AWD vs. FWD ... in snow | GTAMotorcycle.com

AWD vs. FWD ... in snow

EC2010

Well-known member
Hi all, I was never a car guy, but been learning a ton through my journey in searching for the next commuter car.

From what I've read, AWD is not really a safety feature as most advertising mislead us into believing it is. It is more of performance-related, in which you are less likely to spin/slip upon acceleration. It has no co-relation to traction and steering as that all depends on having good snow tires. (hence one article I read from an expert stating the example that you will see AWD vehicles in the ditch more often because of overconfidence) AWD definitely doesn't help to reduce stopping distance.

Would you shell out extra money to get AWD? would you not consider FWD vehicles? To me, I place snow tires much higher up than AWD.... but if an extra $2000 gets me the capability, i may consider it.

I won't be going off-roading (in that I think I'll need 4WD). the vehicle will be mostly for commuting all year long. I will have snow tires, and I'll be easy on the acceleration from 0 and slow down according to weather conditions.

What are your thoughts/opinion?
 
FWD with snow tires work great in the winter. No issues in all my years of driving.

Friends RWD sucks in the winter.

Never owned AWD. Read it's not what it's all hyped up to be.
 
AWD and snow tires in the snow is the best.
I purposely tried to spin and slide my Jeep last winter and was not able to.
 
AWD has a nice positive influence on steering. AWD systems vary a lot though. Most are slow reactive systems that only help to get uphill, and the proper full-time AWDs that improve acceleration, cornering and even braking (engine brake).

Sent from my DROID Turbo using Tapatalk
 
Im on my 4th AWD car now.

I can tell you that if you DO NOT have winter tires on it (or at least very good all seasons) when there is snow on the road, the rear end will slide outward and behave like a RWD car, its actually WORSE.

That being said, the only con I can think of with an AWD car is the vehicle is heavier and uses more fuel.
 
AWD makes good drivers better and bad drivers worse.

Tow truck drivers will likely agree.

To a degree very slippery roads make a car a bit like a motorcycle. Traction is all there and then all gone. No middle ground but you don't necessarily tip over.
 
In my experience vehicles that perform better are safer then the ones that perform poorly.
Yet another instance where the insurance rate people have it completely backwards.


Add: -> Ice tires! <- unless you regularly drive your car on roads that are not plowed.
Why do they work better? <- because the rubber is noticeably softer and they have little tiny sips for tread instead of lugs,
big spaces between the lugs work well for snow but provide far less contact area on ice.
 
You're not gonna like this.

My suggestion would be buy any car you want, put 4 decent snows on it and spend your monies on a driving school that can teach you how to drive in snow.

If you live in the city there is only one or two days a year that you even NEED snow tires, much less any fancy drive system.

I live in the country, where the roads don't get plowed as well (sometimes not at all, seldom down to bare road like in the city) drive what is considered the worst for snow, both RWD, a Chev Astro cargo van (big empty box with no weight on the drive wheels) or a '84 Olds Cutlass (heavy car, LOTS of rear over hang and a BIG motor and a MAJOR propensity to over steer. I've been further off road with this boat than most 4 wheelers) and don't have problems driving. The van has two snow tires only because I get a break on insurance if I have snows, enough of a discount to pay for the snows.
I also drove professionally for 35 years.
FWD is easier to drive in snow than RWD (I didn't say better, I said easier.), more so if you know how
Here's a couple of quick and easy ones:
Take your FWD car out in a snow covered parking lot. Drive in a circle as fast as you can, till it starts to under steer or push the front end. Now do the same thing except ride the brake. Works in the wet too, anywhere there is limited traction. With or with out slipping diffs).

If you have a FWD car and only 2 snow tires, the snows go on the rear.

Ya gotta know this stuff.
The beauty of knowing how to drive is it is pretty universal and applies to all cars and light trucks... AND motorcycles, with or without fancy brake and traction control systems.


AWD is a crap shoot. The passive AWD found on "cheap" cars cannot be compared to the Audi or BMW setup.
 
Slip'n'grip, electronic or viscous clutch-type AWD is garbage. Unless there's a centre differential it's a waste of space and weight. Unfortunately even Audi is getting away from that, thanks to consumers that can't or won't learn/notice the difference.

Saying that I'll stick with AWD, can't see myself going back to FWD, especially when equipped with winter tires. My A4 is a tank in bad weather compared to my Jetta.
 
My next car is quite likely going to be AWD even though I would rather not have it. In order for my wife to be happy driving my car, I need an automatic. With VW, adding AWD lets you switch to DSG which makes me happier than a slush box. The upgrade is unreasonably cheap (~$1000). Fuel mileage is ~2 mpg worse with AWD (extra drag and ~300 lbs extra weight). The car will get snow tires.

AWD just helps you get going faster. Getting a FWD car going from a stop with bumper deep snow can be a struggle even with good snow tires. Slip and grip AWD can actually cause more handling issues than it solves. On my wifes old SUV, if you drove it aggressively into a slippery corner (or if you were an idiot and piled into a corner too quickly) it would start to push, then transfer power rearward, then hang the rear out. It made driving worse as you were trying to chase a car that was constantly changing balance. When driving conservatively, other than starting from a stop, you wouldn't know whether it was AWD or not. AWD also eliminates the ability to easily do handbrake turns as the system freaks out.

I specifically don't look at Subaru as I don't want AWD and hate their CVT's.

I still expect that AWD hybrid with electric driving one set of wheels and gas driving the other will become reasonably common (although it hasn't yet). This has many advantages.

A normal 2WD car in slippery conditions often functions as 1WD. In almost every case, I would rather have some form of good differential (limited slip or locker) as that gets me 2WD in slippery conditions which is the same as many AWD systems which end up with a single front and single rear wheel with power. Some AWD system do much better with properly transferring power around (IIRC Subaru, Acura and older Audis deal well with AWD).
 
Lots of good stuff above.
Not clear from the OP, but are you working with a budget (buying used) and is your commute during regular rush hour in the city?
If yes to all the above, a regular fwd car with set of winters (kinda silly to only run 2 winter tires when you can get a full set of older winters for like $150-200 on Kijiji) will get you safely to work even in the worst storms.
If you don’t make frequent trips to the slopes nor live in the country, awd/4x4 certainly won’t benefit you much during winter when it costs more up front (for the rest of the year) and penalize you with higher running costs.

That said, a nice 4x4 is nice all year round because of bigger tires soaking up all the potholes in the spring, and providing cushion over changing road surfaces in the winter. Personally, I have a short commute over terrible roads along Sheppard, so I (possibly idiotically) justify an old 4x4. It is great, but my old DD on the latest Michelin/Bridgestone winter tires got me through the worst of storms in winter, and even gave me some semblance of confidence in the ice storms.
 
I managed to lift all four tires off of the ground once. AWD vs FWD, all the same in that situation.

Living IN Toronto, and doing only commuting during the winter, I managed with a Subaru Legacy AWD without snows,
but it would have been better with them on the few days when things got rough e.g. when they called in the Army.

Now, I live where it snows, and drive a minivan, so it needs snow/ice tires. But they need to be replaced often.
 
.

That said, a nice 4x4 is nice all year round because of bigger tires soaking up all the potholes in the spring, and providing cushion over changing road surfaces in the winter. .

For that point, keep the rim size down as much as possible. I have never driven a vehicle on the road where I prefer the ride with 18"+ wheels over 16 to 17" wheels. My wifes current SUV came with 18". The old 16" snows fit the bolt pattern but didn't clear the brakes. I will get her 17" rims for her snows. Smaller rims provide a much more comfortable ride, minimize rim damage on pot holes, are normally lighter and save you a fortune in rubber.
 
I have an AWD (BMW) and an F150 4WD, the 4WD is not locker system, its an electric shift. In snow at road speeds the AWD is outstanding, 4WD not so much.
The AWD replaced an FWD, which had 4 good snows , driven sensibly they are both outstanding, but I do favor the AWD.

Separate discussion but good snows make all the difference.
 
AWD w/ Winters > FWD w/ Winters > AWD with no-seasons > RWD w/ Winters > FWD with no-seasons > RWD w/ no-seasons

And obv all AWD systems aren't equal from one manufacturer to the other

There's this little hill that was next to my old apartment building

I used to drive a subaru, never blinked an eye going up that hill during the winter no matter how much snow or ice was on it (i also had winter tires)
My friends who would park there though... even with winter tires... would require to speed up as much as they could on the flat if they hoped to make it up the hill... i remember trying to do it myself (for them) a few times... was entertaining but wouldn't want to be doing that if i drove on the daily. I remember very well how hard it was to do it with the RWD, took a few tries ahhaha

Taking turns, AWD is a lot more in control than FWD and if you're trying to get grip, you just give'r a little bit and it gets the grip from the back, getting your front out of trouble for steering. So it's not just when starting from a stop. I'm able to handle without much issue in my FWD car but i still miss my subaru, a lot, during winters. I miss it less when i remember my head gasket issue and its cost ahah

EDIT after reading more other posts) Also with AWD you don't need handbrake to turn..that's the whole point. Once you've gone once or twice in an empty parking lot to practice, you figure out quite quickly how to take turns, it's basically by giving it gas. I wasn't a great driver when i first started and it just came naturally to me after a bit of practice.
 
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AWD is about getting the power down so it would not be a priority for me in the winter. I'd prefer a good set of winter tires and a manual drive for the winter (and ABS & traction control if you want to reduce the fun factor :)).
 
I think AWD is about best controlling the power being put down, wifes car is 300+ hp in a recycling tub size car, with ABS and programmable traction control it just motors along nicely.
I dont want a fun factor on the commute, I just want the knobwad driving the Escalade with 5yr old 'all seasons' pulling out of the drivethru lane without looking while stirring his mochahomo latte to not hit me.
And I'm old.
 
If you're only commuting and have a good set of snow tires, you won't notice much difference.

If you end up buying a Subaru like everyone suggests, get one that's like 10 years old, they don't change. Subaru hasn't touched a motor or interior since 2007... I'm surprised people still buy them new, they have probably the lowest end interiors of any manufacturer.
 
I've had all 3 F, R and 4x4. R is useless in bad weather. F can be better, I've definitely gotten through some blizzards, however I have been considered a better driver than those that I've passed in ditches. I've driven my FWD HHR with snow tires in the winter and gone backwards down a hill trying to leave a light. One blustery morning, my ex who works in healthcare, and for whom snow days do not exist, had to get to work and could not get her FWD Aztek out of the driveway. I didn't even need to shovel around my truck just warmed it up, we jumped in, and passed many many stuck vehicles on the way to her workplace.

It's true, 4wd, awd, 4x4 etc do not help you stop, and there is no substitute for skill and experience. However, snow tires can't stop you from freezing to death, stranded in a couple feet of snow, 4x4 can. Don't forget also, that front wheel drive without an LSD is really one wheel drive when it comes to bad road conditions, all wheel drive is all 4. If you do happen to find yourself sliding toward that ditch, you'll stand a much better chance of correcting your inertia with 4 powered wheels than with one.

Having said all that, get a vehicle with selectable 4wd/awd. Full time all wheel drive is worse for fuel mileage and wear, I only use my 4x4 switch AFTER I find my tires spinning, once I get back to clear-ish roads I turn it back off.
 
The wifey's Acura has the much better SH-AWD system compared to my old MDX with the VTM-4. But you know what, for me the old MDX is so much more fun to drive in winter, i can drift for days with the old bucket. No point in driving in winter if you can't break the rear loose on some snow.
 

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