Reg rectifiers | GTAMotorcycle.com

Reg rectifiers

nobbie48

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Not sure if this has been around and I only mention it in passing as I no longer rely on reg recs.

When I had my 1200 Wing I went through a bunch of R/Rs and would have been interested. At $400 a pop it was beyond annoying

I don't have the technical knowledge to converse intelligently on the subject so fight with each other if interested.


https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46863
 
Is there a question in there somewhere, or are you just informing us you have given up?

The link you provided outlines a state of the art rectifier, from 1955. Basically the same as on a old Lucas setup.

On my old 'wing I installed a Denso alternator, that I stole off a welding machine, on the front above the timing belts, driven off a geared pulley on the end of the crank. Looked something like: https://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/gallery/31759/31759_020227_280000003.jpg except I used a smaller alt and it was closer to center.

If I was to do it again I would pull the stator wires out of the case and install a Shindengen Sh730/750 reg/rec remotely, where you can get at it.

If you're still having electric problems with your 'wing, get in touch.
 
I moved to a 1500 which has an alternator so the post was for anyone having issues. I don't know if the concept applies to other makes / models. If I was to go back to a 1200 which is unlikely I would go with a poor boy conversion and forget about the stator as well.
 
I moved to a 1500 which has an alternator so the post was for anyone having issues. I don't know if the concept applies to other makes / models. If I was to go back to a 1200 which is unlikely I would go with a poor boy conversion and forget about the stator as well.

The stator is part of your alternator, it's called an alternator because it produces alternating current (AC). Your battery operates on DC (direct current) In order to produce DC from AC you rectify the current and that is performed by a rectifier circuit, in order to control the voltage so that it is compatible with the voltage of your battery you use a regulator.
... bottom line is; Anything that has an alternator and needs to connect to a battery has a rectifier and a regulator.
 
The stator is part of your alternator, it's called an alternator because it produces alternating current (AC). Your battery operates on DC (direct current) In order to produce DC from AC you rectify the current and that is performed by a rectifier circuit, in order to control the voltage so that it is compatible with the voltage of your battery you use a regulator.
... bottom line is; Anything that has an alternator and needs to connect to a battery has a rectifier and a regulator.

i was referring to the inside the engine stator of the 1200's that was problematic but point taken.
 
I moved to a 1500 which has an alternator so the post was for anyone having issues. I don't know if the concept applies to other makes / models. If I was to go back to a 1200 which is unlikely I would go with a poor boy conversion and forget about the stator as well.
I had an 85 wing for awhile. Went to a poor boy when the OEM quit working and never had a problem. Also gave plenty of power for accessories.

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
 
Adding accessories that increase your electrical power requirements combined with and weak battery most likely account for the lions share of stator or rectifier/regulator failures. If that was not the case, then you should be seeing a number of failures while the machines are still under warranty, which would indicate a design deficiency. The beauty of the alternator typically used inside a Honda motorcycle engine is that it does not require brushes because the only thing spinning is a big permanent magnet. Additionally the internal alternator which hangs off one side of the crankshaft does not require additional drive belts or chains to spin and that results in less power being robbed from the engine. By adding an external car type alternator you are potentially increasing fuel consumption and increasing the number of parts that wear out (commutator carbon brushes and drive belt) and that would be considered a down-grade to some.
 
Adding accessories that increase your electrical power requirements combined with and weak battery most likely account for the lions share of stator or rectifier/regulator failures. If that was not the case, then you should be seeing a number of failures while the machines are still under warranty, which would indicate a design deficiency. The beauty of the alternator typically used inside a Honda motorcycle engine is that it does not require brushes because the only thing spinning is a big permanent magnet. Additionally the internal alternator which hangs off one side of the crankshaft does not require additional drive belts or chains to spin and that results in less power being robbed from the engine. By adding an external car type alternator you are potentially increasing fuel consumption and increasing the number of parts that wear out (commutator carbon brushes and drive belt) and that would be considered a down-grade to some.
Most times yes. In the case of the gold wing the "poorboy" external alternator was/is an excellent alternative to pulling the entire engine to replace the starter with another OEM which was prone to failure. Who's concerned about a slight loss of power on a wing?

Sent from my SM-A530W using Tapatalk
 
.... Who's concerned about a slight loss of power on a wing?
Only the manufacturer who is trying to build bikes that meet fuel consumption and emission regulations and the owner who cares about range and fuel economy. You have also increased the load on your starter motor which is not a great thing.

A bigger battery is another way to lessen the load on your charging circuit and provide additional power when it is needed. Probably at a fraction of the cost of redesigning and mounting the external alternator.
 
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Only the manufacturer who is trying to build bikes that meet fuel consumption and emission regulations and the owner who cares about range and fuel economy. You have also increased the load on your starter motor which is not a great thing.

A bigger battery is another way to lessen the load on your charging circuit and provide additional power when it is needed. Probably at a fraction of the cost of redesigning and mounting the external alternator.

Increased load on starter?
An alternator has a thing called "cut in" RPM, meaning there is a RPM where the alternator STARTS to charge. The starter does not turn over the motor fast enough for the alternator to put much of a load on the starter.

A bigger battery has a higher capacity BUT it also has a higher internal resistance, making it harder to charge. A bigger battery requires a bigger alternator. No real gain there. A more efficient battery would be a good thing.

A belt or chain to drive the alternator can actually waste LESS energy than a rotor mounted solidly on the crankshaft. The crank speed changes in each rotation. The crank rotates faster on downstroke and upstroke than as it goes over TDC and BDC. A LOT. So the rotor has to speed up and slow down on every crank rotation, just a little bit BUT that little bit times RPM makes for a considerable force. The belt or chain introduces lash into the system, smoothing out those pulses, resulting in less parasitic loss.
... and in the case of the 'wing, you can remove the stock BIG honkin' permanent magnet rotor and install something MUCH smaller with the same or larger output with a lighter rotor with a smaller diameter. WIN WIN WIN! (In my case I used Denso that the whole alternator weighed less than the Honda rotor)(oh AND with the alternator mounted on the timing case I could work on the alternator without taking the motor out of the bike. On old wings you need to remove the motor, the BIG motor with shaft drive splines to line up, a ROYAL pain, to service the alternator and the clutch).

The biggest problem for rectifiers is heat, and the heat comes from resistance, and that heat makes for MORE resistance and so on and so on....

The 'poor boy" rectifier is terribly in-efficient because it uses zener diodes. A design straight out of the 1890s (Called a "bridge diode" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge). A modern mosfet rectifier is MUCH more efficient and cooler running.
 
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bigger battery justs lasts longer until it's dead

if your electrical widgets draw more total amps than charging system can put out
the battery is in a state of discharge, regardless of how big it is

an alternator variable field via controllable electromagnets is a far superior system
to a permanent magnet stator that has to have it's excess current dumped off by a heat sync

space and weight prevent most bikes from having an alternator
otherwise they would all have one
 
Increased load on starter?
An alternator has a thing called "cut in" RPM, meaning there is a RPM where the alternator STARTS to charge. The starter does not turn over the motor fast enough for the alternator to put much of a load on the starter.

A bigger battery has a higher capacity BUT it also has a higher internal resistance, making it harder to charge. A bigger battery requires a bigger alternator. No real gain there. A more efficient battery would be a good thing.

A belt or chain to drive the alternator can actually waste LESS energy than a rotor mounted solidly on the crankshaft. The crank speed changes in each rotation. The crank rotates faster on downstroke and upstroke than as it goes over TDC and BDC. A LOT. So the rotor has to speed up and slow down on every crank rotation, just a little bit BUT that little bit times RPM makes for a considerable force. The belt or chain introduces lash into the system, smoothing out those pulses, resulting in less parasitic loss.
... and in the case of the 'wing, you can remove the stock BIG honkin' permanent magnet rotor and install something MUCH smaller with the same or larger output with a lighter rotor with a smaller diameter. WIN WIN WIN! (In my case I used Denso that the whole alternator weighed less than the Honda rotor)(oh AND with the alternator mounted on the timing case I could work on the alternator without taking the motor out of the bike. On old wings you need to remove the motor, the BIG motor with shaft drive splines to line up, a ROYAL pain, to service the alternator and the clutch).

The biggest problem for rectifiers is heat, and the heat comes from resistance, and that heat makes for MORE resistance and so on and so on....

The 'poor boy" rectifier is terribly in-efficient because it uses zener diodes. A design straight out of the 1890s (Called a "bridge diode" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_bridge). A modern mosfet rectifier is MUCH more efficient and cooler running.

Wouldn't a bigger battery have a lower internal resistance?

The poor boy conversion is the mounting of a car alternator to the Wing, driven off a pulley mounted on the front of the crankshaft. Many happy owners. Use any alternator that fits.

A reg rec heats up when it has to burn off excess power from an unregulated stator. Maybe put in a thermostat to turn on the bling lights when the R/R gets hot.
 
You guys are going way off on a tangent :rolleyes: but I figured I'd let you roll with it until you figure it out or let somebody else set you straight.
 
You guys are going way off on a tangent :rolleyes: but I figured I'd let you roll with it until you figure it out or let somebody else set you straight.

If you want to see stator, reg rec confusion go to a Goldwing meet.
 
Confusion is not good so let's start with basics:
The stator is part of your alternator ...

stator |ˈstādər| noun
the stationary portion of an electric generator or motor, especially of an induction motor.
 
...
A reg rec heats up when it has to burn off excess power from an unregulated stator. Maybe put in a thermostat to turn on the bling lights when the R/R gets hot.
:| Even if that was correct, which it isn't, all you have accomplished is to increase the load through the rectifier circuit and give it more heat to dissipate not less.
 
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bigger battery justs lasts longer until it's dead ...
The battery in your car or motorcycle is typically of the lead-acid storage battery type, it works on chemical reactions. Bigger battery does not simply relate to a physically larger battery. Enter the CCA (Cold cranking Amps) rating <- & Amps is the measure of work or electrical energy potential that a battery is capable of providing on demand, even in the complete absence of an active charging circuit.

"A bigger battery has a higher capacity BUT it also has a higher internal resistance, making it harder to charge. A bigger battery requires a bigger alternator. No real gain there. A more efficient battery would be a good thing." <- You can pop on down to your local CT store and buy lawn tractor sized batteries from 150 CCA all the way up to 350 CCA and the best way to make your energy store last longer, is to connect two or more of them in parallel. For all intent purpose the 'resistance' of a lead-acid battery is completely irrelevant :/ do I really need to get into how a battery works for anyone to believe it makes no difference to your charging circuit.
Think of it this way; a simple little trickle charger can charge a big battery, a small battery, or a number of batteries all connected together in a parallel circuit, yes, or no?
 
all batteries work with chemical reactions

doesn't matter if your'e taking about physical size or CCA
or whatever other spec can be looked up

if the charging system is putting out less current
than the total of all devices on the vehicle
the battery is in a discharge state
and it will die, bigger battery will take longer to do this
 

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