E bikes rampaging Toronto streets | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

E bikes rampaging Toronto streets

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TK4 said:
There is a radical difference between electric assist bicycles and e-bikes purposely designed to skirt the spirit and intention of the rules of the road.
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I agree with this. The loose definition of a power-assisted bicycle in this province allows for the things to weigh up to 120 kg. These bikes below both fall under the same classification:

Daymak-EM2.jpg
Daymak EM2/Emmo Zone, Claimed Weight 120 kg, Range 60 km, MSRP $3000


Giant-Quick-E-Plus.jpg
Giant Quick-E+, Claimed Weight 22 kg, Range 50-100 km, MSRP $3000

Of course, they both have pedals as required by law. Even if you assume the owner of the faux-moto will be obeying traffic laws and staying off the sidewalk, imagine this 120 kg vehicle moving at 32 km/h colliding with a pedestrian or another cyclist.

I don't know what can be done about the laws, but I hope there will be something. My father lives in Markham and has complained to me about encountering these silent, larger-style bikes while he is walking on the sidewalk.
 
Oh, and while I'm at it, I just watched this random video on the faux-moto style bike. If there is any further evidence that these bikes were designed to skirt the laws as much as possible, it's this:

Pedals.jpg

The "pedals" apparently won't even work unless you remove the rearsets. They'll hit the footpegs when they rotate.
 
davephoto said:
I agree with this. The loose definition of a power-assisted bicycle in this province allows for the things to weigh up to 120 kg. These bikes below both fall under the same classification:

View attachment 39579
Daymak EM2/Emmo Zone, Claimed Weight 120 kg, Range 60 km, MSRP $3000


View attachment 39580
Giant Quick-E+, Claimed Weight 22 kg, Range 50-100 km, MSRP $3000

Of course, they both have pedals as required by law. Even if you assume the owner of the faux-moto will be obeying traffic laws and staying off the sidewalk, imagine this 120 kg vehicle moving at 32 km/h colliding with a pedestrian or another cyclist.

I don't know what can be done about the laws, but I hope there will be something. My father lives in Markham and has complained to me about encountering these silent, larger-style bikes while he is walking on the sidewalk.
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LOL..Giant Quick E ! A+ to Marketing for that name.
 
Watching that daymak video you can blatantly see that it comes from the factory as non-compliant. Aside from the pedals being non-functional without modification, there is the speed. Not only does he say the speedo just stops at 32(daymak obv cuts it there because they know it's not allowed to be faster than that) but feels faster, but you can see that all through Belleville he is keeping up with traffic. Unless everyone in that town drives like granny after church, then he's doing 50-60 consistently.

It's not a matter of elitism, like saying we're better than them etc. It's more a matter of forcing some responsibility on them. There may very well be some good people on these things because that's what they can afford, but... not really and I'll get to that in a minute. Point is, most of them are riding them for other reasons. Like their record is so terrible that insurance is impossible. First of all, if you're not responsible enough to drive or ride a proper vehicle, then no you are not responsible enough for these. BTW this also means that technically a 8yo kid can get away with running around on one of these daymaks, think that's a good idea?

There are a ton of tools out there on these things, and all anybody is asking for is some consequences when they're behaving as such, a license plate to report WHEN they hit and run, not if, but when. Everything is already in place for a smooth transition, because we already have the LSM classification, which is exactly what these are. I would assume that LSM classification has much lower insurance rates anyway(unless you're one of the idiots that nobody wants on the road). So anybody that could afford a bus pass, could probably afford LSM insurance and licensing, infact if they could afford a new ebike they should be able to handle insurance. Really, this is where I get back to the affordability point, because if you can afford a $3000 ebike, then the only thing that stopped you from getting a normal bike would most likely have been that you're uninsurable and have no business controlling anything with any sort of motor, period.
 
JTR said:
Watching that daymak video you can blatantly see that it comes from the factory as non-compliant. Aside from the pedals being non-functional without modification, there is the speed. Not only does he say the speedo just stops at 32(daymak obv cuts it there because they know it's not allowed to be faster than that) but feels faster, but you can see that all through Belleville he is keeping up with traffic. Unless everyone in that town drives like granny after church, then he's doing 50-60 consistently.

It's not a matter of elitism, like saying we're better than them etc. It's more a matter of forcing some responsibility on them. There may very well be some good people on these things because that's what they can afford, but... not really and I'll get to that in a minute. Point is, most of them are riding them for other reasons. Like their record is so terrible that insurance is impossible. First of all, if you're not responsible enough to drive or ride a proper vehicle, then no you are not responsible enough for these. BTW this also means that technically a 8yo kid can get away with running around on one of these daymaks, think that's a good idea?

There are a ton of tools out there on these things, and all anybody is asking for is some consequences when they're behaving as such, a license plate to report WHEN they hit and run, not if, but when. Everything is already in place for a smooth transition, because we already have the LSM classification, which is exactly what these are. I would assume that LSM classification has much lower insurance rates anyway(unless you're one of the idiots that nobody wants on the road). So anybody that could afford a bus pass, could probably afford LSM insurance and licensing, infact if they could afford a new ebike they should be able to handle insurance. Really, this is where I get back to the affordability point, because if you can afford a $3000 ebike, then the only thing that stopped you from getting a normal bike would most likely have been that you're uninsurable and have no business controlling anything with any sort of motor, period.
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Very well put

I am cut up and run down on the sidewalk...or sideswiped by these silent maniacs masquerading as Motorcyclists.

Gangs of E bike riders ambush motorcyclists in the UK and bike jack their motorcycles

In Toronto...an old chinese man rode up to my work and cut my helmet and gloves...Arai and new winter gloves I had left in the helmet...rode off on an E bike

Most seem to be of the criminal type and would not ever be able to get licences or insurance....Drugs and alcohol I have witnessed also....I am sick of them when I am so royally stiffed for the privilege of riding and driving on Toronto streets
 
I would love to have a dirt bike version of these things. However for just a few more bucks more a klx 250 sounds way better. Happy Apexes.
 
Tough crowd here sometimes. Think of the poverty-stricken bums who have to ride to their lousy hand-bombing slave labour jobs, still partially wasted from the night before. You want those guys driving cars? Real bikes? Some make it sound like they're strapping pedals to a Ninja and raising hell. But alas, these thing are *supposed* to only do 32km/h in Ontario and though a handful of cretins are modding them to do 60km/h they are hardly a threat. Why don't you guys just admit you don't like them because they look more and more like motorcycles and they get in your way as they lurch sideways to avoid manhole covers?

Just this week a guy at work told me about his friend who took the pedals of his new "faux" SS, got pulled over and handed a whopper of a fine for no license and insurance - $5500 in total. The kid was crushed. It's not true that the cops aren't watching these things. In fact, they're cracking down.
 
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Roadghost said:
Tough crowd here sometimes. Think of the poverty-stricken bums who have to ride to their lousy hand-bombing slave labour jobs, still partially wasted from the night before. You want those guys driving cars? Real bikes? Some make it sound like they're strapping pedals to a Ninja and raising hell. But alas, these thing are *supposed* to only do 32km/h in Ontario and though a handful of cretins are modding them to do 60km/h they are hardly a threat. Why don't you guys just admit you don't like them because they look more and more like motorcycles and they get in your way as they lurch sideways to avoid manhole covers?

Just this week a guy at work told me about his friend who took the pedals of his new "faux" SS, got pulled over and handed a whopper of a fine for no license and insurance - $5500 in total. The kid was crushed. It's not true that the cops aren't watching these things. In fact, they're cracking down.
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Everybody is "tough" behind the keyboard.I think you have the right bit of compassion here.I have to admit,i am backpeddaling a bit after your posts.
 
Roadghost said:
Tough crowd here sometimes. Think of the poverty-stricken bums who have to ride to their lousy hand-bombing slave labour jobs, still partially wasted from the night before. You want those guys driving cars? Real bikes? Some make it sound like they're strapping pedals to a Ninja and raising hell. But alas, these thing are *supposed* to only do 32km/h in Ontario and though a handful of cretins are modding them to do 60km/h they are hardly a threat. Why don't you guys just admit you don't like them because they look more and more like motorcycles and they get in your way as they lurch sideways to avoid manhole covers?

Just this week a guy at work told me about his friend who took the pedals of his new "faux" SS, got pulled over and handed a whopper of a fine for no license and insurance - $5500 in total. The kid was crushed. It's not true that the cops aren't watching these things. In fact, they're cracking down.
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1. If they can afford an ebike, they can afford a motorcycle.
2. If you wouldn't want them on the road on a motorcycle or in a car, why would you want them on these?
3. Watch that video that was posted on page one. Dude's daymak came from the factory doing 60 with non-functional pedals. It's also almost as heavy as an R3 and will do pretty much the same harm when it crashes at 60.
 
that daymak is nuts. I can see joe and jane public complaining to police about them. But because they look like motorcycles it will be sportsbikes riders getting the hate.
911? there is a person on a motorcycle riding in the bike lane.

i have seen folks here do the opposite trick. Put an E-Bike license plate on a 50cc scooter. Hard to tell the difference these days.
 
kid with the $5500 tickets knew the risk, half will probably get dropped which is likely why police laid $5500 worth. Its a life lesson for the dumdum. The gov't got it awefully wrong with requirements on these bikes, but we have beat that dead horse before.

I really don't want to have one of these whack my car at even 20kms, I don't want to sort out my comprehensive coverage fixing things.
 
davephoto said:
... imagine this 120 kg vehicle moving at 32 km/h colliding with a pedestrian or another cyclist...
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:I doesn't require much imagination I can tell you exactly what that feels like.

Bureaucracy step one would be to make bicycle riders register and plate their bicycles, then you might stand a chance of controlling the bicycle and moped traffic. There is however a desire for the public to adopt electric vehicles and for that to happen the government will need to consider some concessions.
 
Murphy said:
Why do I have to pay so much to ride a motorcycle...licence. insurance..training...when Toronto allows anyone to do the same on these with none of the above...and use roads and bike lanes
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You are right, but the government will never lay off their requirements for our bikes so why do you want to make ebike riders' more difficult? Just let them be. It's not going to make your life any easier if they get hit with insurance and extra costs.

Roadghost said:
I don't know what the fuss is about. I don't have a problem with them. They really are like bicycles, meandering along the side of the road. Just give them a wide birth. They give people with no money a way to get to their minimum wage jobs. I wouldn't want the government to give in to the mean people and force them off the road with licensing and the corrupt insurance cartels. Just leave them alone.
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Exactly.
 
From the comments on that video, they are limited in speed to 32 km/h when you get them, but switching it to "off road" mode releases the speed limiter ... and that's apparently as simple as connecting to it via Bluetooth and changing the setting.

As for "It's not going to make your life any easier if they get hit with insurance and extra costs." ... True, until one of them (unlicensed and uninsured) hits you and does damage or injury ... and at 60 km/h it's the same level of damage or injury as a "low speed motorcycle" (which requires licensing and insurance) because that's what it is.

IMO these are better off being able to keep up with traffic ... but the responsibility (licensing and insurance) ought to go along with that.
 
I drive A LOT and see e bikes weaving along, they are actually a bit of a barrier to safe traffic flow, if they could travel or accelerate quicker it may be better, but then the collision risk goes up, since the brakes aren't stellar on these units, drivers wearing less than adaquete lids and tigercats jackets arent prepared to slide along the asphalt at 30km+ .
Im in favor of restricting them to 32k for thier own safety also.
 
crankcall said:
Im in favor of restricting them to 32k for thier own safety also.
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I'm not. Don't restrict them. The best way to get them off the roads is for them to kill themselves accidentally, then no one will want them!

I swear this plan is fool proof and works with motorcycles too!
 
Be careful in what you wish for.
Increased enforcement of "Ebike" laws may come with increased enforcement of motorcycle laws... and if Quebec is any indication they'll start with non OEM exhaust.
 
JTR said:
Watching that daymak video you can blatantly see that it comes from the factory as non-compliant. Aside from the pedals being non-functional without modification, there is the speed. Not only does he say the speedo just stops at 32(daymak obv cuts it there because they know it's not allowed to be faster than that) but feels faster, but you can see that all through Belleville he is keeping up with traffic. Unless everyone in that town drives like granny after church, then he's doing 50-60 consistently.

It's not a matter of elitism, like saying we're better than them etc. It's more a matter of forcing some responsibility on them. There may very well be some good people on these things because that's what they can afford, but... not really and I'll get to that in a minute. Point is, most of them are riding them for other reasons. Like their record is so terrible that insurance is impossible. First of all, if you're not responsible enough to drive or ride a proper vehicle, then no you are not responsible enough for these. BTW this also means that technically a 8yo kid can get away with running around on one of these daymaks, think that's a good idea?

There are a ton of tools out there on these things, and all anybody is asking for is some consequences when they're behaving as such, a license plate to report WHEN they hit and run, not if, but when. Everything is already in place for a smooth transition, because we already have the LSM classification, which is exactly what these are. I would assume that LSM classification has much lower insurance rates anyway(unless you're one of the idiots that nobody wants on the road). So anybody that could afford a bus pass, could probably afford LSM insurance and licensing, infact if they could afford a new ebike they should be able to handle insurance. Really, this is where I get back to the affordability point, because if you can afford a $3000 ebike, then the only thing that stopped you from getting a normal bike would most likely have been that you're uninsurable and have no business controlling anything with any sort of motor, period.
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well yeah, tons of ***** on these...but not everyone. easily said, ton of dick motorcyclists on the road too- ACTUALLY rampaging. as for holding up traffic flow - they have a legal right to use the roadway. drivers are obligated by law to give a 3 foot berth...
"rampaging" lmao.
 
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