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  1. #21
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    How can an insurance slip and ownership not fit your wallet? Its made a certain size so it can fit wallets. My wallet has like half-a-dozen little pockets, I got all of them filled with my drivers licence, credit cards and insurance/ownership slips. My wallet is never in my pant's pocket, I always carry it inside a little backpack I use when I go riding.
    Maybe Max doesn't want to carry a European man bag.
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  2. #22

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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperion View Post
    Wallet.
    exactly

  3. #23
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max527 View Post
    Small wallet

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    By definition that picture of a credit card holder does not qualify and there in lies your problem.


    wallet. [wol-it, waw-lit] noun. a flat, folding pocketbook, especially one large enough to hold paper money, credit cards, driver's license, etc., and sometimes having a compartment for coins.
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  4. #24
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by sircastic View Post
    Maybe Max doesn't want to carry a European man bag.
    Ain't nothing wrong with a murse.

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    His wife would.love to tools user the tree. You know, user the tree. To tools.

  5. #25

    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bass View Post
    Ain't nothing wrong with a murse.

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  6. #26
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Wallet...some seats aren't so easy to get off

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  7. #27
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by MacDoc View Post
    Wallet...some seats aren't so easy to get off
    and although I can remember my childhood phone # 416-457-6566
    I cannot ever remember my plate #
    so when checking into a hotel while travelling
    it's handy to have the reg doc in your wallet
    same with border crossings

  8. #28
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    I have a separate wallet for that stuff.

    Fortunately, all the new fangled pants have more than one pocket.
    Ignorance is curable, Apathy not so much, but I don't care, I'll try anyway.

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  9. #29
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max527 View Post
    I was just worried incase bike ever got stolen.
    So who cares about the ownership and insurance papers at that point? They're just pieces of paper. You can get them reprinted, and insurance papers are easy to print off online, or your agent can email you a copy/temp in a few minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    How can an insurance slip and ownership not fit your wallet? Its made a certain size so it can fit wallets. My wallet has like half-a-dozen little pockets, I got all of them filled with my drivers licence, credit cards and insurance/ownership slips. My wallet is never in my pant's pocket, I always carry it inside a little backpack I use when I go riding.
    I own 5 vehicles. I do not want a Kramer wallet. It's thick enough as it is.

    My insurance and ownership papers stay on the bikes - they are tucked in along with the tool kits behind the side covers, folded up in a ziplock. Have been there forever, never needed them, but I know they're there. I feel no need whatsoever to have them on my person at all times for no good reason.

    Ditto the cars - papers are in the glovebox.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Max527 View Post
    Hey all,

    I just got a bike recently and questioning putting all the papers under the seat at all times.
    Does anyone know if I can keep photocopy them and keep originals at home?
    Where does everyone keep the important paper?

    Thanks
    Don't do it. One time I got stopped by police and only had photocopies and the cop asked me do you take a photocopy of your passport whenever you go for vacation? Why should I not give you this ticket when you are not allowed to go to another country with a photocopy of your passport.

    Wham! $310 dollars in tickets.

  11. #31

    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    Don't do it. One time I got stopped by police and only had photocopies and the cop asked me do you take a photocopy of your passport whenever you go for vacation? Why should I not give you this ticket when you are not allowed to go to another country with a photocopy of your passport.

    Wham! $310 dollars in tickets.
    Why do i get the feeling there's more to this story.
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  12. #32
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evoex View Post
    Why do i get the feeling there's more to this story.
    I'd like to hear it actually. Should have some entertainment value...
    Can't we settle this over a pint?

  13. #33
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    The law states that you must present proof of ownership, registration and insurance. It doesn't say that they have to be originals nor does it prohibit you showing that information electronically.


    I've been pulled over on my truck and motorcycle and have provided pictures on my phone for proof of ownership, registration and insurance.

    It is a terrible idea to keep that information in your vehicle, especially a motorcycle because should it be stolen, it would be easier for the thieves to misuse your information and identity.

    Furthermore, keeping the original proof of ownership outside your home is equally just as bad because somebody could forge your signature and claim you sold them the vehicle, as silly as that sounds.

    So you need to protect yourself by only having copies of this information, either on paper or on your electronic device and keeping it with you at all times so that you know you have it.


    Finally... unless the vehicle is new, or has been recently plated or insured, all of this information will be accessible by the officer that pulled you over so if you are polite and respectful, they will not issue you fix-it tickets and waste both your and the courts time with you showing up to court with the correct documents as they will know this information already and that you are legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    Don't do it. One time I got stopped by police and only had photocopies and the cop asked me do you take a photocopy of your passport whenever you go for vacation? Why should I not give you this ticket when you are not allowed to go to another country with a photocopy of your passport.

    Wham! $310 dollars in tickets.
    A police officer is exempt from having to tell you the truth which means they can lie to you about anything in hope that you incriminate yourself and make their job easier.

    That doesn't mean that what they say is what the law states.

    In the case of the passport, you must physically have that document the same as you must physically have your drivers license to which the law is very clear about those two pieces of documents.

    However, your vehicle registration, ownership and insurance do not share the same requirements and therefore can be presented in any manor, as copies or digitally.


    EDIT: I've been using photocopies of my registration, ownership and insurance for almost a decade and never had any problems when pulled over by police and in most recent years, I've been using digital copies because its easier and they can always verify the information on their computer anyway so the burden on me to present evidence of my reg, ownership and insurance was fulfilled.
    Last edited by Nevo; 07-20-2018 at 12:08 AM.
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  14. #34
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    ownership and insurance should be fine for copies
    don't think you'd find too many commercial vehicles
    rolling around with originals of those, they are filed

  15. #35
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?


  16. #36
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaFan View Post
    ownership and insurance should be fine for copies
    don't think you'd find too many commercial vehicles
    rolling around with originals of those, they are filed
    I will concur that commercial equipment most certainly almost always has copies in the document holders, not originals.

    And contrary to the popular belief of some, theft of ownership documents and the such isn't a thing. There are millions of trailers that sit out in parking lots and such across the country, often unattended for days or weeks at a time. People interested in stealing things are interested in what's *in* the trailers, not ownership or insurance paperwork.
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  17. #37

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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Not so, the regulations were written BEFORE electronic or "digital" devices even existed that is why the regs DO NOT permit those as proper proof. An officer IS justified in seeking the originals. If you fail to produce the originals the officer "can" give you an infraction. All this does is compel that you show up for first appearance with the originals and the crown will dismiss the charges.

    But please don't provide misleading information to others that a "digital copy" is sufficient. it simply is not. I know I have issued tickets for this infraction, and also been in court when the JP found the offender guilty as originals were not presented. Reasoning being photocopies CAN be altered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevo View Post
    The law states that you must present proof of ownership, registration and insurance. It doesn't say that they have to be originals nor does it prohibit you showing that information electronically.


    I've been pulled over on my truck and motorcycle and have provided pictures on my phone for proof of ownership, registration and insurance.

    It is a terrible idea to keep that information in your vehicle, especially a motorcycle because should it be stolen, it would be easier for the thieves to misuse your information and identity.

    Furthermore, keeping the original proof of ownership outside your home is equally just as bad because somebody could forge your signature and claim you sold them the vehicle, as silly as that sounds.

    So you need to protect yourself by only having copies of this information, either on paper or on your electronic device and keeping it with you at all times so that you know you have it.


    Finally... unless the vehicle is new, or has been recently plated or insured, all of this information will be accessible by the officer that pulled you over so if you are polite and respectful, they will not issue you fix-it tickets and waste both your and the courts time with you showing up to court with the correct documents as they will know this information already and that you are legal.



    A police officer is exempt from having to tell you the truth which means they can lie to you about anything in hope that you incriminate yourself and make their job easier.

    That doesn't mean that what they say is what the law states.

    In the case of the passport, you must physically have that document the same as you must physically have your drivers license to which the law is very clear about those two pieces of documents.

    However, your vehicle registration, ownership and insurance do not share the same requirements and therefore can be presented in any manor, as copies or digitally.


    EDIT: I've been using photocopies of my registration, ownership and insurance for almost a decade and never had any problems when pulled over by police and in most recent years, I've been using digital copies because its easier and they can always verify the information on their computer anyway so the burden on me to present evidence of my reg, ownership and insurance was fulfilled.

  18. #38
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by hedo2002 View Post
    Not so, the regulations were written BEFORE electronic or "digital" devices even existed that is why the regs DO NOT permit those as proper proof. An officer IS justified in seeking the originals. If you fail to produce the originals the officer "can" give you an infraction. All this does is compel that you show up for first appearance with the originals and the crown will dismiss the charges.

    But please don't provide misleading information to others that a "digital copy" is sufficient. it simply is not. I know I have issued tickets for this infraction, and also been in court when the JP found the offender guilty as originals were not presented. Reasoning being photocopies CAN be altered.

    For starters, personal electronic and digital devices have been around since the 90's and maybe weren't as popular at the time but they did exist.

    Since you have professional experience with the matter, can you be more specific about the regulations you are quoting?

    You do know that the law is clear about what is written so unless it specifically states that you have to present originals (which in the case of commercial is ludicrous), you are interpreting the regulations incorrectly as I recall it states you have to provide evidence of the documents and there is nothing written specifically about them being originals. Imagine you pulled over a car that was being rented, would that person have access to the originals, of course not!

    The fact that you've issued tickets for this infraction is also ridiculous. Take no offense but you were probably having a bad day and you were taking it out on someone that presented proof of registration and insurance and just because they weren't the original copies, you decided to issue them a ticket which we both know was B.S. It must have been a really boring and slow day for you to do that or simply put, the person was being extremely rude and you wanted to teach them a lesson in which case, you still could have ticketed them for an actual real offense. You should know better.

    It doesn't surprise me that a Justice Of The Peace would find the offender guilty because traffic court is all about making money. As somebody that been there so many times, you should be familiar with the process.

    Lets just hypothetically say that you were stuck with a old beat up cruiser or department that is seriously lacking in funding and you (yourself) could not verify the information... You could always phone dispatch and they could verify it for you so you'd have been able to verify the ownership, registration and insurance so your whole photocopy argument is invalid.

    Please, if you still are a police officer, can you stop issuing tickets for B.S and wasting everybody's time just so that the Dept/County could make some money? Was that the whole reason you became a Police Officer? So you could pick on people for childish things and make money for your employer?

    I look forward to your reply Sir.


    Edit: I forgot to mention that Discretion is something that every police officer should exercise but there are many that just forget what that means because they get so power hungry. Maybe I just expect professionalism from every officer I talk to and that the stress of the job would not affect their judgment nor would they forget why they wanted to go into policing in the first place. Could also be that I've had too many interactions with officers that still enjoy their job even after over 20+ years on the force and want to have interaction with the public.
    Last edited by Nevo; 07-27-2018 at 08:29 PM.
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  19. #39
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevo View Post
    For starters, personal electronic and digital devices have been around since the 90's and maybe weren't as popular at the time but they did exist.

    Since you have professional experience with the matter, can you be more specific about the regulations you are quoting?

    You do know that the law is clear about what is written so unless it specifically states that you have to present originals (which in the case of commercial is ludicrous), you are interpreting the regulations incorrectly as I recall it states you have to provide evidence of the documents and there is nothing written specifically about them being originals. Imagine you pulled over a car that was being rented, would that person have access to the originals, of course not!

    The fact that you've issued tickets for this infraction is also ridiculous. Take no offense but you were probably having a bad day and you were taking it out on someone that presented proof of registration and insurance and just because they weren't the original copies, you decided to issue them a ticket which we both know was B.S. It must have been a really boring and slow day for you to do that or simply put, the person was being extremely rude and you wanted to teach them a lesson in which case, you still could have ticketed them for an actual real offense. You should know better.

    It doesn't surprise me that a Justice Of The Peace would find the offender guilty because traffic court is all about making money. As somebody that been there so many times, you should be familiar with the process.

    Lets just hypothetically say that you were stuck with a old beat up cruiser or department that is seriously lacking in funding and you (yourself) could not verify the information... You could always phone dispatch and they could verify it for you so you'd have been able to verify the ownership, registration and insurance so your whole photocopy argument is invalid.

    Please, if you still are a police officer, can you stop issuing tickets for B.S and wasting everybody's time just so that the Dept/County could make some money? Was that the whole reason you became a Police Officer? So you could pick on people for childish things and make money for your employer?

    I look forward to your reply Sir.


    Edit: I forgot to mention that Discretion is something that every police officer should exercise but there are many that just forget what that means because they get so power hungry. Maybe I just expect professionalism from every officer I talk to and that the stress of the job would not affect their judgment nor would they forget why they wanted to go into policing in the first place. Could also be that I've had too many interactions with officers that still enjoy their job even after over 20+ years on the force and want to have interaction with the public.
    You called him out. He won't reply.
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  20. #40
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    Re: Ownership and Insurance papers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Allistonfjr View Post
    You called him out. He won't reply.
    Hopefully he will for the sake of the discussion because I may have been a little harsh on him within regards to me calling him out but I also have friends in law enforcement and I can only hope that all police officers remember why they wanted to pursue law enforcement as a career from the perspective of serving the public and protecting the peace. Not making money for the dept/county and dealing with silly situations because they have the power to do so. It's frustrating because I understand its a job and there are politics involved followed by a lot of stressful situations and 12 hour shifts where many people they encounter are just garbage but that doesn't mean they have to behave like power-hungry robots and issue tickets. Last I checked, they were police officers who took an oath to protect the public and serve the peace, not traffic enforcement officers that were in it to issue B.S infractions and make money for the county instead of focusing on what's important and to be specific here would be that the vehicle has valid ownership, registration and insurance.

    EDIT: Are we back in elementary school? Is that really what it comes down to? Maybe I had a different upbringing and I value other people and their time.
    Last edited by Nevo; 07-27-2018 at 09:27 PM.
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