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Harley Davidson Adventure Motorcycle

Many (most) adv bikes never see a gravel road let alone a sand dune, and that's really where the line in the sand is. The engine wont be the weak link. The new measure is the electronics to control all that HP , variable traction settings, how the suspension works, braking and how the machine as a whole works out.
The days of putting a high exhaust on, move the front fender up and rebadge the project as a desert sled are long past.
 
Many (most) adv bikes never see a gravel road let alone a sand dune, and that's really where the line in the sand is. The engine wont be the weak link. The new measure is the electronics to control all that HP , variable traction settings, how the suspension works, braking and how the machine as a whole works out.
The days of putting a high exhaust on, move the front fender up and rebadge the project as a desert sled are long past.

this will be the "new " Hummer.. like the "mall-terrain" SUVs we have.
 
Their 60 degree Vees are more than tough enough, and they are highly configurable. The HD 750 twin is running about the same as output as the BMW and Ducati 800s, and the 1200s have been built into the 170hp range, they could easily compete with any big ADV bikes.

Have been built by the factory or a tuner at 170hp? The competition is running ~120 to 160 hp out of the box. From what I can see, HD is selling the 1200 at around 65 to 80 hp. The cruiser crowd will cry foul if HD turns the screws and sells double the power in the adventure bike while making the cruisers buy expensive stages to get anywhere near that much (I can't find a decent data source for a 1200 w Stage 4 installed).
 
cruiser crowd doesn't want a 60 degree LC engine
specs notwithstanding, they will never accept it as a true HD motor

look at how they treated the V Rod
superior engine, pretty good bike
but the die hards never accepted it
kept buying massive air cooled 45 degree bikes
 
Have been built by the factory or a tuner at 170hp? The competition is running ~120 to 160 hp out of the box. From what I can see, HD is selling the 1200 at around 65 to 80 hp. The cruiser crowd will cry foul if HD turns the screws and sells double the power in the adventure bike while making the cruisers buy expensive stages to get anywhere near that much (I can't find a decent data source for a 1200 w Stage 4 installed).
Competition is running 100-120 to the wheel, that's in line with HDs water cooled Revolution vtwin. Same goes for the 750 RevX, it's been upped to throw about 70 HP to the wheel.

Bottom line is HD has respectable modern engines that can be fit and tuned for this market, they evolve from the Vrod and Street line, they are proven durable and quite tunable.

I don't expect to see EVO/CVO, they are designed for heavy cruisers. Those engines are torque monsters tuned to make riding heavy cruisers easier to ride.
 
Competition is running 100-120 to the wheel, that's in line with HDs water cooled Revolution vtwin. Same goes for the 750 RevX, it's been upped to throw about 70 HP to the wheel.

Bottom line is HD has respectable modern engines that can be fit and tuned for this market, they evolve from the Vrod and Street line, they are proven durable and quite tunable.

I don't expect to see EVO/CVO, they are designed for heavy cruisers. Those engines are torque monsters tuned to make riding heavy cruisers easier to ride.

Some of the competition is putting over 150 hp to the rear wheel (S1000XR). That being said, 100+ to the rear wheel is enough to compete. I was looking up data for the 1200 not the 1250, the 1250 is much more palatable.

Apparently this is a new engine design? I found this article and it is quite interesting.
https://www.cycleworld.com/closer-look-at-harley-davidsons-new-975-and-1250cc-v-twin#page-2
 
Streetfighter looks dope, hopefully they remembered to use 17" wheels this time. ADV could use a little refinement... I don't play for that team so I won't make any suggestions
 
Have been built by the factory or a tuner at 170hp? The competition is running ~120 to 160 hp out of the box. From what I can see, HD is selling the 1200 at around 65 to 80 hp. The cruiser crowd will cry foul if HD turns the screws and sells double the power in the adventure bike while making the cruisers buy expensive stages to get anywhere near that much (I can't find a decent data source for a 1200 w Stage 4 installed).
Cruisers don't use HP, they use TQ. Compare HD engines using that number. A big bike doesn't need an engine that does 200MPH, it needs an engine that gets it off the line quickly. I suspect that for the SS and street fighter, they'll be tweeking things to flip the HP and TQ numbers around.
 
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Many (most) adv bikes never see a gravel road let alone a sand dune, and that's really where the line in the sand is. The engine wont be the weak link. The new measure is the electronics to control all that HP , variable traction settings, how the suspension works, braking and how the machine as a whole works out.
The days of putting a high exhaust on, move the front fender up and rebadge the project as a desert sled are long past.

I was wondering about that, image of adventure vs. a real adventure.

One of my uncles was a mechanic in WW II and he recalled heavy bikes not being popular at the outset because if you had to ditch it, literally, you couldn't pull it out on your own. Lighter bikes were preferred until the territory was safe. Then everyone wanted to trade their Famous James in for a HD, Indian or Triumph. To me true off road / adventure would mean light.

For additional viewing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyjTGKCjixk
 
If someone told us back in the 1970s that 600+lb dirt bikes were going to be the snob-craze we would have been in stitches. They can hit 800lbs once they're loaded down. A monument to style over common sense.
 
If someone told us back in the 1970s that 600+lb dirt bikes were going to be the snob-craze we would have been in stitches. They can hit 800lbs once they're loaded down. A monument to style over common sense.

Exactly.I think that the ageing (upright ergos) population has a lot to do with this.
 
Cruisers don't use HP, they use TQ. Compare HD engines using that number. A big bike doesn't need an engine that does 200MPH, it needs an engine that gets it off the line quickly. I suspect that for the SS and street fighter, they'll be tweeking things to flip the HP and TQ numbers around.
HD is only upside down on torque/HP on the EVO/CVO engines. They are right side up on the REVO 60degree water cooled engines, they make up to 70 (750) and 160HP (1.3) at the wheel -- plenty for their new Street and ADV designs.

The reason HD is upside down on torque for their EVO/CVO big cruisers engines is simple -- it makes a big bike rideable for a novice. By producing 100lbs of torque at 2000rpm, you can dog the bike in any gear without stalling. Easy to ride, tolerant for novices was a design requirement for their original mil WL contracts (few soldiers had ridden anything more than a horse or bicycle) and with 70 octane gas and 5:1 compression they could make torque and not HP. It's also a marketing requirement today as many HD rider get their first bikes in their 40s & 50s -- if the bikes were easy to stall or had the jump of a Diavel/VMAX there would be a lot more dead HD riders.
 
cruiser crowd doesn't want a 60 degree LC engine
specs notwithstanding, they will never accept it as a true HD motor

look at how they treated the V Rod
superior engine, pretty good bike
but the die hards never accepted it
kept buying massive air cooled 45 degree bikes

thats the plan though. its not meant for the current, niche HD crowd. harley needs new blood from different sectors of riding groups.
 
Don't forget the Wing.... ;) lol

Haha.The wing is long gone.I think Honda has priced themselves out too far for a big part of the market.$37k is a lot of coin for a toy.A good adventure bike is half that and the baby boomers might find the choice easy.
 
If someone told us back in the 1970s that 600+lb dirt bikes were going to be the snob-craze we would have been in stitches. They can hit 800lbs once they're loaded down. A monument to style over common sense.
It's the equivalent of having a GMC Suburban or H2 for driving kids to school and getting groceries -- everyone needs one.
 
If someone told us back in the 1970s that 600+lb dirt bikes were going to be the snob-craze we would have been in stitches. They can hit 800lbs once they're loaded down. A monument to style over common sense.

yup,
3 of my riding buddies that had sensible bikes (2 Vstroms and a Versys)
have bought GSA's
all loaded up are the weight of a heavy cruiser
I have no issues with a heavy cruiser for pavement riding

the 3 of them just paid to attend a BMW riders course
on how to safely ride your 2 wheeled boat, off-road
 
HD is only upside down on torque/HP on the EVO/CVO engines. They are right side up on the REVO 60degree water cooled engines, they make up to 70 (750) and 160HP (1.3) at the wheel -- plenty for their new Street and ADV designs.

Sorry for being not up to speed, but where is that REVO 60-degree engine you are talking about in H-D's current lineup? (I know it is upcoming for these new models.)

The 60-degree SOHC liquid-cooled engines in current production are the 500 and 750. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Street

The old 60-degree big-displacement liquid-cooled engine was the one in the V-Rod. It's no longer in production. That engine design is unsuitable for a sport-oriented bike (or a shorter bike in general). The transmission layout is too bulky.

The other 60-degree big-displacement liquid-cooled engine was the Rotax 1125cc that Buell used towards the end. That was supposedly a pretty good engine, but it went out with Buell ... but the "lessons learned" file surely didn't disappear with the end of production. Main problem from H-D's point of view is that it was a Rotax engine, not a H-D engine. "not invented here", plus licensing fees, etc.

The big-displacement 4-valve-per-cylinder pushrod engine that they introduced recently, is lame in production form. (Dyno tested at 87 hp.) It's totally unsuitable for a sporting application. Too bulky, too long front to back, heavy, and it doesn't make enough power.

The engine in these naked and ADV bikes appears to be a new design. The Cycle World article linked to earlier is speculative, but I'd agree with its assessments. The new engine has cylinder heads that look DOHC (unlike the 500/750, like the Rotax and V-Rod).
 
If someone told us back in the 1970s that 600+lb dirt bikes were going to be the snob-craze we would have been in stitches. They can hit 800lbs once they're loaded down. A monument to style over common sense.

They are not sold as dirt bikes, they are versatile bikes that do a bunch of things well, but nothing perfect. I have a GSA and love it, fantastic touring machine and I feel nice and comfortable when the pavement ends going places where most street bikes would not handle well. If you want a true off road bike you certainly get a dirt bike, that is what they are for, if you want a touring bike that gives you versatility as well as comfort for riding all day fully loaded then ADV bikes are the best.
 

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