Glenn/RZ500
Member
Gotta` be kidding..$37,250. 110 mile range, 0-60 in 3.5. Six years to get it to market. Who`s pre ordering next month? Circling the drain, What do you think?
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H-D Livewire pricing...
- Thread starter Glenn/RZ500
- Start date
Face
Well-known member
We expected it to be pricey, but this is just crazy!
https://www.harley-davidson.com/ca/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/livewire.html
But then again, their top priced bike is $54k, and 1/3rd of their bikes are $30k or more so what do you expect.
https://www.harley-davidson.com/ca/en/motorcycles/future-vehicles/livewire.html
But then again, their top priced bike is $54k, and 1/3rd of their bikes are $30k or more so what do you expect.
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/ca/ makes more sense, you can get them today, half the price, longer (claimed) range, look better ...
Zero's early attempts were a joke, but the current models appear to be vastly improved.
Zero's early attempts were a joke, but the current models appear to be vastly improved.
Many of those arguments also apply to non-HD cruisers, but we know how that market goes. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
blackcamaro
Well-known member
I’m not that surprised by the pricing. Maybe $5000ish higher then I would’ve guessed though. Look at electric cars, without government rebates none of them are competitively priced. Even with the rebates it’s debatable if they are worth it.
Harley will sell some. Get feedback from consumers and learn. Prices will come down over time and 10 years from now they will be priced competitively.
Harley will sell some. Get feedback from consumers and learn. Prices will come down over time and 10 years from now they will be priced competitively.
Yeah, exactly. They'll work for the people who consider a Tim Hortons 20 minutes away a "big ride". If they're advertising "up to 177km" for range, given teh performance and the fact you know people are going to be honking on it regularly to enjoy that performance, realistically it's likely going to be 100km range.
I just don't know that anyone in the market for an HD is going to be interested in an electric hog, however. HD riders want the sound, the feel...of a Vtwin. IMHO anyone considering an electric bike probably isn't stuck on it needing to be an HD vs something like a Zero. The current generation (at least those who can afford that kind of money on a toy) is less interested in the brand, and more interested in value for money.
Me, I'd look at a Zero before this HD offering, hands down.
Its a lot of coin to travel a short distance, but the market will decide what 'value' there is. If production sells out , then we will know what the market will bare.
Early days with this sort of thing, unless competition forces a rethink, this may be what they cost.
Early days with this sort of thing, unless competition forces a rethink, this may be what they cost.
They're trying to pull a fast one with the L3 fast charge details, showing "192 miles per hour of DCFC" - it only has a 110 mile range, so they're trying to make it look like it actually goes further than it does.
And It says that you can L2 charge it, but it only charges at L1 speeds. W. T. F. That has to be the dumbest thing ever since L2's are actually quite widespread - L3's, not so much - and L3's rates are also typically not cheap. Given people are estimating the battery to be around 7kwh, a L2 could fully charge it from empty in a little over an hour. To exclude it as a viable charging option, only using 1/6'th of it's capability when plugged into an L2 is just plain stupid.
Exactly the response I would expect from many of the die hard Harley owners.
N3WMAN
Well-known member
I like to talk smack about HD as much as the next guy but a friend who is a life long sportbike rider/racer works at an HD dealer now and was blown away by the amount of bikes that come in for service with 100,200,300k on them.
The livewire is a catch 22. If HD keeps on building the same old crap they have been building forever, electric bikes built by competitors will surpass them. However, they went and made an electric bike to get ahead of the game, and it basically, by design, goes against everything that the company stands for. So what do they do?
I think it's still the right move. The bike looks good and will have good fit and finish, and they have a huge dealer network.
Time will tell whether or not it was a good move.
Sky_high
Well-known member
I really wanted to work for Harley Davidson Canada, even though I'm not your typical HD rider. (My final interview with the President didn't go well). I really think they have something good here with their new Electric bike. It may not be perfect, but I think it's a step in the right direction.
Sent from my Pixel using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
Sent from my Pixel using GTAMotorcycle.com mobile app
I suppose you can't fault HD one day for always doing the same things and trash them the next as they try something "new." It's quite different for them, I'll give them that.
But the pricing is madness. They'll sell a few to people that won't ride them. Otherwise, this has failure written all over it.
But the pricing is madness. They'll sell a few to people that won't ride them. Otherwise, this has failure written all over it.
That's why I said 80%. There are quite a few HD riders that pile on the miles.
Is there a consideration, given HD's grim history of billions of bailout dollars, one of the mandate conditions was develop 'green' product. So we get live wire. They may not actually care all that much corporately , an electric bike was just a concession to appease the gov't loan/grant officers.
Trials
Well-known member
I had Great hopes for HD when they announced the Street and Livewire almost concurrently, but I think the huge failure was to showcase the Livewire without making it available at any price and to sell the Street at an outrageous price. They should have put the electrics out there and had the first to market advantage from a major brand manufacturer (they don't really make it, did not design it, they bought the Scandi company that designed it, something like they did with Amarachi and MV Agusta once upon a time) Failure with the Street models is the supply and price. They should have flooded the market with India bikes and crate engines at the lowest price possible. The Street (which is the worst model name ever) is made in India no matter how hard they try to convince the N.A. market otherwise, product made in India is same as product made in China, if you don't sell it based on low cost then you failed to sell the most important feature, they are literally trying to sell a Pig in a poke.
Add to that H-D dictated it had to be fitted with the massive hog style steel peanut fuel tank (on a bike that has a Fi fuel pump and does not require gravity feed) and twin shock cruiser styling intended to appeal to a market that is in decline. Responsibility for stupid marketing always falls on upper management making bad choices.
Looks like a big flop. Worse than the street series due to pricing. Typical HD riders want the sound, look and feel of a classic HD, this has none of those things.
Younger demographic that would go electric will look at specs and don't have as huge wallets.
170km MAX, slow city range is garbage when you can get a Zero S 14.4 for under 20k and does 190.
I really don't know who they are trying to market this to, it looks cool but that's about it.
Not to mention the released 30k pricing is USD...
Younger demographic that would go electric will look at specs and don't have as huge wallets.
170km MAX, slow city range is garbage when you can get a Zero S 14.4 for under 20k and does 190.
I really don't know who they are trying to market this to, it looks cool but that's about it.
Not to mention the released 30k pricing is USD...
sburns
Well-known member
Part of me thinks the pricing is like this because the rebates do exist. Manufactures are charging a bit more to cash in. In the end Joe tax payer pays for it.
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