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  1. #41

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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

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    Correct Violating "authority to drive" under the insurance Act is NOT the same as being "disqualified" Disqualified is a term strictly for use with the HTA. Therefore, the OP WOULD have violated 4(1) as he was "authorized" to operate that class of vehicle, with the class of licence he held at the time. Apples to Oranges. So he wasn't in fact Authorized to operate the vehicle but he was NOT disqualified, from operating the vehicle. If he were, indeed disqualified, the charge laid would be operate motor vehicle while suspended... I have written that ticket more than a few times..lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Throttle WFO View Post
    Section 8 of the OAP-1 lists statutory conditions. OP would have violated 4(1) - authority to drive:

    "The insured shall not drive or permit any other person to drive or operate the automobile unless the insured or other person is authorized by law to drive or operate it."

    OP did not have authority to drive on a 400 series highway. He is not qualified to operate a motorcycle on the highway.



    OP cannot be covered under DCPD because DCPD requires you to be not-at-fault for the accident.

    Since OP has breached a statutory condition, liability exposure becomes limited to the minimum legal amounts ($200,000) to which his insurer will pay, and collect from OP.



    The OP's license is not in effect when he rides his bike on the 400 series highway. There's no two ways about it.

    233 (1) of the Insurance Act of Ontario - Where:


    (b) the insured contravenes a term of the contract or commits a fraud, a claim by the insured is invalid and the right of the insured to recover indemnity is forfeited.


    This includes first-party and third-party indemnification. so in this case, the OP cannot make a claim for damages on his own vehicle (via Collision coverage), and cannot look to his insurer to defend him for third-party damages (via Liability coverage).

  2. #42

    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    So would you help him or watch him drown? figuratively speaking

  3. #43

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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLSTC View Post
    OP can make an offer to the other party to personally pay for their damage. Then they may fall under this:

    Insurers can no longer use a minor at-fault accident that occurs on or after June 1, 2016 meeting certain criteria to increase your premiums. The criteria include that no payment has been made by any insurer, that there are no injuries, and that damages to each car and property were less than $2,000 per car and were paid by the at-fault driver. This provision is limited to one minor accident every three years.

    As the report is on file, the insurer may still decide to cancel the policy due to this collision occurring during a violation of license conditions.
    What about the paying up being an admission of guilt? Then a month later the whiplash sets in.

  4. #44
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by nobbie48 View Post
    What about the paying up being an admission of guilt? Then a month later the whiplash sets in.
    There's pretty much no escaping the guilt, both the HTA as well as the insurance fault determination rules pretty much puts you squarely 100% at fault whenever you run into the back of another vehicle.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLSTC View Post
    OP can make an offer to the other party to personally pay for their damage. Then they may fall under this:

    Insurers can no longer use a minor at-fault accident that occurs on or after June 1, 2016 meeting certain criteria to increase your premiums. The criteria include that no payment has been made by any insurer, that there are no injuries, and that damages to each car and property were less than $2,000 per car and were paid by the at-fault driver. This provision is limited to one minor accident every three years.

    As the report is on file, the insurer may still decide to cancel the policy due to this collision occurring during a violation of license conditions.
    God I love Ontario. So even when paying out of my pocket there is still a limit to 1 minor accident every 3 years? Hahaha what a joke. Also how in hell can the government allow us and promote us to pay out of our pockets for accidents when we pay an insurance company for exactly to avoid doing this?

  6. #46
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    God I love Ontario. So even when paying out of my pocket there is still a limit to 1 minor accident every 3 years? Hahaha what a joke. Also how in hell can the government allow us and promote us to pay out of our pockets for accidents when we pay an insurance company for exactly to avoid doing this?
    Paying out of your pocket doesn’t mean the accident magically didn’t happen.

    Insurance companies base coverage on risk. If you had an at fault accident you’ve proven to be higher risk.

    I consider this allowance to be a huge plus, don’t knock it.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    This thread has opened lots of eyes. OP if you can still claim pain and suffering you might as well do it and milk this. You are screwed for the next 7 years anyways. Make a back injury claim and don't work for the next 3 years. You should get yourself checked out by a chiropractor and he can attest that you are indeed injured. Some injuries don't appear until days or weeks after an accident

  8. #48

    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    This thread has opened lots of eyes. OP if you can still claim pain and suffering you might as well do it and milk this. You are screwed for the next 7 years anyways. Make a back injury claim and don't work for the next 3 years. You should get yourself checked out by a chiropractor and he can attest that you are indeed injured. Some injuries don't appear until days or weeks after an accident

    And this type of scamming is a major reason why we pay high insurance costs...
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  9. #49
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by 250R-ICE View Post
    And this type of scamming is a major reason why we pay high insurance costs...
    Yep. 1000x this.

    Complains about insurance companies in previous response in same thread, suggests defrauding insurance companies in very next reply.
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  10. #50
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    God I love Ontario. So even when paying out of my pocket there is still a limit to 1 minor accident every 3 years? Hahaha what a joke. Also how in hell can the government allow us and promote us to pay out of our pockets for accidents when we pay an insurance company for exactly to avoid doing this?
    these are good questions
    some of the older members will recall a time
    when auto insurance was optional

    then the Ins. Co's cried to make it mandatory
    seems injury settlements didn't fit into the profit picture

    so the 2 whore groups got together
    and came up the Compulsory....blah, blah, blah...

    compulsory profit
    and unloading of health costs (accident benefits)
    to the sucker: consumer, rate payer, constituent

  11. #51
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by 250R-ICE View Post
    And this type of scamming is a major reason why we pay high insurance costs...
    Yeah thats the myth and lies they want us to believe. Insurance rates are high because the government is in bed with these guys and gives protection to this racket. The state of Florida has more motorcycle fatalities and injuries than Ontario yet their rates are around $600 a year. Same goes with condos and houses. Dont insult my intelligence.

    P.S. so claiming genuine injuries is now scamming insurance companies? For all we know OP might have injuries he doesnt even knows of, or simply ignores with the hopes his insurance company will have mercy on him.
    Last edited by Pegassus; 07-02-2018 at 11:19 PM.

  12. #52
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    Yeah thats the myth and lies they want us to believe.
    No, the stats are out there if you'd take a few seconds to actually investigate it instead of just jumping to conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    Insurance rates are high because the government is in bed with these guys and gives protection to this racket.
    Uh huh. Well, maybe Dougie will fix that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    The state of Florida has more motorcycle fatalities and injuries than Ontario yet their rates are around $600 a year.
    Many cheap US policies also have tiny liability coverage amounts and exclusions big enough to drive a semi through. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. There are lot of Americans who were involved in accidents and then found out the hard way that their "cheap" insurance was a prime example of "you get what you pay for" and subsequently lost everything including their house, belongings, and retirement savings when they got sued.

    Again, these stories are not hard to find, Google it.

    The insurance companies also have numbers of scale to work with that help spread the costs to achieve these low rates, even on more expensive policies that may actually include decent real world coverages - where do you think there's more registered motorcycles, Ontario, or the southern US states?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    P.S. so claiming genuine injuries is now scamming insurance companies?
    Your response was clearly suggestive that he "create" an injury - jeezus, you suggest people not "insult your intelligence" when you say things like "Make a back injury claim and don't work for 3 years" and "pain and suffering" in response to the fact that he's gonna have a minor claim anyways, so "might as well milk it", in your own words?

    Do you even read what you type before you post it sometimes?
    Last edited by PrivatePilot; 07-03-2018 at 07:28 AM.
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  13. #53

    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    Yeah thats the myth and lies they want us to believe. Insurance rates are high because the government is in bed with these guys and gives protection to this racket. The state of Florida has more motorcycle fatalities and injuries than Ontario yet their rates are around $600 a year. Same goes with condos and houses. Dont insult my intelligence.

    P.S. so claiming genuine injuries is now scamming insurance companies? For all we know OP might have injuries he doesnt even knows of, or simply ignores with the hopes his insurance company will have mercy on him.
    Lol.. I never insulted your intelligence you did by the statement you made...

    I'm not an expert on how insurance works in the US. But I think it's totally different than here. Sure insurance is cheap. But so is the coverage. If you have a basic cheap policy. I doubt the coverage is any good. Especially for medical care. Then you have to resort to suing the other party if they are at fault. Good luck trying to get huge amount of medical costs recovered from someone who has next to nothing...

    I think our insurance system is not working in our best interest also. But suggesting you scam them doesn't help the situation either..
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  14. #54
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    oh come on spare me the rubbish there ain't no difference between Florida and Ontario, dead bodies and Twisted motorcycles are pickup from highways in both places so don't give me that. And don't come with me with that story about the payouts being bigger in Ontario just recently they change the laws you cannot get that much money off insurance now So we are getting little payouts just like Florida but paying 8x times more here in Ontario.

    One of you asked me if Florida has more fatalities than Ontario... Jesus Christ even the question is preposterous Florida has 11 months of riding and they have no helmet laws so what do you think? C'mon man......
    Last edited by Pegassus; 07-03-2018 at 12:34 PM.

  15. #55
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    oh come on spare me the rubbish there ain't no difference between Florida and Ontario, dead bodies and Twisted motorcycles are pickup from highways in both places so don't give me that.
    A dead motorcyclist (after a wreck) is more or less insurance companies "ideal" outcome. Dead people don't need lengthy hospital stays, months or years of physiotherapy, and possibly a lifetime of support (medical or financial) afterwards.

    It's the ones who survive who quickly find out how good (or not) their insurance is. Yes, our insurance system here isn't perfect, but its FAR better than many/most US policies.

    And since you seem to want to ignore the very real world stories out there about Americans who lost their entire lives after a MVA, here's some stories for you to read, many of which involve people who are being sued for amounts beyond their coverage limits.

    Again, a lot of US insurance policies are basically nearly junk, simply fulfilling the legal obligation to *have* insurance, but being functionally a joke.

    Coming back to this side of the border, the minimum legal liability coverage is $250,000 although pretty much every insurer won't write for less than $1,000,000 anymore, with $2,000,000 being a cheap upgrade.

    This covers you with few worries. The same cannot be said for many Americans in the same situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegassus View Post
    And don't come with me with that story about the payouts being bigger in Ontario just recently they change the laws you cannot get that much money off insurance now So we are getting little payouts just like Florida but paying 8x times more here in Ontario.
    I think you're mistaking payouts for your own medical care with a tort case brought on by the other party in an accident. Yes, accident benefits may be reduced here (but are still usually FAR and above better vs USA policies), but that's entirely different from someone else deciding to sue you after the fact. That's where the liability thing comes into play.

    One of you asked me if Florida has more fatalities than Ontario... Jesus Christ even the question is preposterous Florida has 11 months of riding and they have no helmet laws so what do you think? C'mon man......[/QUOTE]

    Again, you've just blatantly disregarded my comment about markets of scale.

    Florida has 582,000 registered motorcycles as of the latest stats I can find, 2016.

    Ontario has 219,000 total registered motorcycles as of 2017. There's some debate about how many of those are still on the road at that, with some estimates suggesting perhaps 50% at most.

    So, florida has almost 3 times as many motorcycles for insurance companies to spread the risk across, assuming (probably safely) that a higher number of those total number of registered motorcycles are actually still in regular use, which makes sense given a 12 month riding season vs our 6.

    More accidents, sure, but that's a function of between 3 to 6 times as many vehicles on the road, but statistically insurance company almost certainly sees a lower percentage of claims in general because of the size of the market.

    Our entire country has only 720,000 registered motorcycles. For comparison, the state of California alone has more than that!

    You can stick your head in the sand, or you can refuse to believe facts simply because they don't fit your preconceived ideas, but it doesn't mean that they still aren't facts.
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  16. #56

    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Can we not derail this thread with what's been happening in the last few posts please?

    This is a hugely valuable lesson for those that would wantonly break the rules. It should be cleaned up and stickied and used as an example, especially for new riders looking to cut a few corners in their path to a full license.
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  17. #57

    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Just headed out on the water now for a day, but I think Peggy has the biggest fish on for this week.

    To the OP, pay to play is what I'm in agreement on.
    It's gonna cost, either lawyers, insurance or both.

  18. #58
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    does anyone else find it odd that the op rear ended a car and didn't get some kind of ticket for that in addition to the m1/hwy ticket? I wonder if the op is offering up full disclosure to the thread.

    op- sorry to hear about your situation. In the rain..... Im wondering if you had abs? just curious.
    Last edited by boyoboy; 07-04-2018 at 11:30 AM.
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  19. #59
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trials View Post
    You blew it about as bad as anybody I have ever read about. Seriously should consider getting into dirt bikes and at least by the time you are allowed to get another learner permit you will at least know how to ride the things.
    man thats harsh lol. nope, it could have been way worse - he wasn't impaired.
    He could continue to upgrade his m license - just borrow or rent a bike for the tests?
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  20. #60
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    Re: Insurance Void if Riding on Highway on M1?

    Quote Originally Posted by psacawa View Post
    F*** me. Thank you for the advice, guys, I'll update with how my talk with insurance goes tomorrow.
    Hey.... these guys are drama queens they are making it look as if you killed an entire family while drunk. You bumped someone in the highway with a M1 licence, big deal. Go to RedLight or Xcopper and fight your way. Also try to delay the trial for a year and ride as much as you can while your insurance doesnt yet rise up. Milk them.

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