

..Tom

C'mon Tom! Surely you know this one?



Rush

Red Barchetta


My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits
Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime
Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge...

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase
Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the fireside


Songwriters: Alex Lifeson / Neil Peart / Geddy Lee Weinrib
Red Barchetta lyrics Core Music Publishing, Ole Core Music Publishing, ANTHEM ENTERTAINMENT GROUP OBO CORE MUSIC PUBLISHING

[video=youtube_share;FAvQSkK8Z8U]https://youtu.be/FAvQSkK8Z8U[/video]




 
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I don't understand the confusion on this price. For one thing, the pricing is right in HD's ballpark. Second, have you guys ever seen the pricing of a tesla? any tesla? And they pull that money hundreds of times every day.

BTW, I see some names of people who have said they don't like HD because they're too behind the times. Now they jump out in front of literally everybody in terms of tech, and you all expected it to be cheap. Amazing.
 
Range of 110 miles for this electric is no big issue (drawback) for H-D and is about the same as the Forty-Eight which has a 2 gallon gas tank. Remember the brand's main draw is aesthetics, brand-name recognition and getting attention.
 
.... Remember the brand's main draw is aesthetics, brand-name recognition and getting attention.
Plus branded apparel and merchandise which probably accounts for ~ 30% of their income.
Mini-skirts, lunch boxes, ash trays, t-shirts, doo-rags and all that other vital crap.

"Now they jump out in front of literally everybody in terms of tech," <- that part has yet to be proven or realized.
and they
didn't actually develop the thing in-house they are buying into a pre-existing technology.
 
good points but people seem to forget the Harley demographic and their history.
Look at the vrod, better performance (IMO the best hog), i would jump on one if i had the money for it. It didn't do great, now discontinued.
The same is happening with their street line but at least those are cheap enough for hipsters who dig the style.
Electric is attractive to the same young crowd but at $37k out of their budget.
People willing to spend that much on a Harley want the old school sound and feel.

Only rationale is if this is supposed to be a halo model similar to an H2/H2R, not going for sales numbers but just to promote the brand/development. (but with Harley's financial situation I doubt that's the case)
 
C'mon Tom! Surely you know this one?



Rush

Red Barchetta
...

Sadly as much as I like and admire Rush I only know two of their songs. Now if you mentioned any of of the first 5 black Sabbath Albums that would be a different story.

..Tom
 

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