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Thread: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

  1. #21

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

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    OP, if you fail the re-test then you may want to consider another safety course because based on my experience, it can greatly reduce your insurance. Also, it is a surprise for me that you had so bad experience. I did my course recently and instructors clearly said that there are time restrictions for each exercise and we should try to match the speed of the demo rider and so on. Looks like you've chosen not the best guys for this course.. Hope you will get it sorted out!

  2. #22

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Damn, I didn't know you couldn't get a M1, M2 etc without a G license.
    I went to RTI and passed first time and with not much experience prior. You don't even need a speedometer during the test because you are always told to look up, not down. As for the speed, I just cruised not fast or slow.
    You can still ride with M1 but insurance needs the course to be required. Waiting another 60 days for highway riding or night riding is hard lol

  3. #23

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    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Max527 View Post
    Damn, I didn't know you couldn't get a M1, M2 etc without a G license.
    You can get Mx without G.

  4. #24
    roadrash's Avatar
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    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by GreyGhost View Post
    You can get Mx without G.
    Yup. I had G2M2 for a long time.

  5. #25
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    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Max527 View Post
    Damn, I didn't know you couldn't get a M1, M2 etc without a G license.
    You don't need a any form of G to get an M1.

    Good luck trying to get a refund. What school did you go with? The test is the same at every single one of them as it's Ministry regulated. And whether you were acting like a cocky dirt bike bro or not, that would have zero affect on your tests scores as instructors can't insert their feeling into your text marks. Also you fail at 12 demerit points.
    Not wearing gear while riding is like unprotected sex. Sooner or later you're going to get a rash!

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  6. #26

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon View Post
    You don't need a any form of G to get an M1.

    Good luck trying to get a refund. What school did you go with? The test is the same at every single one of them as it's Ministry regulated. And whether you were acting like a cocky dirt bike bro or not, that would have zero affect on your tests scores as instructors can't insert their feeling into your text marks. Also you fail at 12 demerit points.
    Yup, it was 12 at RTI for me. 3 demerit points because I was going too slow lol

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  7. #27
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    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    If i remember correctly, RTI allows up to 10 Points but they will pass you even if you get that many points. (I know because a fellow rider got that many and still passed).

    It comes down to if you are riding safe. That is ultimately what they are after and you are always entitled to a free re-test at a later date.
    17' Yamaha R3 ABS

  8. #28

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    11 you pass
    12 you fail

    No, it's quantitative, not qualitative. Hopefully you've been taught safe techniques (shoulder checks!), but that's not what you are tested on at this stage.

    Can you get from point A to B staying in the lines in a certain time and stop. Can you swerve on command. Can you stop on command. Can you stop in a corner.

    Lines matter, time matters (nothing is an emergency at 11 kms/hr), and stalling counts. You weren't taught that so don't do it.
    Last edited by meme; 07-13-2018 at 10:00 PM.

  9. #29

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by meme View Post
    I'd love to hear the instructors sides to this story
    As an instructor in a school, we don't fail students because of attitude. All class long we preach, "MID-RANGE SECOND GEAR". Every school I know of does the same. As long as you reach that, you're golden. The time requirements are actually exceptionally easy to reach. So unless you're totally dogging it, in every single drill, there's no way you'll fail on time requirements only.

    During the 2 hours of practice time before the actual "Display of motorcycle proficiency" we time students. If they're slow, we tell them to speed it up. On EVERY SINGLE DRILL.

    So, either the OP didn't pay attention to the actual schooling, or the instructors failed in their task.

    And yes, 11 is a pass, 12 is a fail, as prescribed by the MTO.


    At this point, I'll say there are 2 sides to every story - if the instructors in question could forward input, I'd be inclined to listen. Without that and more information, I can't condemn any school.


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  10. #30

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Taught the MSC for 15 years, kinda my point on hearing the instructors point of view...

  11. #31

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Do all schools remove the gauges ?
    Seems a bad idea to me, why not remove one of the brakes, clutch, gear shift or throttle as well :/ ?

    On the one hand, I can understand not wanting student's to fixate on them / "head down" (like a VFR plane pilot is also taught NOT to do (eyes out the window / head up).

    On the other hand since all street bikes require the gauges, I think they should be there for "cross checking", (every xx seconds like you'd be doing in the real world). And then the instructions would be "maintain XX km/hr +- ZZ km/hr.

    Without gauges, the "demo" rider should A) be riding the exercise before every test-student, not just B) once before all the students . Is it "A" or B" ?

  12. #32

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Think of the maintenance!

    These bikes are dropped so regularly it makes sense to pull off breakable parts.

    You are allowed to practice test, and instructors are there to coach your speed. Look up where you are heading, they will tell you whether you need to speed up (or down) to complete the exercise.

  13. #33

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Hey guys back here with an update. So I didn't mean for my post to become all about me and the instructor, it was more of a "what do I do now". Just to touch on it again though. No I wasn't cavalier with my riding, only reason I brought up dirt riding is bc we were asked to do intros and say if we had any bike experience. I'm actually very shy around new people and avoid anything that would make me stick out like that. There was no indication at all of what speed we should be going, just that we should be in 2nd. Again because of that I thought my speed was fine, there were definitely people who went my speed or slower. Saw various people put a foot down during corners etc and they got a pass. One guy was told he went too slow on one course and was told so and given a retry. I was specifically failed for going too slow, no sticking the leg out etc. No mention of what range of the gear we should have been in, like I said the only thing I was repeatedly told during the weekend was to bring the speed down a bit. Maybe I brought it down too much. To elaborate I'm not claiming he straight up failed me out of a personal bias, I'm just saying that the way things went down did make me feel like I was given the short end of the stick. But whatever. My mentality is that there is nothing in my power I can do about that outcome anymore, just try to move on.

    So as far as the licensing I went to my drivetest centre and they told me that I can't be given an extension, but I don't have to go through the 60 day waiting period. Phew. So I'll have to rewrite the m1 and I have my retest scheduled for the 29th. Good thing is I found out insurance companies will give you m2 rates if you have your test scheduled already. So I may be able to get up and riding as early as next week. So at least that useful tidbit of info came out of all of this, although it has yet to be put to the test lol.

    Thanks again for all the replies guys.

  14. #34
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    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Okay so I am a former Senior Instructor and Examiner at one of the colleges. There are 8 exercises that have to be completed. The 1st 5 are timed. The last 3 are tasks that must be completed and done at a specified speed range.

    So lets take the demerit structure of each exercise. (bear with me as I have not done a test for about 4 years so some times etc may be off a little)

    Ex. 1 & 2 (it is a combined exercise of 2 tasks) 1. Negotiate a tight right turn and 2. Accellerate through a curve. Timed exercise and must be completed within if I recall around 8 seconds. If you take longer demerits of 1,3 or 5 depending on how long you are over. You must stay within the lines. 3 points if tire touches a line and 5 if you go over the line. (during the turn you can get hit for this and then after the turn you can get hit for these points again since these are 2 tasks) And then the foot touching down I think is 1 point.

    So tight right turn you can get a possible max of 6 points if you go outside the line and touch a foot down. Accellerate withing a curve again you can get a max of 5 points for going outside the lines. And then the timing of the overall exercise you can get a max of 5 for going too slow.

    So right here max total points you can get 16 which is a fail right on exercise 1/2.

    Moving on to Ex. 3 and 4 again combined. Accellerate through a curve and come to a controlled stop within a box without skidding within a specified max time around 7 seconds. So accellerate through the curve (staying within the lines 3 demerits for a line touch and 5 if you go outside) Stop in the box (front wheel contact patch must be inside of the box anywhere but not touching the lines if not 5 demerits and a skid while stopping 1 demerit)

    So if you managed to stay under 11 in 1&2 in 3&4 you could get a max of 16 demerits in this exercise also resulting in failure.

    **The majority of demerits in 1, 2, 3 and 4 results from students going too slowly and getting time demerits. This is why when these exercises are explained you are told to accellerate quickly and smothly through the curve. No mention of an actual speed, these curves are designed to simulate a bike leaving a stop sign and getting up to road speed on the street and demonstarting you can tranition from bicycle steering to push steering as the speed increasses. As long as you smoothly accellerate in 1st gear through the curve you will be under the time but if you just get moving and putter along the curve without accellerating you will get hit for time demerits.

    Ex. 5 Accellerate through a decreasing radius curve. Again a times exercise and you must stay within the lines. 5 if you go outside the lines and timed 1, 3 or 5 depending on how slow you went. This is a Quick one you only have if I remember 1.6 seconds to do it. The rider starts from a line and when they hit the line at beginning of the curve time starts and stops at line at end of the curve. Failures in this one are usually inability to push steer while accellerating in the curve and going outside the lines and or too slow and not actually going fast enough to reach push steering speed. Max points in this one 10.

    Now if you have managed to get this far most will pass but no guarantees. The last 3 all involve going down a straightaway at a speed of 25 to 33 km/h which all weekend we teach students that this is easily obtained by being in 2nd gear and just a hint of throttle. Going too fast and you succeed on the execise all good no demerits move on too fast abd blow it you get a do over (I disagree with that but those are the rules). To slow you have 1 chance to do it over and if you are too slow again full demerits for not completing the task. Speed within 25-33 kph range and you complete the tasks great no points move on. The speed limit on these is simply a range of speed that the task was designed to be performed at. Going faster makes it much harder and going below the speed means you are not demonstrating you can actually perform the task.

    So Ex. 6 When signalled perform an emergency stop within the specified distance. Stop past the cones 5 demerits no points for skidding you just have to get it done.

    Ex 7 Emergency Swerve. When signalled swerve to the left or right and pass through the gate denoted by the pylons. Cut to the inside or outside of the pylons or swerve in wrong direction 5 demerits.

    Ex 8 Stop in a curve. When signalled top the bike in the curve staying within the lines and not passing the end. Go outside lines 5 demerits or pass the end 5 demerits again no points for skids. Hint though if you go outside the lines but still stop before the actual end of the turn you only lose the 5 for going outside the lines! So since this one has a max of 10 demerits if you were clean with 0 demerits up to her you could in theory blow it completly and still pass! (but you don't know what you have for points so this is not recommended!)

    So all in all there is something like 62 possible demerits in total. You pass if you have 11 or less, go over 11 fail. Also a crash or dropping the bike during the test is an automatic failure.

    2012 Triumph Speed Triple R
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  15. #35

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by mstram View Post
    Do all schools remove the gauges ?
    Seems a bad idea to me, why not remove one of the brakes, clutch, gear shift or throttle as well :/ ?

    On the one hand, I can understand not wanting student's to fixate on them / "head down" (like a VFR plane pilot is also taught NOT to do (eyes out the window / head up).

    On the other hand since all street bikes require the gauges, I think they should be there for "cross checking", (every xx seconds like you'd be doing in the real world). And then the instructions would be "maintain XX km/hr +- ZZ km/hr.

    Without gauges, the "demo" rider should A) be riding the exercise before every test-student, not just B) once before all the students . Is it "A" or B" ?
    These are, for the most part, complete beginner riders. If the gauges are there, each and every single one are too busy looking down at them all the time. Honestly, what can they tell you, in a parking lot at speeds no more than 25 kmh? As you mentioned, they simply fixate on them and lose attention to everything else going on around them.

    As for demo riders, we demo each and every drill, multiple times before letting the students practice them. If the students are doing something wrong, we correct them. This happens many times over the weekend. The students know exactly what we expect of them.


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    - Albert Einstein or Alexandre Dumas or Elbert Hubbard.. take your pick.

  16. #36

    Re: Failed my m1 exit test, m1 about to expire...

    Quote Originally Posted by taximan62 View Post
    Okay so I am a former Senior Instructor and Examiner at one of the colleges...
    Thanks for taking the time for the detailed write up. All very useful information. I can see the technical reason of why I was failed given your explanations of the timing.

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