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Winter storage question

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roadrash said:
Hmm but doesn't the fuel stabilizer prevent fuel from breaking down ? I was thinking storage for 4-5 months should be ok this way. Guess this won't work for prolonged storage (few years or more).

Well too late now anyway, I winterized my bike already.
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I've gone a few years skipping the stabilizer. Your fuel won't go to **** in 4 months contrary to all the posts I see around here. It's overstated.
 
Didn't use stabilizer the first decade of so for winter storage. Never had a problem. Was given some, so use it now.
 
iegod said:
I've gone a few years skipping the stabilizer. Your fuel won't go to **** in 4 months contrary to all the posts I see around here. It's overstated.
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Maybe. It's a question of cost/risk/reward. Stabilizer is < $10 for a container that will probably do you for 2 years. If you have a bike with carburetors (mine has 4 of them tucked into a place that requires hours to pull and replace plastic fairings + an aircleaner housing just to get to the carbs + time to strip and clean same....) what is your cost and vs. the hassle and time to diagnose and then repair a fouled carb(s). I avoid all of this by filling up with non-ethanol gas and then using $5 of stabil once a year. Seems pretty simple to me vs. risking the alternative.
 
If your bike has a carb and don't know whether you last tank contains Ethanol, spend the $8 bucks on a bottle of Stabil. Its way cheaper than a carb cleaning.

FI bikes will be fine unless you have a ton of moisture in your fuel system.
 
We need a chemist.

Carburetors have a float bowl that is vented to the atmosphere so that it can operate at atmospheric pressure.
Ethanol is a form of alcohol that is hygroscopic and can absorb its own volume in water :I and we live in a very very wet climate.
Gasoline + ethanol + water = nasty stuff that separates when it stagnates and will totally ruin your carburetor. If you don't believe this I have some carbs I can show you.
... have you ever cleaned a carburetor and found green stuff in the float bowls and discovered that all the brass parts inside are turning black?
That is the process of copper leaching out of the brass carburetor parts <- is the equivalent of rust in iron.

Fuel stabilizer is almost completely comprised of petroleum distillate (check the MSDS for your favourite product)

This is where we should be asking our chemist; What does adding petroleum distillate to your couple of gallons of gasoline (at 8$ for a tiny little bottle) actually do? (other then elevate the octane rating of the gasoline)
 
I think that if it is used regularly it will keep the water in solution and allow the motor burn it instead of it collecting in tanks or float bowls.Chemistry class was about 55 years ago.
 
Wingboy said:
I think that if it is used regularly it will keep the water in solution and allow the motor burn it instead of it collecting in tanks or float bowls.Chemistry class was about 55 years ago.
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You and I both :I wish I knew how important chemistry is to life when I was young, then I might understand how H2O can become something completely different when you add some kind of free radical thing to it.
 
roadrash said:
Hmm but doesn't the fuel stabilizer prevent fuel from breaking down ? I was thinking storage for 4-5 months should be ok this way. Guess this won't work for prolonged storage (few years or more).

Well too late now anyway, I winterized my bike already.
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I do and have always done the same as you....Can't do anything about it this year...but hope to remember to check in here next year before my Esso 91 plus stabilizer
 
PrivatePilot said:
There's so much wrong with your facts I'm not sure where to start.

- The ethanol is not added at the station. Ethanol is not separate in any fashion in the tankers, it is mixed at the racks where the tankers load.

- You know that any fuel advertised as having ethanol is going to have at least 5%, with most being in the 7% to 8% range. Zero question.

- Ontario mandates by law an overall average of 5% ethanol per litre on an overall yearly average. This is the reason non-ethanol is getting harder to find, because every litre sold without that 5% means that percentage needs to be made up on another litre sold somewhere else..and since the percentage isn't allowed to exceed 10% (hence the decals on the pumps we all see), there's only so much non-ethanol they can legally actually sell in a year without potentially leaving themselves up the creek realizing they can't actually legally produce any more fuel for the remainder of the year. Needless to say no refiner in the province is going to make that mistake.

The economic advantage argument has little to nothing to do with anything at all. Refiners don't particularly like ethanol either, it's a PITA to run the supply chain to obtain it (more $$), a PITA to store it (more $$), it adds extra steps to the mixing and loading processes (more $$) and they are not magically immune to all the scourges that WE all deal with when it comes to ethanol either such as it's hydroscopic nature.

The only people that benefit from the whole ethanol thing is farmers and small engine repair shops.
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Do mostpeople care or give a second thought about what they fill their grocery-getterwith? I never did. My motorcycles on the other hand takes alittle more effort to obtain the product I would prefer to use. Augmenting fuel to prevent any negative repercussions in a perfect world aught tobe unnecessary.
It's curioushow we are forced to deal with this problem. If one were to take the time to educate one's self about ethanol, itquickly becomes apparent that the consumer is getting hoodwinked. Imagine buying premium whiskey as advertisedbut receiving barrel wash? I know, wedon't have to buy the premium whiskey but what if it's only available in say,Quebec and Ontario whiskey is worth less than the bottle it's in(yet advertisedas premium)?
As asomewhat educated consumer (as we all are who subscribe to this post) thecontentious point appears to be the forced purchase of a product that is notrequired or wanted. The fuel containingethanol is obviously unwanted by niche group such as ourselves and it'sfrustrating in regard to the steps we have to take to mitigate or offset theethanol issue. 1st, we don't want theproduct. 2nd, we must seek alternatives (Shell 91 etc). 3rd we may have tochemically remove (or at least stabilize...) ethanol for use and or storage. Ludicrous.
I currently have to keep several fuel cans ofShell 91 handy since I would spare my bikes, lawn tractor, leaf blower, chainsaw etc from potential ethanol horrors. Measuring the required ratios of sea foam and or 2 cycle oil and whatgoes in what can and ultimately what engine are realistically a small PITA but seeminglya necessary one since small engines are typically less forgiving in regard tofuel requirements. We are in a minority,I guess we must succumb to the dreaded almighty auto sector/ governments/farmer lobbyists... Happy Apexes.
 
Trials said:
;) How much corn did you grow last season?
It takes about 26 pounds of corn to make a gallon of alcohol which has about two thirds as much energy as the same volume of gasoline.
Nice thing about the methanol is they can also water it down :|

lol notice the price of gasoline dropped very lately? my guess is "winter" fuel season has started.
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But how much fuel do you use to grow 26 pounds of corn?
Just finished reading "Your world is about to get a whole lot smaller" Quite an eye opener.
 
timtune said:
But how much fuel do you use to grow 26 pounds of corn?
Just finished reading "Your world is about to get a whole lot smaller" Quite an eye opener.
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My brother farms corn in Ontario, he does about 1/2 million bushels per year. His fuel costs including delivery to the corn user are about 19c per bushel, or about 8c per gallon of ethanol.

Other things you have to consider:

  • a small amount of ethanol blended into gasoline (10% or less) reduces greenhouse gases substantially
  • ethanol production capabilities stabilize the price of gasoline and diesel
  • ethanol production for fuel stabilizes part of the cost of you grocery basket
 
Mad Mike said:
  • ethanol production capabilities stabilize the price of gasoline and diesel
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Diesel? Pump gas is at about a buck 7 right now and diesel a buck 30 something :I the stabilization doesn't seem to be working.
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